new ..calendar component in v11

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

And here's some correspondence I've had with dhtmlx:

Aha! I didn’t think about custom development services! The custom development would be to provide an example of your calendar correctly configured and running inside an Alpha Five application. As a matter of fact, that would be an excellent thing for you to do as a sales tool regardless. There’s a nice pool of potential buyers right now, all exploring their calendar options because of unhappiness with the pricing for what’s being offered.

Alpha Five’s free demo download is fully functional. http://server2.alphasoftware.com/products/


Wendy Welton, RA
www.ArtformHomePlans.com
www.ArtFormArchitecture.com

603-431-9559 office
603-661-9658 cell "if your hair is on fire"

From: DHTMLX Sales Department [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:34 AM
To: Wendy Welton
Cc: sales
Subject: Re: integration with Alpha Five applications

Hi Wendy,

> Is there someone we can talk to to find out more about what it would take to deploy it within an A5 application?

Are you interested in our custom development services? Or would you like to clarify dhtmlxScheduler licensing terms?

Please send all your questions to [email protected] (just reply to this email).


---
Best regards,
Inga Kravtsova
DHTMLX Ltd.
Website: http://dhtmlx.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/dhtmlx




---- On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 23:35:17 +0200 Wendy Welton <[email protected]> wrote ----

Alpha Five has just come out with versions 11, which has an integrated third party calendar component, Web2Cal. We expected to pay a third party licensing fee. But we were all surprised to find out it’s a hefty $450 per domain.
So, anyone doing development for many small clients, especially if they made promises without this knowledge, are kinda screwed.
So, we’re researching finding a viable alternate, and your software looks like it might fit the bill. Your pricing is reasonable and it looks to be a good product. Is there someone we can talk to to find out more about what it would take to deploy it within an A5 application? We could care less about any fancy configuration from inside an A5 app, just that it run within it, appear seamless to the end client.

Wendy Welton, RA
www.ArtformHomePlans.com
www.ArtFormArchitecture.com

603-431-9559 office
603-661-9658 cell "if your hair is on fire"

[chadbrown]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

How do you know that Alpha hasnt already struck a deal with web2cal and wont support other calendars. Also I doubt that they will backtrack on all the work that has been done by Selwyn and his team. Everyone seems to be worried about the pricing for the web2cal and have missed the big one which is googlemaps, its 10k per year if you have it on a site that is not public. I have bit the bullet on the web2cal and purchased it already. I had to look at how much time and effort am I going to put into something cheaper to run properly inside of A5. Look seriously into the support for sub domains. You could be using this on multiple servers at once you just have to have them all on the same domain ie

test.sales.com
sales.com
server1.sales.com
server2.sales.com
service.sales.com

All qualify as 1 domain.

I realize that the pricing is very high and I was not happy about paying it but had to face the reality that I purchased v11 subscription to use this great feature.

[Bill Griffin]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Wendy,

Have you approached Alpha about adding support for another calendar? Seems like that should be step one in this process, but maybe you already have done that.

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

All good points. For other calendars to be deployed, they don't need to be supported officially. We don't need a button inside A5 to configure. We just need them to work.

I may reach out to Richard and see if he could do a bit more negotiation on our behalf with Web2Cal. I totally get why they want to charge per domain. That's what I would do! Payment per domain can even be seen to benefit all who use the product, because money in the pot pays for improvements, etc. I even get why a second domain is only somewhat of a reduction. I like that they're US based. I certainly appreciate all the work A5 did to integrate. I appreciate that they vetted calendars and presume they selected this one because it's the best one.

I'd like to see a sliding scale for add-on licenses - maybe $250 each for licenses 3-10, drop to $150 after that. I think you could assume that a developer rolling out 10 or more instances of this calendar in applications gets the drill down on the first couple and isn't consuming support at the same clip.

Developers have to make money. On top of the $450 per domain, they have to spend time configuring it.

