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Hosting Build 5581

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  • Hosting Build 5581

    FindGoodFood is a NFP NGO ready to launch a new, novel, unique and useful way (patented) of allowing anyone (open platform) to find, buy, sell, share and/or swap 'good' food, and avoid 'bad', however one wishes to define these.

    But, we cannot afford the AWS costs of data storage, so are reverting back to our development Build of 5581, and are looking for anyone who can host that or similar Build.

    We are not programmers, just BA/CIO types, so also hope to find someone to assist in refinements to our 50 odd GRIDS/UX components for Web and Mobiles.

    We prefer that person / body to take a vested interest in FGF which has global potential.

    Please contact <personal info removed> if interested in more details.
    Last edited by Lenny Forziati; 05-10-2022, 12:15 PM.

  • #2
    When you say build 5581, you mean the build from January 2019? Is the build on a current subscription and you just haven't bothered updating or did you let the subscription lapse so you can't update and can't afford to renew the subscription?

    By vested interest, do you mean that you hope someone will be interested enough in the product that they will work for little pay in hopes of the product reaping larger rewards in the future?

    How much traffic does your site currently have? The amount of traffic makes a different to the host.

    Also, you say that your AWS fees are too expensive - how much data are you storing?

    These are all important details to finding a host/programmer.

    Comment


    • #3
      Build 5581 is very old and a number of security issues have been addressed since that time. We urge you to NOT host this version and to instead update to a current build to stay current with security best practices.

      Lenny Forziati
      Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
      Alpha Software Corporation

      Comment


      • #4
        Regret I am new to this forum, and cannot find how one replies to individual requests / comments so will name who I am replying to:

        Lenny : Yes, we were aware of those security issues, hence used AlphaToGo's Framework V.4.2 Security system.

        And, we opted out of updating in Jan., 2020 for 2 reasons:
        • We were / are not interested in Transform where most of AA's new development was going at the time.
        • We have a perpetual licence for Build 5581, were still in the development mode, and Build 5581 satisfies all our needs for the application we were building.
        It is also very fast and efficient, compared to my testing of AA cloud, AWS..

        NB: We are not programmers nor developers for others, etc. but very focused on building a single, unique application.

        Igrupido
        • See above for your first question.
          • We are a NFP NGO who simply cannot afford to spend money on updates we do not need, or want, like Transform
        • 2nd question : Yes, we do not have the programming skills to move to the next level in our development, esp.hen we go live, nor the hosting skills.
          • We have a new, novel, unique and very useful methodology (patented) with global potential, with so yes, we expect to succeed, as one of our unique features is fulfilling the demand of 75% of consumers, the other more generic (which our patent protects) close to 100% .
          • The "Go To Market" strategies and tactics are complex, very much like the 'which comes first : chicken or egg' story
            • We did our 1st Test market in early 2020 just before COVID.
            • We live in Victoria, Australia, which has been shut down for 2 years (worst in world).
            • So, the project is not without risk, but the demand is so high it cannot be ignored.
          • Yes, we did have a local AA developer interested in our partnership proposition in 2020, accepted our agreement. But when he realized the potential, he want it all, to take over our IP, all our R&D, our masses of data collected, etc. for his own account.
          • As a BA / CIO type, been having that problem with programmers since 1976, so not unexpected.
        • 3rd question : In early 2020, we went to test the market with only 130 K of the potential 500K customers on one side of the marketing equation. The potential on the other side of the supply chain equation (say 10% of the 75% above) would be in the millions in Australia.
        • Traffic volume : From lessons learnt from our test market, we have changed our strategy in not going all out, as as long as our solutions (applications, databases, application servers, etc are fully scaleable, we are concerned primarily about getting the business model right, so it can rolled out globally.
          • So, we will have rapidly escalating volumes
        • AWS : our relationship only lasted 5 days, before I closed the account.
          • Was one of the first computer auditors (E&Y), before head hunted for F/T IT work.
          • So, did an audit on AWS charges:
            • To load my ATG Framework tables and 3 test tables, cost me Au$457 in 5 days. No activity, no transactions, just loading SQL tables.
            • Did nothing for 24 hours, re-audited to find fees had gone up another $30 for no activity.
            • Closed the account, but then found another $60 been added to our bill a day later, after closing the account.
            • So, taking these costs, projecting their 'compute unit' costs, I estimated that we would run up $3000 in the first month, and $6000 pm after 6 months.
          • The beauty of being a AWS customer is that you cannot talk to them, ask them for an explanation, etc. I am sure they regard this as very effective CRM.
        Ideally we are looking for a programmer with a interest, or passion, in the subject of healthy eating, and 'regen' farming (we (my son, wife and I) did this 20 years), as this is the way the world is moving.

