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New features in Alpha 9

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    New features in Alpha 9

    Anyone have any insight into what the next major release of Alpha might contain?

    #2
    Re: New features in Alpha 9

    I think Steve Wood says he knows, but he hasn't shared it w. us. Usually when you don't hear from the Alpha crew on this board, it means that they are working night & day to get the next version out. Having said that, who knows how far away we are. In the past it has always been 2-years or a lot more between versions - and v8 has only been out for about one-year.
    Last edited by Peter.Greulich; 11-21-2007, 12:26 PM.
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #3
      Re: New features in Alpha 9

      I know naaaathing.
      Steve Wood
      See my profile on IADN

      Comment


        #4
        Re: New features in Alpha 9

        Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
        I know naaaathing.
        said the wise man with a wink. ;)
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #5
          Re: New features in Alpha 9

          My guess is we're going to hear less from the Alpha developers about the next version than we have before. They know they sometimes overpromise because they're so enthused, and they're being a bit more careful about this now.

          If only politicians would learn over the years not to make overblown promises...

          There may be a couple of non-Alpha people out there who know a bit about v9, but I'm not one of them. Previous reading and conversations indicate that a major focus will be to achieve true client-server features/functions.

          But I agree with Peter -- V8 hasn't been out that long. It's pretty early to start expecting much any time soon.
          -Steve
          sigpic

          Comment


            #6
            Re: New features in Alpha 9

            I don't really know any more than what Steve said. There are three or four items on my wish list, but I don't know about any of them for sure. I agree with Peter, when Alpha is most quiet, they are working the hardest on new major features. I'd be happy if version 9 was just a complete tutorial on how to use Version 8 to its maximum capacity!
            Steve Wood
            See my profile on IADN

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              #7
              Re: New features in Alpha 9

              Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
              I'd be happy if version 9 was just a complete tutorial on how to use Version 8 to its maximum capacity!
              Couldn't agree more... There's so many untapped features and functionality in A5V8. I personally use A5V8 as a consolidated front end application rather than a database solution. The tables are used as temporary storage containers for form input data, scanning processes, file management and SQL server backend data management.

              Note:
              I am using all features including WAS in "Right to Left" language set with very few problems related to this when parsing,presenting or editing in A5V8.
              �There is nothing like a dream to create the future.�
              But then again:
              Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing and to steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: New features in Alpha 9

                Hi,
                I�m new in this forum and new to A5. But one thing I heard about 9 the other day from Alpha was that with 9 there will be A5 native DB be "free" of choice. How free "free" are I do not know, but I guess e.g. MySQL will be one of them.
                //Nemo

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                  #9
                  Re: New features in Alpha 9

                  My "new feature" request is just more stability and consistency--especially in the web development areas. I'm sort of "new" to Alpha5 (actually, I used it a bit back in the mid-90's). I've since gotten used to Java open-source tools, so I acknowledge that I may have become a bit spoiled and jaded by now, so please forgive me.

                  I really want to like this package, because I think it is based on some really great concepts. It is amazing how quick and easy it is to throw together certain types of functionality, such as browse grids. I also like the fact Alpha5 is a bit off the beaten path, and a bit of an underdog at this point.

                  But in order to be fully accepted by professional developers brought in to do "heavy lifting" on a project, the coding features need a lot of work. Could we at least have some line numbers in the code editors, just for starts? The Microsoft HTMLEditor ActiveX control is atrociously buggy to the point of being almost unusable (as MS products are wont to be) and needs to be dumped ASAP before it mangles one more line of some poor developer's hard work (...whoops, too late already!).

                  One difficulty I have when developing in Alpha5 is that it is often very difficult to know what the real problem is when you make a coding error. It will often tell you that some bit of syntax is wrong or some variable is undefined without letting you know where or which one. (And sometimes it does tell you, which is nice.) It's very difficult to develop a real-world app, with possibly thousands of lines of code to pore over, when your IDE can't reliably point you to coding errors.

                  The beginnings of some refactoring tools would also be great. It's a pain when you want to rename something like a web component (often to make the name available to a new, incompatible version), and then afterwards have to run around looking for all the parts of your project that are now broken.

                  I might look into building Alpha5 (V10?) the Eclipse platform. So many IDE features that a software developer expects are already built into that package and the many open-source tools that have been built onto it. And it's rock-solid, stability-wise. It's even quite fast, once it's loaded into memory.

                  Overall, I just think Alpha5 needs to be refactored into a more consistent and flexible API. I'm not sure I'll ever nail down the ins and outs of accessing variable data in all the different contexts, such as in a5w pages, dialog and grid events, grid headers and footers, and formatted output on controls. I've seen {var}, <var>, PageVariables.var, Request.Variables.var, [AppSettings.var]. The ? XBasic printing operator doesn't work in certain contexts. What XBasic language features work where is often a mystery. Building huge content management systems for e-commerce in J2EE is easy compared to this. I'm starting to think I'm just not smart enough to do Alpha5 development. Once you get past grids, this stuff gets wicked hard.