[DaveM]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Wendy,

edit: I really do NOT want stuff from outside vendors. When Alpha changes something, it could be a real hassle to get that app working again. Example: back 15 years ago we wrote code to work with quickbooks and everytime quickbooks updated our code was broke. Yes, I know we can get to quickbooks now with alpha, but not so easy 15 years ago. We were using VB at that time to post to qb.

NOT TO KNOCK IT!!! I am sure Alpha is getting a bit of a kick back on any sales that are generated. That is just good business. My suggestion still stands that someone needs to undertake building a calendar using alpha to be in alpha. There is enough brain power in this user base to do that. I would not mind(if I were using the web much) paying a fee for the usage. IADN would be a great choice.

Mine is a bit different as I would like one for desktop. I could use a scheduling calendar to include with an app that is sold for a lower price to compete with several other similar ones. Most of them sell for 150 - 200. Mine is 100. It would not make sense for me to add a 100 per sale to to the price so I can include a calendar scheduler. If I increase the price by 100, I am out of the race. I can't work for nothing either.

Dr Peter Wayne did build one for the desktop a few years ago. That may be a good source for a start? I may also look at that one again.

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Wendy,

edit: I really do NOT want stuff from outside vendors. When Alpha changes something, it could be a real hassle to get that app working again. Example: back 15 years ago we wrote code to work with quickbooks and everytime quickbooks updated our code was broke. Yes, I know we can get to quickbooks now with alpha, but not so easy 15 years ago. We were using VB at that time to post to qb.

That's an excellent point, and I appreciate your sharing that experience.

NOT TO KNOCK IT!!! I am sure Alpha is getting a bit of a kick back on any sales that are generated. That is just good business. .

You know - I think I agree with that! If they're getting a commission of some kind, I don't hold that against them.

My suggestion still stands that someone needs to undertake building a calendar using alpha to be in alpha. There is enough brain power in this user base to do that. I would not mind(if I were using the web much) paying a fee for the usage. IADN would be a great choice.

Mine is a bit different as I would like one for desktop. I could use a scheduling calendar to include with an app that is sold for a lower price to compete with several other similar ones. Most of them sell for 150 - 200. Mine is 100. It would not make sense for me to add a 100 per sale to to the price so I can include a calendar scheduler. If I increase the price by 100, I am out of the race. I can't work for nothing either.

Dr Peter Wayne did build one for the desktop a few years ago. That may be a good source for a start? I may also look at that one again.

I would be on board with that also. If Web2Cal is the Mercedes Benz of calenders and will be worth the price to some, I think a less expensive option is needed as well.

I have the potential for 30 or 40 builders to get web sites with an admin portion from me in the next 18-24 months. And my math is just about dead nuts on to your math in terms of what can be added to the price. My price point for these will be higher, but I don't see more than $200-$300 being supportable - definitely not $450. I could even see the basic offering having the alternate calendar we come up with, and the fancy Web2Cal one is an upgrade.

And by "we" I mean smarter and more experienced people that myself. My part of "we" could really only be putting some money in the pot or testing usability and/or install by a relative newbie.

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

btw - has anybody looked into the Web2Cal licensing for web vs mobil? It kinda looks like if you're deploying a web site and a companion mobil app that you have to buy separate licenses?

[chadbrown]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

What should be happening is a price per month to use web2cal as an option. They have the means to control this with there authentication. If users had to pay $10/mth I would think Wendy you could easily sell that option to your builders. Remember web2cal is a one time purchase not yearly so far!

[DaveM]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Chad,

You have some valid points. However, even though it is a one time fee, if I were to add 499.00 to the cost of each of my that get purchased and I sell even 50?? you do that math. That is desktop of couse which it does not work on.

In another thread, I posted the following to Selwyn with of course no answer for a couple days.

Selwyn,

You need to let your sales calls people know to not tell others that it will work on desktop! It might also be a good policy to let them know that a desktop app and iphones do not work together also unless they do.

I personally do not care(for myself) if the calendar works at all for a year or so. I think it would be good business for alpha if it was affordable. I also do not think Alpha is naive enough to think the price as is would ever be palatable to the majority of the programmers. Only a few will sell or make a web app that will include the calendar where it is expensive enough to afford the calendar. More so, they will start to disdain it's use when they sell the 3rd or fourth use of that calendar.

