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betty
11-15-2011, 06:21 AM
Wondering how many are using MS-SQL or MySQL and why did you make that decision?

Davidk
11-15-2011, 07:59 AM
I use both but if I had to choose one I'd go with MySQL. MySQL is robust, it has great tools, it works, and it's free. MSSQL is Microsoft and I haven't been happy with them since they released a deadly Access run-time and refused to fix it for six months. It cost developers quite a bit to roll back their systems. Couldn't even get an explanation from MS. I'd been working with Access as a front end since V1.0 but no more... that's how I found Alpha 5.

gdcorp
11-15-2011, 08:07 AM
Betty:

I decided quite some time ago to use PostgreSQL instead on MS-SQL or MySQL. I wanted open source with the ability to distribute applications without any licensing costs (still required is some cases with MySQL). I preferred the transaction abilities in PostgreSQL and the replication abilities (beginning in version 9). My research showed that PostgreSQL had better data integrity, adherence to the SQL standards, better database security and database compression than MySQL. I am a strong believer in open source and would pick MySQL over MS-SQL for the applications which I write if I could not choose PostgreSQL.

Brad

Steve Wood
11-15-2011, 10:26 AM
I strongly dislike working in MS-SQL, even though I know others make it their preference. From my experience, MS-SQL overly complicates the process; example:

- you add an innocent field like Flag1, type smallint and later decide to change it to a field type BIT. But MS will have created a Dependancy on that field (even though it is not involved in any relationship) disallowing you to delete or modify its type. Now I am sure it does not do this without reason, but I can't figure it out. In order to change the field type you have to use MS-Studio (not Navicat) to remove the dependancy. But your whole database becomes full of these restricted fields making it difficult to move forward. Again, I am positive it is doing this for some good reason.

- Creating a remote connection between my local computer is much more complex for MS than for MY.

There are other reasons I find MS to be more difficult to work with than MY. But mostly you need a database you feel comfortable with or have previous experience. Each are a little different.
I am sure a MS user will point out its benefits, I find it annoying and in my way compared to MySQL.

gaby_h
11-15-2011, 12:23 PM
Coming from dbf, I was in the same dilemma a few weeks ago. I started with Mysql, played with for a while then decided to try MS SQL Express. First I had to download tons of updates to please SQL Express, then the installation was much more complicated, then felt my system got slower. Played with SQL Express for a while and missed the simplicity of Mysql. Uninstalled SQL Express, clean up my registry and went back to Mysql.

Fisher
11-15-2011, 02:38 PM
- you add an innocent field like Flag1, type smallint and later decide to change it to a field type BIT. But MS will have created a Dependancy on that field (even though it is not involved in any relationship) disallowing you to delete or modify its type. Now I am sure it does not do this without reason, but I can't figure it out. In order to change the field type you have to use MS-Studio (not Navicat) to remove the dependancy. But your whole database becomes full of these restricted fields making it difficult to move forward. Again, I am positive it is doing this for some good reason.



Steve if I understand you correct you are not allowed to change datatype in a table. This is a new feature in SQL2008 and is enabled by default. If you want to disable this "protection" uncheck option Prevent saving changes that require table re-creation in MS SQL Server Management Studio under Tools | Options | Designers | Table and Database Designers.

Steve Wood
11-15-2011, 03:01 PM
Slavko, Thanks I will do that. I can't just say No to MS because some of my client demand it. But again a look at relative complexity over MYSQL - I use Navicat for both MYSQL and MSSQL. On the MYSQL side something like Permission is pretty straight forward. For MSSQL it is multiple layers thicker, more complex, more options. My real problem - I don't know it well enough to ensure I am doing it right. I don't want to screw up something as important as permissions, and MS is many times more complex than MYSQL, at least looking at Navicat's interface to it.

iRadiate
11-15-2011, 03:09 PM
Steve if I understand you correct you are not allowed to change datatype in a table. This is a new feature in SQL2008 and is enabled by default. If you want to disable this "protection" uncheck option Prevent saving changes that require table re-creation in MS SQL Server Management Studio under Tools | Options | Designers | Table and Database Designers.

I got stumped by that one too until I did some digging on the internet. It's a good thing to know.
We use MS SQL here because it is our facility standard. So, basically I use it because I have to. I personally have no issues with it and I'm comfortable using it.

Stephen

Fisher
11-15-2011, 03:19 PM
I agree with you. I on the other side trying to start using MySQL, but I'm afraid so I won't leave some hole open because i don't know it enough. The best is if you know both, because once will be more appropriate 1st and other time 2nd database.

But I have a Q regarding of a definition of word "free" in MySQL? Is that really free? I think I read somewhere that is free only for personal use. So how we can use it then for business purposes? MS SQL Express edition on the other side is really free, but it has limits on allowed memory and other things.