                  The overall concept and the GUI features of Alpha5 are great, and don't need to be changed much. It is very easy to do the easy things in Alpha5. That's half the equation. But then when you get to the harder things, it can quickly get frustrating. For Alpha5 to become a world-class database-oriented development system, Alpha needs to step back for a minute and iron out the inconsistencies in the experience for a developer who is being asked to do things that you can't accomplish just by clicking around in the IDE's GUI.
                  Last edited by nordmann; 11-23-2007, 05:29 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: New features in Alpha 9

                    Erik,

                    I hope you don't mind if I comment on your observations; because I think the things you are mentioning are vital to the long term acceptability of Alpha within a more advanced developer community. Its 'outsider' guys like you that can help bring some welcome perspective.

                    I think Alpha Five is on an upward trend towards appealing to Professional Developers. You could always create rock solid applications, but the whole thing seems to be coming together in such an awesome package that is both "easy" at one level, and still comprehensive enough for very demanding situations. This component-driven web application model + ability to use code, once you got rhythm, is like cutting through butter.

                    Getting that rhythm is the hard part and Alpha definitely needs better tools in a few specific areas. The HTML Editor is one area. I know what to avoid, and how to work around most limitations. I also know how to rapidly debug code using the debugger and various tricks. But all of that's from many hours in front of the product.

                    Your last point on flowing between GUI and writing code is right on. There has been lots of attention on the GUI level, probably because it is easy to show and the results are highly functional with only a small amount of work. But writing code is an absolute necessity if you are going to build a meaningful application. The need to, and the ability to "write code" has been held out as a secondary consideration; like it is a difficult task. But that's a misnomer and any professional developer knows it. Code is just as easy as GUI, as long as you know what you want to accomplish, how the code behaves, and what code you need in order to make something work.

                    I think we can fix this part. What we need (I believe) is a clear separation between "professional development" and (I'm not sure what to call it) something other than professional. Professional development acknowledges the need for advanced tools, rigorous training on coding, understanding security and education in general areas such as HTML, API's, etc. Between us (all of the folks here and many that do not frequent the forum) we have all the knowledge we need. We just need to be willing to share it (for free or a fee) with each other and then a means to deliver.

                    With that kind of training, professional developers can come up to speed. And this in turn will encourage Alpha to put more resources into the areas that affect those professional developers.

                    There is an "International Alpha Developers Network" in the works, and this would be the right place to put this kind of training.
                    Last edited by Steve Wood; 11-23-2007, 07:38 PM. Reason: spelling
                    Steve Wood
                    See my profile on IADN

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: New features in Alpha 9

                      Originally posted by nordmann View Post
                      Could we at least have some line numbers in the code editors, just for starts?
                      Right-click menu - see attached image...
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: New features in Alpha 9

                        You're just trying to show off your fancy, properly annotated, code :)
                        Steve Wood
                        See my profile on IADN

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: New features in Alpha 9

                          Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                          You're just trying to show off your fancy, properly annotated, code
                          Truth is, I'm always embarrassed by my code. :o
                          That's why I generally try to hide it - and steal from the masters! :D
                          Peter
                          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                          [email protected]
                          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: New features in Alpha 9

                            Thank you, Steve, for your thoughtful reply.

                            And Peter, oh my gosh, how could I have missed that right-click menu in the code window?! I've been suffering terribly for so long without even noticing it. THANKS!!

                            I agree with Steve's observation about the need for a well-defined separation between the concerns of professional coders and those of the "power users". Power users can define their own de-facto spec by creating a mostly-functional prototype of their app. Alpha5 already does a fine job of this. Then, when there are non-standard business rules or other requirements that require coding, the power user can convey those requirements to the coder within the context of a mostly-working app. This allows the coder to quickly zero in on getting the specialized functionality implemented. But Alpha5's support to the coder has a pretty "raw" feel to it, and I keep running into things that just don't seem to work as documented, or at least not very reliably.

                            Cold Fusion is an example of a system that provides a well-defined boundary between the activities of the HTML coder and those of the business-tier coder. It does this primarily through custom tags that, to the HTML coder, look and feel a lot like plain old HTML tags, but expand to provide computed output. Where that business-domain code "lives" (COM object, Java class, Web Service, etc.) is of no concern to the HTML coder, and can often be changed as needed without disturbing the presentation layer. And with that system, the software engineer can implement business-tier requirements in the language of his or her choice, using whatever tools and IDE's are best suited to the job.

                            But Cold Fusion is web-specific, and still centered on HTML coding, all WYSIWYG editors aside. If Alpha5 could deliver its current GUI solution for desktop development backed by a similarly well-defined interface to back-end business objects that the power-users would just drop onto their forms, then you'd have sort of a "Cold Fusion for the desktop".

                            The Holy Grail would be to also have a "publish to web" functionality that takes as much of the developed desktop app's functionality as is possible (given the huge differences in the two delivery platforms) and makes the app available online. That would be Cold Fusion on steroids. It would be very difficult to implement this to support highly-customized layouts, but the standard Alpha5 grids and forms seem predictable enough that you could translate those to a web-based format to at least provide something that an HTML coder could customize.

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