How about a release?

[Mike Konoff]

Re: How about a release?

This thread is interesting, to say the least.

I started out with Alpha using Alpha Four for DOS. It's manual with examples of the video rental business was extremely helpful to me. Let me reiterate, extremely helpful. I moved on over to A5 and knew my way around because of my A4 experience. Being that I closed my manufacturing related business almost a year ago to the day (thanks to china) I've been completely out of touch with any aspect of A5, and only dabbled in the few years prior because I spent so much time fighting the effects of China.

I am in the process of kicking the tires on a few business ideas and will have to decide, start fresh with A5 or go with a canned accounting package such as Quickbooks. Well, being that A5 is so flexible, it's possible that the choice will be A5.

Personally, I would love to see an A4 like video rental manual written for A5 and all that it offers. What I envision that would be REALLY helpful would be something like 3 flavors of "lesson" manuals. 1) A basic desktop app for a video store, such as the video store solution displayed in A4, 2), a more advanced video store application where members can log into their accounts online, check inventory/stock, and make reservations online for a video while sitting at their PC from home, and 3) Pick something more advanced than that that displays all of A5's advanced bells & whistles.

That would give those brand new to the community a place to start - with manual #1. Intermediates could improve on manual #2. And those who wish to be superman could delve into manual #3.

The difficult part of all this, understandably, is the "rate of change and improvement" to A5 and how Alpha might easily update its' manuals to change with their rapid improvements and newer versions. That might be a trick. Oh...might I add that I prefer a hard-copy manual sitting in front of me to mucking around with one on-screen.

Sorry for the long wind. Figured I'd throw my personal situation in for Alpha to take into consideration because there may be a few other balls of wax out there like me.

[Kevin30-98]

Re: How about a release?

Like it:) And the ability to print it all. Call me a fossil, but I do find paper so much easier for documentation such as tutorials or user manuals.

[Lou Milone]

Re: How about a release?

Like it:) And the ability to print it all. Call me a fossil, but I do find paper so much easier for documentation such as tutorials or user manuals.

I agree. I prefer to have a manual in my hand. I acknowledge it could just be that it's the way us "veteran" I.T. folk are used to working.

Though, I do like being able to search through an electronic document to find specific information. But then if I find it, I may just go back to that spot on the printed version. :)

In terms of your earlier statement: "1 A general collation of all Alpha knowledge into a single searchable place. Alpha have already addressed this for V10 with the new Wiki plan. I look forward to seeing it.".

This has always been the holy grail for all technical people, I think. But it's difficult to pull off. The more functionality a product has, the bigger the documentation - and thus, it becomes trickier to index all of the content in a way that people can find "the specific thing they are looking for right now".

[MikeC]

Re: How about a release?

I'm curious as to what cannot be printed currently? Seems like everything I use from the help can be....

I am also hopeful that the Wiki will provide an easier means for those that need a different format for finding whatever it is they need---it could possibly eliminate some of the more basic questions from being asked on the messageboard. I do not think it would, or even could, replace the messageboard as a knowledgebase though (unless they incorporated the board's information also into it!).

[Kevin30-98]

Re: How about a release?

I'm curious as to what cannot be printed currently? Seems like everything I use from the help can be....

I am also hopeful that the Wiki will provide an easier means for those that need a different format for finding whatever it is they need---it could possibly eliminate some of the more basic questions from being asked on the messageboard. I do not think it would, or even could, replace the messageboard as a knowledgebase though (unless they incorporated the board's information also into it!).

Regarding 'printing' I was agreeing that tutorials and user guides etc. should be easily printable, as opposed to what I think you refer to - easily dumping to paper a specific item from the electronic help? This is especially so for new users.

[MikeC]

Re: How about a release?

I believe the tutorials, user guides, and help file for previous versions are in pdf form now and printing from that format is fairly simple. Over 8000 pages worth.

[Kevin30-98]

Re: How about a release?

I believe the tutorials, user guides, and help file for previous versions are in pdf form now and printing from that format is fairly simple. Over 8000 pages worth.

All True:) The question was will these be rewritten for V10, given the amount of change since these documents were first set down. To which I think the answer is kind of a 'yes' ... though I'm interested how this 'Wiki' will work...

[MikeC]

Re: How about a release?

Good point in that with the efforts appearing to be all toward the new Wiki, is the Online Help going to be updated --as the Wiki will be using it I would think so, but really do not have a clue if it will actually be.

[forskare]

Re: How about a release?

I don't have a printing problem with any of the A5 help. I copy and past it into a word processor and save it in a folder for future recovery. One could also set up a simple database and paste it into a memo field. You could even create a field in which to store 'tags' for an easier search later on.

kenn

[Kevin30-98]

Re: How about a release?

