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Pre-release and expired subscription

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    Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

    Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
    Just so I am completely clear, does the licensing renewal requirement only apply to the Web and WAS side, or does the V12 Desktop have the same restrictions?
    Yes, it applies to the Desktop
    To quote Lenny
    Alpha Anywhere (V12) is subscription based and the subscriptions have had 2 different models:
    Initial Alpha Anywhere subscriptions included a perpetual license that allowed indefinite use of the software, up to the last official release available when the subscription expires. If the subscription expires and the software is newer than the latest official release available on the expiration date, the software will not work. This can be resolved by applying an older patch.
    Current Alpha Anywhere subscriptions do NOT include a perpetual license. When the subscription expires, you will be unable to use the software. This is the only type of subscription that is currently offered. Your data is yours and will not be locked or blocked in any way, but you will not be able to use Alpha Anywhere to access it.


    The second type of subscription (without a perpetual license) is the only subscription currently being offered by Alpha Software. All new subscribers will have this type of subscription.


    http://www.alphasoftware.com/alphafo...cription/page2

    Comment


      Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

      Except that a few posts back, there is a new quote from Richard:

      there is no plan to automatically turn off licenses for people who are a true subscription.
      I believe Richard. Keep in mind, this post started because someone was on a pre-release version, not an official version.

      Comment


        Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

        Originally posted by lgrupido View Post
        Except that a few posts back, there is a new quote from Richard:



        I believe Richard. Keep in mind, this post started because someone was on a pre-release version, not an official version.
        As Richard said a valid subscription is true subscription, any new lic for new customers has to follow that rule unless i am wrong

        Comment


          Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

          Or maybe they launch fourth subscription in addition we now have: business, business pro, enterprise and TRUE SUBSCRIPTION.
          I am sure Richard did mean this.

          Comment


            Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

            Originally posted by GGandhi View Post
            if you go to Microsoft office, the subscription plan is spelled out:
            -snip-
            I would agree.

            For me, the issue is that Alpha's subscription model is relatively young and pricing unstable. What kind of money per year can we as developers expect to have to lay out (and have our clients lay out) per year over the next few years? With Microsoft I pay about $500/year (and my clients pay no subscription fees) for things like Visual Studio. With Alpha, a new developer will have no idea. $1,000/year, $5,000/year, $10,000/year? Yes, MSFT can change as well but Alpha's pricing and license model, to its developer base, has changed much more over the last year or two. Now I'm HOPING that Alpha's promise to me that my developer pricing is grandfathered-in will be kept, that will help somewhat, but I don't know about the server licensing cost for my clients. And if Alpha decides in a year or two they don't want to keep their promise to me and other, similarly-situated developers, well, then, I'm screwed.

            Alpha's a great product, but as someone else pointed out above, if we can't get clarity about what our costs are going to be going forward (and by clarity I don't mean a specific number commitment, just an idea of what kind of company Alpha wants to be) then I will HAVE to consider changing course. Now I'm sure that will have a significant impact on Alpha's decisions going forward ( :) ), but I have no control over that. I only have control over what I do.

            Again, Alpha is a great product and Selwyn has shown a great deal of integrity in his dealings with us, but even he is subject to the decisions of the corporation as a whole. The point is: We all need to have a better idea of what those decisions will be.
            Last edited by nlk10010; 10-27-2016, 10:43 AM.

            Comment


              Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

              There is absolutely no excuse for Alpha not to have their licensing and subscription terms spelled out in plain English on their web site and elsewhere for everyone to read. And not in legalese. This is what EVERY serious company does. Alpha will never be taken as a serious player in the general business community, much less the enterprise business class, until they begin behaving like they are a serious and stable business. GROW UP!
              Peter
              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

              [email protected]
              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


              Comment


                Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                The position I have come to is that Alpha is going to do whatever they do, and although they are still responsive to the needs of the Independent Developer, they are less so than in years past, and we have less influence on pricing, policy, etc. And, that the price WILL go up over time, possibly significantly. And finally, eventually that every user/developer will be forced to be on the current subscription model because of some future technical reason, in or out of Alpha's control will force us to abandon our outdated Alpha platform and move to a current subscription model.

                So for me that means:
                • Building applications using Alpha cannot be my only source of income
                • Alpha cannot be my only development platform
                • Generally I have to go after larger customers for my Alpha work
                • I absolutely have to divulge the "total cost of operation" to my prospective clients (mandatory subscription, etc).
                • I have to have methods to reduce my client's cost, like to host their applications on my own server, etc..

                In some respects, I feel I have to trust that Alpha knows what they are doing in terms of price and market. I don't know that for sure, and it definitely feels different than in years past, but the people in charge of that section are top quality individuals and so I have to lean in the direction that they are doing the right thing. Now, if that means that I have to change how I work and who I work with, then I have to do that. If I look on the bright side, if Alpha can charge a lot more for their product, then there must be companies willing to pay a lot more for their applications, and I want to have those companies as my customer, and get paid more.
                Steve Wood
                See my profile on IADN

                Comment


                  Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                  Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                  -snip-
                  If I look on the bright side, if Alpha can charge a lot more for their product, then there must be companies willing to pay a lot more for their applications, and I want to have those companies as my customer, and get paid more.
                  You may indeed be right (you certainly have much more experience with Alpha than I do) but I think corporations would pay "a lot more" for Alpha to develop applications in house. If they're going to look to outside software solution providers then they really won't care what the language is (let me correct that: They may actually prefer C# as there would be an extremely large pool of developers) and we will end up competing with companies that can provide solutions at a much lower cost and a much higher "acceptance ratio".