You also mention Navicat. I heard for that tool first here on that forum. Can you design database with Navicat like you can for example with TOAD Data Modeler by Quest?

Steve Wood
11-15-2011, 03:39 PM
You also mention Navicat. I heard about that tool first here on the forum. Can you design database with Navicat like you can for example with TOAD Data Modeler by Quest?
Yes, Navicat is very good for managing tables, view, procedures, queries, etc., and for keeping local and remote dbs in sync as needed, import/export and database documentation. It does have a data modeler as of latest version. I think their data modeler is lacking some features and I use ERD Concepts instead.

Fisher
11-15-2011, 03:56 PM
Can you create with Navicat scripts which will know how to modify existing tables in the database which already contain data? For example, like you mention before, you change data type on a field or add/change relations on live database.

Steve Wood
11-15-2011, 04:15 PM
Navicat is just a proxy for managing the database. You can create queries, procedures, functions -- anything else that the database allows. But you are really creating those directly on the database, using Navicat to make it a little easier. I say easier, but in the area of Triggers and Stored Procedures, Navicat doesn't do much to make it easier. You still have to know SQL syntax and structure.

Fisher
11-15-2011, 04:26 PM
Thanks, Steve. I just downloaded a trial version and I will explore it. If I will have more Q's about it I will ask in a new thread.

asawyer13
11-15-2011, 07:22 PM
MS SQL will have a bigger memory/CPU footprint than MySQL will, but it's very powerful, and can be used on huge databases.

MySQL can generally be free for the Community Edition and is very good. There is also MariaDB which is a drop in replacement for MySQL and also free.

Postgresql is free also.

There is HeidiSQL which is similar to Navicat and SQLYog but is free. I happen to use SQLYog because I wanted the Schema and data sync capabilities.

Triggers in MS SQL and MySQL are very powerful to be able to add business logic in the database instead of programming, but the syntax between MS SQL, MySQL and Postgresql for triggers is totally different, but very much worth learning.

Alan

DoronF
12-07-2011, 01:15 PM
Hello There,

I would rather use a none free products since I found out that for the long run it cost me more time to do certain things and get certain features. I am using heavily MS SQL and like the idea of a Clustered Index where I can move hundreds of GB in less than an hour. See my article in here: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog/2011/1/14/processing-hundreds-of-millions-records-got-much-easier.aspx
I am using data modeling for the last 13 years that really creates all stored procedures locally and then I can update the server whenever I am ready. This is the tool at: http://www.xCase.com

Regards,

Doron

The Farber Consulting Group, Inc.
http://www.dfarber.com
Blog: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog.aspx

Ted Giles
12-10-2011, 06:30 PM
I don't believe that MySQL is free to distribute, if you are building and distributing applications.
There is a thread about bundling MySQL with Alpha. The Community Edition is not usually for commercial use.

Steve Wood
12-11-2011, 02:00 AM
MySQL, for anything any of us are going to use it for, is free. That includes if you use it to back end a commercial application that you sell for profit. It runs under the "GPL" license, and you only must pay for a commercial license if a) you alter the MySQL code in order to work with your commercial product, or b) you embed MySQL into your product making the source code non-accessible. We are not distributing or embedding MySQL, we are simply using it, and it is free under those conditions.

betty
12-11-2011, 03:05 AM
Well; all that licensing stuff is confusing.

I looked at Postgres for all of the reasons that Brad mentions in Post #3; and now and then I keep looking back at it. I have not encountered it very often so chose to not go that way.

I considered MS-SQL because in my corporate life (where I am a Progress DBA), MS-SQL is the database of choice, it's the one that I frequently have to interface to (from Progress) and the applications that I support there are moving to MS-SQL. In my life as a small business owner who is also a MS partner, I should probably get certified on that. So choosing MS-SQL could have killed a few birds.

I chose mySQL because it is the one that I see behind 99% of the web apps that I have ever looked at, it's the one that the guys working for me are using, and I can't believe that all of the freelancers in the world are paying for it. It's a little scary because it's owned by Oracle now who is just as corporate as Microsoft and subject to making the same corporate decisions.

Is it any wonder my head hurts?

So there's my answer for now; I chose MySQL because everyone else uses it and it sounds like that's the majority answer here too. And because it is different from what I am used to.

Not the best answer I know.

Ted Giles
12-11-2011, 05:24 AM
http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/alphaforum/showthread.php?95504-SQL-Move-Database
See Post #8 Steve.
Do you disagree or is this incorrect?

