Nice Graphics for V10

[Keith Hubert]

Hi All,

Any one seen this bit of kit, looks like some very nice graphic features that could be incorporated into V10.

Graphics for web pages are very good, only does half of what Alpha does in terms of desktop and costs a lot more. But is still worth a look.

[NoeticCC]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

http://support.alphasoftware.com/Wha...Misc.htm#Using Built-in Alpha Five Images in Web Pages

and extract from the CSS style sheet for the "Vista" system theme:

.A5SuggestionListEntrySelected, .A5SuggestionListEntrySelected .A5SuggestionListKey{
color: #000;
border-top: 1px solid #9adffe;
border-bottom: 1px solid #9adffe;
background: #d6f0fd url('images/$box/$size/1x18/$fill/Gradient_Horizontal:%23247%2B252%2B254%3A%23214%2B240%2B253.png.a5image') repeat-x top;
padding: 2px;
padding-top: 1px;
padding-bottom: 1px;
cursor: default;
}

You can use dynamically created gradient images in Alpha5 web pages in V9 already...

[Steve Wood]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

I don't understand, you can already put any graphics you want in an Alpha application.

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

Hi Steve,

It's not so much as what you can do, but how you can do it.

The interface seems to be more intuitive from a graphical point of view.

[daswunder]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

Keith,

I appreciated very much your link.
Morfik it's quite astonishing to me that I'm not a programmer.
I like very much the GUI too.

Do you think, from a technical side, that it would be possible to merge the graphic side to A5 using two products instead of one ?

Bye
Giovanni

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

Hi Giovanni,

I'm not sure how Morfik works. If it is the same as Alpha and generates the HTML page on the server, which I think it does, then I dont think it will be possible to "merge the graphics".

I suggest you have a go with the free download sample and see what you can achieve.

Please let us know.

[rleunis]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

Keith,

I downloaded and I agree it looks very flashy. One of the things I noticed was USD 499- per developer seat and also they charge a lot for maintenance. See pic.

I will spend coming days to investigate further but I am already frustrated by the fact I can only use 2 or 3 tables and the same amount of forms in the demo download. Demo projects from their wiki site do not work because of this. Also I already find out that earlier applications doe not seem to work in the last version. Which mean they do not spend much effort to be upwards compatible...And I am not sure about the deployment side...What is needed as a webserver...Or can you only deploy using their hosting options?

But I agree the apps look very good and web 2.0 compliant..Although the grid possibilities Alpha has, do not seem to be implemented to the extent we are used to...Very simple record navigation. No complex standard grids. Did not find standard search option also. You have to build it all your own.

This audiance is DATA Driven, not really LOOKS driven. Looks you can create with dreamweaver also...
User base seems to be much less than Alpha at current. Their forum does not seem to have the responsiveness we are used to with Alpha.

final verdict to follow. regards, Ron

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

Graphics for web pages are very good, only does half of what Alpha does in terms of desktop and costs a lot more. But is still worth a look.

After examining this product briefly and somewhat superficially, here are my own findings:

Pros:

• Graphical integrated RAD developer - VERY nice!
• Forms and sub-forms, no less!
• Graphical layout and properties of form objects
• CSS style sheets, themes and gradients, special effects, etc. (simple to implement)
• Calendar object, file uploader, Google Maps access all appear to be built in
• View page or form (to test) in browser of choice - one button click - IE, FF, Safari, Opera & Chrome
• Seems to be very fast!
• Built in javascript & AJAX (just a check box or three) - no futzing around
• Run on desktop through browser (it's not a "desktop" product)
• Compiles & optimizes code
• Supports MySQL, MS-SQL and Oracle backend dbs
• Built-in backup
• Lots of other features
• Morfik's website is apparently built in Morfik; possibly there message board, as well.
• Lots of videos (like Alpha) - product seems very intuitive and easy to setup & use
• Low cost -$499 per developer seat - apparent unlimited deployment

Cons:

• No table lookups supprted as far as I can tell (this is one of the most important features in Alpha, to my mind).
• Built in security appears to be absent?
• Not clear how comprehensive calculated expression(s) support is.
• Report editor seems not be nearly as robust as Alpha's
• Function library probably not as comprehensive as Alpha's(?)
• Hosting requirements not clear - Apache / IIS? VPS/dedicated server required?
• Their message board costs $99/year to participate - but you can read it for free.
• Their message board activity level seems significantly less than Alpha's
• Their documentation seems to be rather limited. Their WiKi is the same as their help file. No books, tutorials, etc. as far as I can see.
• Realtively new product - circa late 2005
• Probably requires a knowledge of (or willingness to learn) Object Pascal or Visual basic.

Other:

• Uses open source Firebird as native db engine
• Comes in two versions: Object Pascal or Visual basic

Bottom Line:
The lack of documentation, particularly tutorials (their WiKi has a "tutorial" section, but they're really not tutorials as one would expect), makes this a product for those w. advanced web development skills (good videos, though). In particular, a knowledge of (or willingness to learn) Object Pascal or Visual basic may be an major stumbling block for many or most. If they come up w. some decent step by step tutorials, it may well be worth another look.

For Alpha:
It would be fantastic if Alpha would somehow implement the concept of a completely integrated web developer. The Morfik integrated/graphical development environment is truly amazing!

[drowelf]

Re: Nice Graphics for V10

I've developed a couple applications in Morfik. What's nice is that due to many years programming visual basic and delphi, the way one get things done in Morfik is VERY intuitive to me. It's almost exactly the same and in fact you get to choose whether to program in visual basic or visual pascal (both object oriented of course). I hardly even needed the helpfile. It's easy to make a database app that looks exactly like a normal desktop app (or whatever you want).

The downsides are
1) The UI-database interface isn't anywhere near (not even close) as capable or optimized as A5. Want a quick example of speed...check out the Morfik Forums...it's built with Morfik. Or build the AlphaSports DB sing Morfik...watch how long it takes.
2) Anything you can do in Morfik (database-wise) I can do at least twice as fast in A5 and I'm not even an A5 expert (compared to Steve Wood I'm an infant). It's not that it is nonintuitive...like I said, it's exactly the way my programmer's brain works...it's just cumbersome.
3) It's significantly more expensive and the community is light years smaller and less responsive.
4) In A5 there are always several ways to get something done. In Morfik, there is usually just 1..it makes it feels very restrictive. I could actually build a much better database driven app using Delphi.
5) There is no security system. You have to program that yourself from scratch...really...and the recommended solution is not as secure or as flexible as the built in A5 system.
5) The server model is kinda neat...you compile to a single executable that acts as the application and the server. This is pretty nice because it lets you get a server up and running without any fuss...but...it's not efficient when you have multiple web apps running at once.

Having said that...it's actually a good idea and lets companies who've already invested in VB or Delphi training to use the same people to produce simple to moderate database apps with little trouble. However, the devil is in the details...once you get past simple, it's going to get really awkward. Although it's a good idea and a fun project...I suspect A5 and others will maintain their power and flexibility while soon gaining all the advantage of Morfik long before Morfik catches up to A5's power.

What I really want is A5 where I can program a A5 desktop app (using the current type of drag and drop environment we have there) and that can either be served on the desktop or the web (and look/act identical) without any additional work.