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HUGE security problem in A5 web security :shocked:

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  • #46
    Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

    Originally posted by kkfin View Post
    The procedure described #42 in post is just as if should be done. The problem is just using hash algorithm that is not secure hash standard anymore. Salting unsecure hash does not make it secure. Developer should use just standard accepted algorithms that are know to be secure and accepted in developer community and not write owns. Can xbasic developer use those secure algorithms?
    you made/set a point!

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

      Just to add to the thought process of passwords and whether or not it is done securely may not even matter...take a look at this blog on PDF passwords. It isn't about salting or hashes or even the process - it's really about the length and known values stolen over the years from servers.
      http://johnaugust.com/2014/try-to-open-this-pdf-contd
      It's just an interesting read and some simple stuff, but very relevant to password security.

      I saw in the pre-release that Alpha has changed the security system going forward and I applaud them for taking this seriously and making the suggested changes but my general feelings are the same. No system is secure when the payload is big enough, in fact I am waiting on the Facebook breach that is coming one day, and we all know that there's more personal information in there than anywhere!
      NWCOPRO: Nuisance Wildlife Control Software My Application: http://www.nwcopro.com "Without forgetting, we would have no memory at all...now what was I saying?"

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      • #48
        Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

        Also if your the trusting sort..check out this website and ponder the usefulness.
        https://howsecureismypassword.net/
        NWCOPRO: Nuisance Wildlife Control Software My Application: http://www.nwcopro.com "Without forgetting, we would have no memory at all...now what was I saying?"

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

          Charles,

          Those two links are great! Thanks for posting them! Those are like a 5-minute lesson in security fundamentals.


          P.S. I had no idea there were 94 septemvigintillion years or more!
          Peter
          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

          Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


          Comment


          • #50
            Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

            One of the major problems with complex passwords and "strong" passwords of random characters and digits is human nature. Basically, they are hard to remember, so most people write them down or record them somewhere. With the proliferation of web sites and devices that requires some type of security, this becomes even more difficult if the person follows recommendations and uses different passwords for different sites. Most people have literally dozens or hundreds of user name / password combinations.

            Many successful hacks have some sort of inside information or only have to crack a single login for a high level user. So if they have access to the users password "store" (very often a Post-it note under a keyboard, or a notebook on a shelf), they have the password, no matter how complex.

            A complex password is much harder to crack, as are one-way passwords, but as the link on PDF encryption states "Hackers have refined their tools using a pool of hundreds of millions of real-world passwords stolen from servers. They donít have to use brute force if they know that 80% of people follow certain patterns.". They just keep trying common passwords until they get a "hit".

            The challenge for all encryption schemes is they must be predictable at some level, even one-way passwords. A clear text password must create some predictable string so it can be compared to a stored value to find a match. Since many successful hacks (such as the one that started this thread) have access to the stored values, the system has a vulnerability. If a hacker can determine how the stored value was created (such as a single MD5 hash), they can then examine the stored values and determine what clear text string could have created the value. They do this by using the common password list and trying various common encryption methods until they find a match in the stored value list.

            The point of all schemes such as salts, multi-level encryption, and random passwords is to increase the effort needed to crack the scheme until the time and effort involved exceeds the value of the data being secured. As computers become more powerful, this is always a moving target.

            Most vulnerabilities in security systems are not technical, but human. The user's choice of passwords, where they store the passwords, and access to the encrypted values are normally the most vulnerable areas.

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            • #51
              Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

              My plan to tighten security as it relates to passwords, is relatively simple, two factor authentication.

              Simply send an sms/email to a person's designated device, request a challenge for it and then it won't matter if anyone knows the password or not. This of course assumes buy in on two factor authentication.

              I enforce two factor authentication of my work email (Google Apps), it's the same strategy banks use with a dongle.

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              • #52
                Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                Originally posted by kiwibruce View Post
                fully agree
                Fully Agree II
                Nicholas Wieland
                LedgerSuite.com Corp
                nnw@edfi.net
                http://www.ledgersuite.com

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                • #53
                  Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                  Salted.png

                  This appears to be the extra step in V11

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                    Most apps have several additional holes. Most allow you to change your userid/email right on a MyAccount page without challenge. Go try this with Facebook or LinkedIn (they do it right). I upgraded my Framework to not allow change of the email address without verification.
                    Steve Wood
                    Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
                    There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
                    Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
                    AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

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                    • #55
                      Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                      Fully Fully Agree
                      Nicholas Wieland
                      LedgerSuite.com Corp
                      nnw@edfi.net
                      http://www.ledgersuite.com

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: HUGE security problem in A5 web security

                        However, you can create your own custom login/encryption schema. The key would be to somehow tie it to A5 security for a5w pages & web components. Haven't thought that through but that might be possible.
                        It occurred to me a little while ago. Yes, that is very doable if you want to go that route.
                        Peter
                        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                        Peter@AlphaBaseSolutions.com
                        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


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