DoronF
12-11-2011, 11:57 AM
Hello Betty,

MIcroSoft has a free version which is called MS SQL Express and you can download it from here: http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=23650 and if you have 32 bits OS then use this file in that link: SQLEXPRWT_x86_ENU.exe
Also you can find Books On Line for MS SQL in here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms130214.aspx
If you are located in the USA then there are many developers that are using MS SQL , and you can get all the help you need from here: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/categories

Hope you can make sense of that. :grin:

Regards,

Doron

The Farber Consulting Group, Inc.
http://www.dfarber.com
Blog: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog.aspx

gregincolumbus
01-08-2015, 11:45 AM
Doron,

I know this is an old thread…but I am considering Xcase as my modeling software. Are you still using it? What is the support like from the developer? Anytime I have emailed them with a pre-sales question I never hear back from them. That makes me a little nervous to give them my money, but the product looks good.

Thanks
Greg

DoronF
01-08-2015, 12:20 PM
Hello Greg,

I am using xCase for my database design and it is my right hand tool. I don't leave home without it.:grin: Right now it is version 10.1 and I was actually their beta tester when they moved from version 9 to 10. Don't have any problem with their tech support. I highly recommend it and can be found here: http://www.xCase.com

Regards,

Doron
The Farber Consulting Group, Inc.

Main Web Site: http://www.dFarber.com
MS SQL Blog: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog.aspx
Convert Ms Access to Web (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/convert-access-to-web.aspx)
Custom Software Development (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/custom-software-development.aspx)
Alpha Five Development (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/alpha-five-developer.aspx)
No Interest Loans Application (http://www.dfarber.com/products/no-interest-loan.aspx)
MS SQL Remote DBA (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/mssql-server/ms-sql-remote-dba-services.aspx)

gregincolumbus
01-08-2015, 12:29 PM
Thanks Doran,

I appreciate such a glowing recommendation from a long time user!

Since they value your opinion, you may want to pass along my concern on their pre-sales support. I tried to download the trial and all worked fine….except….the download was the full version, so it was asking for a license key, etc. I emailed them 5 days ago regarding that and have not heard from them.

Previously I had another question regarding the differences in the versions they offer, etc…..after 4 emails that went unanswered, I finally called them.

Sounds like a great product…..but their pre-sales support (or lack thereof) may cost them sales from otherwise eager customers.

Thanks again!

Greg

DoronF
01-08-2015, 12:45 PM
Hello Greg,

Use this email (eli@xCase.com) for the owner of xCase and tell him that Doron Farber sent you there.:grin:

Regards,

Doron
The Farber Consulting Group, Inc.

Main Web Site: http://www.dFarber.com
MS SQL Blog: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog.aspx
Convert Ms Access to Web (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/convert-access-to-web.aspx)
Custom Software Development (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/custom-software-development.aspx)
Alpha Five Development (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/alpha-five-developer.aspx)
No Interest Loans Application (http://www.dfarber.com/products/no-interest-loan.aspx)
MS SQL Remote DBA (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/mssql-server/ms-sql-remote-dba-services.aspx)

DaveM
01-08-2015, 12:51 PM
Greg,
Just take a look here. and then "top ten features" on left lower blue button.
https://www.webyog.com/#

Lot less money if it will help you.
Mostly, I prefer MySQL/Mariadb due to it being able to set it on any platform.

gregincolumbus
01-08-2015, 12:58 PM
Thanks Doron…..will definitely do so!

gregincolumbus
01-08-2015, 12:59 PM
David,

Thanks for the link…will look into it more…price is certainly less!

THANKS!

DoronF
01-08-2015, 01:50 PM
Hi David,

We are talking about data modelling tool to design your database. Are you using their tool for database design?

Regards,

Doron
The Farber Consulting Group, Inc.

Main Web Site: http://www.dFarber.com
MS SQL Blog: http://www.dfarber.com/computer-consulting-blog.aspx
Convert Ms Access to Web (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/convert-access-to-web.aspx)
Custom Software Development (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/custom-software-development.aspx)
Alpha Five Development (http://www.dfarber.com/website-design-development/alpha-five-developer.aspx)
No Interest Loans Application (http://www.dfarber.com/products/no-interest-loan.aspx)
MS SQL Remote DBA (http://www.dfarber.com/microsoft-solutions/mssql-server/ms-sql-remote-dba-services.aspx)

DaveM
01-08-2015, 01:51 PM
Take a look where I sent him. You be the judge.

Edited: I use a different tool that was around many years before they were(XCASE). But it is different for me. I use Print Shop deluxe to design my databases and flow completely. Then put it into practice on alpha for dbf and/or sqlyog for MySQL.

Printshop and a calculator gives me relevance to growth per table. Not hard and very quick to about 100.00.

Ted Giles
01-08-2015, 03:58 PM
I use Visual Paradigm Community Edition. Free.
Best one I have come across in years.