        FYI : My expertise for past 20 years is in sales, in optimizing F&B and other natural resource supply chains - this will be very useful in our project. Prior to that, worked 10 years in sales for large ERP vendors such as SAP, prior to that IBM, HP, prior to that CIO for large manufacturing group, prior to that BA for Unilever, prior to that computer auditor (E&Y), prior to that, marketing (Hons degree, on top an Econ and BComm)

        So, I may not be a programmer, but know enough to use AA, to get to launch stage. ,

        Comment


        • #5
          5am, 11 May (AEST)
          We are now converting our DB's from My_SQL to Maria

          Comment


          • #6
            The only way you are going to be able to scale up as much as you say you need is with a hosting provider like AWS, Google, Zebrahost or Alpha Cloud. (or some other provider that has access to a lot of computing power) and THAT is going to cost money.

            To save money during the development phase, you are better off buying your own server and hosting locally until you are ready to scale up.

            For instance, I have an alpha license on a small server in my home. I could host you on a later build (I wouldn't install 5581), but it would not be able to provide service for more than a couple of hundred customers at the most, depending on the load.

            I am still unclear on how much data you have and whether you are using MySQL or MS SQL.

            Not to take anything away from the Framework - I use it in one of my apps too, but Alpha2Go's framework/security system is simply a frontend for Alpha's security system. It doesn't make the system any more secure than what the Alpha version provides.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ctmacquet View Post
              Regret I am new to this forum, and cannot find how one replies to individual requests / comments so will name who I am replying to:

              Lenny : Yes, we were aware of those security issues, hence used AlphaToGo's Framework V.4.2 Security system.

              And, we opted out of updating in Jan., 2020 for 2 reasons:
              • We were / are not interested in Transform where most of AA's new development was going at the time.
              • We have a perpetual licence for Build 5581, were still in the development mode, and Build 5581 satisfies all our needs for the application we were building.
              It is also very fast and efficient, compared to my testing of AA cloud, AWS..

              NB: We are not programmers nor developers for others, etc. but very focused on building a single, unique application.
              To be clear, the AlphaToGo framework or any other third party code has absolutely no ability to work around or prevent security issues at the TLS/SSL layer or the HTTP layer. Known issues have been fixed in those layers since the release of your old build. Running old software with known security issues is what allowed the Equifax security breach of 2017 to occur, and not updating could expose your application and systems to similar exploits.

              Transform is an entirely separate product and is licensed independently. An Alpha Anywhere subscription is not influenced in any way by Transform.


              Lenny Forziati
              Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
              Alpha Software Corporation

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for you interest in our project.

                We envisage our next "Test Market" to involve some 200 consumers and 40 Providores (farmers, growers (not home growers yet), producers and those Eateries and Food Outlets which support local)

                Due to COVID, more than 60% of the 130K providores in our first test market no longer exist.

                But our whole strategy has changed, we need to get a local area 'tested' (as above) to refine our business model, to prove to ourselves that we can add value to both consumer and providores in order to charge subscriptions, pitched at about 3-5% of perceived added-value to them.

                Our goal is to service the fast organically growing 'regen" movement (see Kiss the Ground movie or website) and make each local group self-sustainable and self-organising.
                Perhaps even consider SaaS models for those who already have their foodie empire or following.

                Data storage : say 250 users, and about 10 supporting food info tables for the 'Test Market".

                ATG Framework - yes understood. Perhaps I was thinking of their double opt-in registration process,

                To show my IT incompetence, I have been trying unsuccessfully to remove / replace the 'root' password for MySQL for past 2 days without success, as I cannot remember it (MYSQL was first implemented on my development machine 5 years ago) so cannot find where I stored the password.

                So, am migrating to Maria, and making sure I never loose the password again.

                Would greatly appreciate your possible offer of help. Happy to provide more details if you are happy to sign an NDA.

