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HUGE security problem in A5 web security :shocked:

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  • #16
    Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

    OK so your SQL database/table is not encrypted & simply stores the encrypted string Alpha generated as "plain text". What's the fuzz ?
    Frank

    Tell me and I'll forget; show me and I may remember; involve me and I'll understand

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    • #17
      Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

      Originally posted by GGandhi View Post
      it does here. as I said you need the key first, guessing 64 character key is rather difficult, I hope.
      The point is that if you have a table with a lot of passwords and a lot of them are repeated, you could predict that it is one of the most common passwords like "1234", "Password1" etc. From this point you could calculate the key and from that point you have all passwords in the table..

      If someone gets access to your tables you are in big trouble anyway, but it is your own problem. If someone steals your user's details your problem is not only on your hacked server, you might have several other people running after you as well (including your clients if you develop apps for other companies).
      As I understand it this would NOT be a security problem for hacking your alpha anywhere aaplication, but a multiplied headache if/when someone does. Servers are getting hacked every day, it is normally not that hard if someone decides to do it (which probably is a very small risk).

      The main thing is that this is a risk I can't take, and I think I should not have to take when there are other methods out there.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

        Ok, I tried it on another db and it did decrypt there - what the fuzz?
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


        • #19
          Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

          Originally posted by eskimoavenue View Post
          The main thing is that this is a risk I can't take, and I think I should not have to take when there are other methods out there.
          I don't disagree. Alpha needs to takes this seriously and address this issue. You should email them with your findings.
          Peter
          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

          Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


          Comment


          • #20
            Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

            By the way, you can try this to see if you get the password in clear text, it seems like we have different results from different people.

            ?a5_decrypt_string("YOUR ENCRYPTED PASSWORD GOES HERE","YOUR KEY GOES HERE")

            According to Alpha they use salted passwords so there might just be something wrong with my site, but if the function above works the passwords is not salted (as far as I understand it) as salted passwords can not be retrieved even if you have the key. That is why on some sites you get a new password sent to you if you forget it, they simply can't retrieve the original one.

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            • #21
              Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

              I forgot to mention I test on A5v11 3788-4187. Where did you see mention of salted passwords?
              Andrew

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              • #22
                Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                Originally posted by aschone View Post
                I forgot to mention I test on A5v11 3788-4187. Where did you see mention of salted passwords?
                I am using V12.3 build 2614

                Salted passwords was mentioned in separate email from alpha, will keep you posted, I am still a bit worried that all I say here is just an over reaction of something I don't fully understand...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                  I went back to my 1st db, added a new user through the web security dialog on the desktop. It added the user and encrypted the pwd to the sql table.

                  Ran the decrypt function and it will not decrypt.

                  So why can I decrypt on one, but not the other? Something doesn't add up?
                  Peter
                  AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                  Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
                  https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                    For reasons that should be obvious, we will not post details concerning the internal design of the web security system. If you select to allow the system to build an encryption key for a new project, it will create a 12 character key, which is what we recommend.

                    If you think you have found a flaw, please communicate with us privately and we will examine the issue and make any suggestions.

                    We will be happy to work with anyone who has a security concern.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                      Originally posted by aschone View Post
                      I created a new user, assigned a password, copied the encrypted password from the SQL table, and feed it into a5_decrypt_string() along with the encryption key stored in the Security settings.

                      Yes, it successfully decrypted the password for me.
                      I'm curious. How did you imagine an outside force is getting access to that sql table? I understand that YOU can open it and cut and paste, but how would an attacker?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                        Originally posted by Clint2 View Post
                        I'm curious. How did you imagine an outside force is getting access to that sql table? I understand that YOU can open it and cut and paste, but how would an attacker?
                        If I may answer your question with another question. If there is no concern of an attacker getting access to that SQL table/data why encrypt the password to begin with?
                        Andrew

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                          Originally posted by aschone View Post
                          If I may answer your question with another question. If there is no concern of an attacker getting access to that SQL table/data why encrypt the password to begin with?
                          Despite your reluctance to answer my question, I'll be a sport and answer yours. If you can't protect via firewall, server passwords, locked doors, trustworthy employees, etc., access to your sql data, it's time to unplug your LAN cable and bone up on telepathy.

                          But wait, there's more.

                          Decrypting a password with knowledge of the key! concerns you. We'll ignore who gave them the key for now. Why not add two factor authentication via sms to the pre-confirmed user's cell phone (just like Google does). Then, having your password known becomes significantly less useful. You do use two factor authentication in your own email, right?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                            Not sure why you decided to attack me. A concern was posted and I tested said concern and relayed my findings. I was not aware that doing so would result in such a negative response.

                            Looking at the entities who have had their data compromised and published to on the internet I believe that they have utilized all of these safeguards that you are advocating. Yet their data was still compromised.

                            This discussion was revolving around Alpha5 securing the password using a reversible encryption method instead of a one way hash with a salt. If you wish to contribute to this then by all means please do.
                            Andrew

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                              I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. If there's an issue with security then letting Alpha know about it quietly should have been the only course... not blabbing it here. It was irresponsible to do so and only hurts the Alpha community.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                                Originally posted by Davidk View Post
                                I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread. If there's an issue with security then letting Alpha know about it quietly should have been the only course... not blabbing it here. It was irresponsible to do so and only hurts the Alpha community.
                                fully agree

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