                  Frankly, my impression is that the powers-that-be at Alpha wish that all independent developers would just "go away" so they (Alpha) can concentrate on what they believe is their core business, servicing large corporations.

                  Comment


                    Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                    Frankly, my impression is that the powers-that-be at Alpha wish that all independent developers would just "go away" so they (Alpha) can concentrate on what they believe is their core business, servicing large corporations.
                    Funny. I get that exact same impression.
                    Peter
                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                    [email protected]
                    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                    Comment


                      Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                      It is my impression too but only at the money making side. It used to be that I would bring this up as a concern, but I am no longer in that business, shows how much I have changed too.
                      Steve Wood
                      See my profile on IADN

                      Comment


                        Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                        Originally posted by nlk10010 View Post
                        You may indeed be right (you certainly have much more experience with Alpha than I do) but I think corporations would pay "a lot more" for Alpha to develop applications in house. If they're going to look to outside software solution providers then they really won't care what the language is (let me correct that: They may actually prefer C# as there would be an extremely large pool of developers) and we will end up competing with companies that can provide solutions at a much lower cost and a much higher "acceptance ratio".

                        Frankly, my impression is that the powers-that-be at Alpha wish that all independent developers would just "go away" so they (Alpha) can concentrate on what they believe is their core business, servicing large corporations.
                        Enterprise customer has at least 1000 employees and at least 1500 computers so independent developer is an other story. Alpha is targeting enterprise customers.

                        What comes to c# to me is hard to believe that Alpha did spend 6 years to get xbasic.dll to run in IIS. I wonder what advance they do think customers will get from this. Why did they not spend 6 years to get c# output. C# output would make Alpha in same line with others.

                        I do understand subscription model in developer, but Alphas price level not. I wonder what are the reasons why price in one year did come from 1000 to 2500. What kind of company do like this to their customers? I do understand subscription model if you deploy for example to Alpha Cloud but customers should have possibility to have choice to choose perpetual license in their own servers.

                        Every customer from now on is in three years period at least 7500 for Alpha or then not.

                        Comment


                          Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                          Enterprise like Servoy and outsystems start at $25K .
                          Last edited by bea2701; 10-27-2016, 12:35 PM.

                          Comment


                            Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                            Everyone wants a utopia as build once and forget it. NOT gonna happen. Closer with c#, php, java apps, but even they change. Many apps written in php5 won't work at all in php7, so have to be changed. RAD platforms must be renewed or updated to get the new changes. It all comes down to COST of updating and overhead involved!!

                            NO One platform is going to serve every need for every application needed for every client. It will take more diverse apps to handle everything change needed.
                            Dave Mason
                            [email protected]
                            Skype is dave.mason46

                            Comment


                              Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                              From Alpha's perspective I can see the advantage of an automatic subscription model for many reasons:

                              1) It allows you to more accurately project future revenue.
                              2) Because you can more accurately predict your revenue, you can build better budgets and determine how much you can spend on R&D.
                              3) If you want to attract investors/take on debt you have a more reliable income stream to demonstrate.
                              4) Product improvements and releases are not tied to new streams of revenue (i.e. the company is not forced to make a new version every year and try to sell it/ask everyone to upgrade.)
                              5) Overall a more stable company.

                              Like many of you I rely on Alpha being around to support my business, and personally I much prefer the subscription model even though it costs me more because a company with a good subscription base is much more secure financially then if they are trying to hawk a new version every year.

                              Generally speaking the cost is very reasonable for you what you get. Sure there are free tools out there but the extra time you spend on development will end up costing you a lot more. For example, I can build a grid with an editable dialog in maybe 10 minutes using Alpha Anywhere. Try doing that in Ruby on Rails or something similar. It would take a week and you would need to know Ruby and Javascript cold!

                              I do agree Alpha is moving towards a more corporate based clientele so I can sympathize with independent developers working with smaller clients. But I think most people are getting use to a subscription model for software and $1000/$1500 bucks a year doesn't seem that onerous overall. You can even use it as a selling feature that the company is constantly investing to keep your software current, or build it into your support price.

                              Finally, as Richard pointed out Alpha will notify everyone well in advance before the license expires, so that should not be a concern. Similarly, if you don't renew your SSL certificate or domain name (after they alert you) your site goes down. So I see no difference - although I agree Alpha needs a way to get things going 24/7 365 should you let it lapse accidentally.

                              Comment


                                Re: Pre-release and expired subscription

                                Excuse me for pointing out that revenue does not necessarily develop into a better product.
                                Every business relies on a good product which people will want to purchase. Good marketing will sell a bad product, but it will only sell it once.
                                Alpha Desktop is, to my mind, the best there is, or is likely to be.
                                Mixing it up with the Web is wrong. The concept of IIS and WAS is wrong - as the lady in Puerta Vallarta said - "too many moving parts".
                                Kens comment re C# and Xbasic is so valid. The only reason Xbasic is still involved is legacy. Changing stuff while chained to the Anvil is always difficult.
                                I'd happily pay a yearly update fee for DT -as I have for many years, and for Web if I used it, but I have found a different toolkit for Web based on C#.
                                Sorry Alpha, you have a DT fan base and WEB user base. Split and develop two work streams and I suggest you will make money.
                                How long before you come to the conclusion that a composite toolkit just won't work?
                                See our Hybrid Option here;
                                https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                                Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                                You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                                Comment

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