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Windev 20 vs alpha v12

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  • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

    Originally posted by frankbicknell View Post
    I was very disappointed to find out that there would be an additional charge of $1,000.00 for me. I am 'subscribed' until 2018.
    Well I got over my disappointment and signed up again. That alphahol is potent $h:^.
    Win 10 64 Development, Win 7 64 WAS 11-1, 2, Win 10 64 AA-1,2, MySql, dbForge Studio The Best MySQL GUI Tool IMHO.


    • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

      Well, they're trying their best to get me to re-up. Yesterday, I got a message saying I didn't have the latest build as one was released on 7/14/15. So, I downloaded from the alternate servers (the main servers were not active) and installed. This morning I got another message saying I'm not up to date and listed the same build as mine. This time I was able to download from the main servers but before installing, I compared my build number to this morning's download. Would you just look at that?? My build number and today's download are the same. Now, I'm getting a message saying my subscription expired on June 2, 2015 and I won't be able to download the updates unless I buy another subscription. Say what? Whose doing the programing for this at Alpha. My subscription doesn't expire until January 24, 2016. If it expired on 6/2/15, how come I was able to download twice? Who's asleep at the wheel? Guess I'll have to see what Alpha has to say. Just thought this is kinda funny.
      TYVM :) kenn

      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


      • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

        Originally posted by kkfin View Post
        At first using code generators seems to be nice solution. But very soon you just struggle with them.

        Why to make it so difficult.
        In html page you basically have just labels, text boxes, input boxes, selects and textarea.
        Then you add some css and js.

        I would just learn basic skills in html and js and some css.
        Then start using angularjs + some frontend frameworks like kendoui (with Alpha of course).

        Life is much easier and you never have to struggle lack of documentations.

        Check this example from
        How easy to add or take away something.
        This is how coding should be done!

        <!DOCTYPE html>
        <script src=""></script>
        <div ng-app ng-init="qty=1;cost=2">
            Quantity: <input type="number" min="0" ng-model="qty">
            Costs: <input type="number" min="0" ng-model="cost">
            <b>Total:</b> {{qty * cost | currency}}
        Get interested? This is the original video that turned my development philosophy.

        Angular is certainly a different beast, and quite mature now in today's modern longevity terms.
        I particularly like this video that quickly and code efficiently explains the benefits and openness of Angular, viz a viz third party tools such as Firebase.
        It may be out of date now, as I believe a significant upgrade took place fairly recently, but it still highlights the trends in the marketplace to simplify the coding side of DB related development.

        I also find it interesting that traditional Alpha users are now exploring development topics such as 'meanstack', long may it continue.

        As to AA and hilltops, from what I understand, Selwyn would appear to be a software development tool genius and as long as he retains the desire to differentiate AA from the rest of the offerings we should be OK.

        Unless you are a hobbyist developer, you must realise that just like you, Alpha is a business, and as such requires capital to continue as a successful enterprise.
        Therefore, research and development costs need to be covered and then investors appeased, etc. Which I suspect is why they have, over recent years, opted for the subscription model.
        Personally, I am not a fan of the subscription approach, primarily because of the comments several people have already expressed in this thread. However, I am a fan of paying a fair price for an upgrade when significant benefits and features become available. I would add to this that to offset cash flow needs for suppliers such as Alpha, I am always happy to pay reasonable annual maintenance charges to ensure correction of bug fixes and receipt of improved functionality of existing features.


        • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

          I watched the video link (actually watched-skimmed it). Every time I watch a video on Angular JS, I marvel at what a painful process it is to build even the most simple interface. I get that you have total control, but at what price? You could spend a year building stuff Alpha gives you out of the box that you can put together in minutes or in an hour. It's not that Alpha is a perfect solution, it's not. But there's a reason that people gravitate towards RAD. You can do real stuff, relatively quickly. One of my projects over the past 6-months is quite complex (that's why it's taken 6-months and a ways to go yet), but if I had to do it Angular, I would be working on it for 6-years. Having said that, I really would love to see some of Kkfin's work:

          Then start using angularjs + some frontend frameworks like kendoui (with Alpha of course)
          That's an interesting combo: Angular, KendoUI and Alpha. Of course, if you are using KendoUI, then you are leapfrogging Angular in a sense - right?
          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC


          • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

            Angular is a framework like many others as Breeze, KnockOut no more. Kendo UI is a template wrapper for different script languages as JSP, ASP,PHP no more.
            The learning curve is not so simple as shown on youtube video's. Use Webstorm from my advice first follow the basic training course howto become a type goat


            • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

              Along with what Peter said, unless you need it to do something Alpha (or similar programs) can't do, why does one want to spend all that time with it? In some respect, the time spent on it is wasted time. (Not that I haven't wasted time with Alpha. LOL)
              TYVM :) kenn

              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


              • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                My answer to the observations of Peter and Ken is twofold:

                1. Given that the Angular code involved in the video example is in reality very compact for what it achieves and far more powerful than anything previously available in JS and even JQ, I suggest therefore that possibly for the more adaptable amongst us, that when armed with a snippet library of typical DOM access functions, preferred CSS layout attributes, generic table management requirements and table definitions, simple copy and paste actions + necessary tweaks quickly become the developer equivalent of RAD, and eventually second nature.

                2. Incredible flexibility for back-end and front-end functionality; with deployment costs, if not completely inconsequential, then certainly not a barrier to attractive resale pricing.

                Having said that, given my age and dwindling ability to focus intensively on new technologies and how to harness and benefit from them, give me the RAD approach every time :)


                • Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                  There are rad systmes out there that will give you JS, css, asp/c# code that works and ready to deploy verysimilar to what alpha does. It is about the same cost as well. It does not do it with less hand coding, in fact just the opposite. You will do more hand coding. There are benefits as well.
                  Do I use it? NO Too busy with alpha desktops stuff and my website endeavors.
                  Due to the websites I am compelled to go deeper and deeper into PHP, CSS3, JQ, JS, HTML5, ajax, MySQL/mariadb, not to mention some other stuff. These will go on Linux or windows platforms and sometimes do.
                  Fortunately, there are tons of code snippets already built in the aforementioned that may only need a tweak or 2 to save many hours of hand work.
                  Dave Mason
                  Skype is dave.mason46