I don't have a printing problem with any of the A5 help. I copy and past it into a word processor and save it in a folder for future recovery. One could also set up a simple database and paste it into a memo field. You could even create a field in which to store 'tags' for an easier search later on.
kenn

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you cannot print help topics ... I was simply talking about preferring to 'learn' from a hard copy manual, tutorials, and hard copy user guides, given the lack of any training courses.

Unless you have a really good multi screen setup (and I do use 2 monitors), for me paper is king when trying to get my head around concepts and working through a tutorial. escpecially when all the while trying things out or sussing why it isn't doing what I thought it should.
E.g.field rules on active link mysql tables - eek!
E.g. what or is there a best way to create complex relationships, lookups and calculated fields without needing fluent Xbasic?

Good up to date help files, searchable PDF's, 'wiki's', whatever, are good for reference and searches (so long are they are upto date). But at least for me this is only good once I know 'what' to look for. i.e. Someone cannot learn to speak another language just from a dictionary no matter how good a linguist they are.

Fair enough, it is unlikely Alpha someone will produce hard copy training or user manuals these days. I'm just hoping that the new version of Alpha5 will have new or up to date documents, and the cherry on top is that they are in a format that I can print?

I simply want to learn good practise and how to develop using the new shortcuts tools and features of the 2009/10 version. E.g. One fantastic new feature I've just spotted above would completely change how I as a beginner would approach a new system i.e. Where do I put field rules... Will that be in the new tutorial for beginners?

[forskare]

Re: How about a release?

Hi Kevin,

You touched on several points.

Good up to date help files, searchable PDF's, 'wiki's', whatever, are good for reference and searches (so long are they are upto date).

While the search function needs to be improved, w/o up to date info, it won't matter. I'm sure Richard is very aware of that and I doubt they would put the effort into WIKI and not have it up to date. As I said before, that ask is more of a challenge than creating v10.

Fair enough, it is unlikely Alpha someone will produce hard copy training or user manuals these days. I'm just hoping that the new version of Alpha5 will have new or up to date documents, and the cherry on top is that they are in a format that I can print?

That's why I copy and paste. It actually accomplishes 2 tasks. I can print it as well as save it for future reference. Saving it to a database allows me to create my own help manual. In other words, I have ready available, the topics that are specific for my needs.

kenn

[Kevin30-98]

Re: How about a release?

Kenn, Thank you. I'm sure you are right that creating and maintaining the documentation is a huge and expensive thing.

I thought that given the new way of working coming up in V10, and with a fresh perspective as an experienced (Ok - old) developer but a complete Alpha 5 beginner, I wanted to wave a flag for us newbie's re V10. Which I think I've done and have been pleased with the passion in some of the replies:) It has encouraged me to stick with it.

Thanks for the copy and paste tip ... Good for making notes, though I doubt I'll be creating my own v10 'getting started', 'intermediate' and 'best practice' manuals etc. anytime soon. Perhaps if I can hang in there, in a few years time I'll come back to that...

[Rudy16]

Re: How about a release?

Richard,
I read somewhere on this site that there would also be a Numeric Search Button Bar included in the Super Controls. Is this true?

[Richard Rabins]

Re: How about a release?

i have not personally checked that out but i believe that is the case

you can download the beta and check it out on our twitter feed

http://twitter.com/alphafive

[DaveM]

Re: How about a release?

With all due respect, it is an assumption to say this because unless there is a followup survey to those purchasers, say 90 to 120 days after purchase, one really doesn't know what they have accomplished with A5.

The problem for Alpha is with a followup survey they may increase the refunds from 1/10th of 1%. That is a big problem with surveys.

There are people who buy stuff and never use it because it is just a little beyond their capabilities.

I am a fairly accomplished programmer and have certainly had my problems working things out in Alpha.

NO, I am not fighting against Alpha!!! I would hate to have to move to another application at this time due to the enormous work it would create for me. YES, they are out there, but not for the beginner. There are sources less expensive and easier to use that are very adequate for the beginner who needs something simple. People tend to buy over their heads much of the time and that is good for Alpha. It is good for us too in the long run.

Steve and others have made very good points in many areas and it looks as though Richard is up on that.

It was easier when we had a few functions and methods to use in a simpler time. Now we have how many built in functions?? Some are used for one area and others are used for other areas. It is difficult to keep up with.

Quote: "for me paper is king when trying to get my head around concepts and working through a tutorial"

I do not think it is possible to have a printed copy of all that is in Alpha today. It would be way do big to be useable or economical.

Better help is needed, but not on paper(except as follows).

I see(as many do) people on here asking questions because their idea of a database(tables) does not work for what they thought would be easy. This is to be expected. What is hard is there is not a readily available printed manual for basic database design like there was in the old dos days. i would settle for that for new users.



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