                I see my email link has been removed by the Forum Administrator, so suggest you can contact me via <removed> Moderator note: Use the Messages functionality for direct contact and exchange of private info including contact details.
                Last edited by Lenny Forziati; 05-10-2022, 04:22 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lenny,

                  Thanks for that info - regret I have not been involved in AA development since Build 5581, so not aware, other than we liked ATG's Framework for non-programmers, and their double opt-in registration process.

                  But I did know that Transform is an entirely different product, unsuited to our needs. Hence one of the reasons we saw no reason to upgrade from a perpetual to an annual licence at that time, as pointed out above. We first used AA V7 in 2007 which cost us about $150, amazing value for money.

                  We are fully aware that if our very limited "2nd Test Market' is successful, we will need to upgrade to AA Cloud very soon.

                  In fact we have already tried AA Cloud, but found AWS too expensive as pointed out above. Esp. as we, as a NFP NGO, are not yet earning any income until we add value across the food supply chain.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You can still use your build and by pass any security problems in Alphas SSL layer using Cloudflare as frontend for your classic server. In fact everybody should use in my opinion what ever classic server build they are using. An other option is use IIS as frontend and then Alpha classic server from localhost, Third option is to use Alphas runtime (xdialog and chrome control) and Tsplus.
                    I am using build 5310 and still alive.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                      You can still use your build and by pass any security problems in Alphas SSL layer using Cloudflare as frontend for your classic server. In fact everybody should use in my opinion what ever classic server build they are using. An other option is use IIS as frontend and then Alpha classic server from localhost, Third option is to use Alphas runtime (xdialog and chrome control) and Tsplus.
                      I am using build 5310 and still alive.
                      Cloudflare is a great service, but this is only a partial solution at best. Not all issues are at the TLS/SSL layer, and most Cloudflare users do not have things locked down securely enough to prevent bypassing the Cloudflare servers and accessing the systems directly.

                      Lenny Forziati
                      Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
                      Alpha Software Corporation

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the major problem with classic application server is the lack of virtual host support. So it is hard to hide actual IP. But you can solve this running again an other proxy (like IIS)) but you are right things are getting complicated and many can not do this.

                        But anyway I am interested if somebody has found somewhere a secure server that can not be hacked.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          https://findgoodfood.net/
                          I have read all of the documentation here and respectfully suggest that Alpha Professional Services would be the best way forward.
                          See our Hybrid Option here;
                          https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                          There are 3 things you can do in any situation;
                          Live with it, Change it or Walk away from it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I understand that being a NFP typically translates to small/tight budget. But I think you're going to have a hard time finding an Alpha developer that will work for well under their typical hourly cost. From what I have read you appear to feel strongly in your product and it's potential. I would respectfully suggest that you (and any of your partners) take on the financial risk of hiring a developer to bring your product to its full potential.

                            This site may help you find the developer you're looking for: https://www.iadn.com/
                            Mike Brown - Contact Me
                            Programmatic Technologies, LLC
                            Programmatic-Technologies.com
                            Independent Developer & Consultant

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Note sure how to address individually, so will have a go at answers to all the above:
                              • As a BA/ CIO type in large scale ERP systems for past 50 years, I believe that we are ready and secure enough for at least a 'test market' to test our business model.
                              • Yes, I fully agree we need a programmer to take it to the next level, as our skills are in marketing / selling IT solutions (for past 30 years)
                              • Have been in contact with Steve Woods (IADN) for many years, who is helping us through this process. Pete Conway, just an hour or so away, is also keen to help.
                              • Have a good relationship with Richard Rabins as he is a "cricket tragic" . I was a State Rep player. He is being very helpful, but has no say over AWS costs.
                              • Yes, aware of the hacking issue and came across other ways of addressing this some years ago - an auto re-routing of IP addresses so that a hacker could never get to our IP address.
                              • I am not aware of Cloudfare, so will investigate
                              • We have connected our App to AWS through AA Cloud, where we experienced security clashes with our ATG Framework's Security.
                              • We have connected to other DB servers through AA Cloud, but too slow, as the integration is not as tight as AA cloud and AWS.
                              • We have connected to those DB servers (Hong Kong) from our development system (Australia) and speeds are acceptable for limited market testing.
                                • We have an AA Application Server purchased in 2015, which we are about to test for self-hosting.
                                • Our software (developed over the years, now on Build 5581), runs well enough on the 2015 Build 2263.
                              Our app will have:
                              • thousands of users
                              • High activity
                              • high rate of server call back's, etc.
                              Any more questions or advice would be greatly appreciated

                              Comment

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