If the calendar was made in Alpha for alpha, it would have merit. Mind you, I did not say BY alpha. If it is done for desktop, I wouild want the code or at least the hows to create it myself.

I could ruffle too many feathers if I keep this up, so I am done for now.

Good Luck, whatever ya'll do.

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

OK folks, I have some good news. I've just had a lovely chat with Sam Paul from Web2Cal. There will indeed be some volume licensing that will bring the cost to nice competitive levels - both for licenses bought in bulk at once, and for developers who roll out one app at a time, but who do many. It's not as simple as if X, then Y, so he asked me not to post numbers.

Use the contact form on their web site to tell him what your needs are or will be, both immediate and long term. Also, I've recommended that A5 get him logged into this message board so he can answer questions himself. I think what's happening is that Alpha Five will be handling the marketing, but that marketing isn't done yet, leaving us all to various states of conjecture. So if he can just answer questions here, it will save a lot of folks a lot of anxiety. I think it's the lack of written information that's kinda leaving everybody up in the air.

I came away from the phone conversation comfortable enough to go ahead and buy my first Web2Cal license. My impression was that they're a small company that can and will make decisions on an as-needed basis, that they do "get it" about the economics of the business, and that A5 likely did make an excellent choice in selecting them.

[Atta]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Are we going to ask for a quantity discount???

[WendyWelton]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Basically A5 has already negotiated a quantity discount for the Alpha Five community as a group - $450 instead of $650. And, additional quantity discounts will be available from Web2Cal - and from Web2Cal I understand that those discounts won't necessarily require you to buy them all at once. What I got from him was that these additional discounts can indeed be significant (meaning I liked the numbers I was hearing). But he asked me not to just post them, to instead let people contact them directly. I've also written to both Paul @ Web2Cal and to Richard and Selwyn about the disconnect between the marketing (where little information is currently available) and reality (which it sounds like might be a much rosier picture than we've all been imagining). I think they might all be so deep in the various tasks on their desks following the public release of 11 that they didn't quite realize a little steam roll of anxiety was getting going here. Especially since Paul is now aware that this has sent many shopping for alternates, I suspect more information will be coming from either A5 or Web2Cal or both in the coming days. If they're smart it will be!

As I think I've seen some others post, Web2Cal may also be willing to issue a temporary license allowing a developer to showcase it to clients - a necessary step for many, so you can then know how many of your clients want it. Just use the contact form on their web site and tell them what you need.

http://www.web2cal.com/support/contact-us

I'd almost say also - don't even look at the pricing on their web site. It doesn't apply to us! Do look at the licensing terms and policies etc - but if we have a $200 discount on the basic license right out of the gate, I assume the pricing on other tiers will also be adjusted. Just write to him with what you need for pricing.

[Jim Coltz]

Re: Wendy's goin' all off road!

Some additional license information:

Thank you for pointing the page to us. The price 449$ is for the domain wide license which usually costs 649$. We also offer other types of licenses.

I) Trial license which works for a specified time. You can use this license to showcase the application for certain period of time (2 Weeks) to your potential customers. Other option is you can purchase a Trial license for a specific period of time at a much lower charge. This option is useful, if you plan to purchase bulk number of licenses down the line. Note that after the expiry of the trial license, your application will redirect to our website.


We will be joining the Alpha Board to answer questions personally.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks a lot,
Sam
On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Jim Coltz wrote:

Sam,

Is this for the regularly priced $499 single domain license or the regularly priced $649 domain wide license? Posts over on the Alpha Software message board have conflicting info.

http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...l=1#post587839

Thank you,

--Jim

[mheller]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

http://server2.alphasoftware.com/shop/ is the store page.

[mheller]

Re: new ..calendar component in v11

Jeff, Web2Cal does support a trial license for domains. Just email [email protected] and they can generate trial keys that will help you show case the application to your clients.

Suresh is from Web2Cal....