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Agast at the cost of the v10 University

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  • Agast at the cost of the v10 University

    The above thread is the announcement of the v10 University course. It is a closed thread so I cannot respond there. So here. I am agast at the cost of this "University". I routinely attend medical education conferences presented by world experts in their fields at conferences that cost a 1/4 of the cost of these v10 University sessions. Does anybody have a sense these costs are..... commencerate?
    Mike W
    __________________________
    "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

  • #2
    Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

    Doesn't really seem out of line to me. Most tech seminars that I have attended or have been offered are roughly in the 500-600 per day range, which is why I don't attend many...
    Bill Griffin
    Parkell, Inc

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

      Maybe the price is meant to include hotel room and dinner:D

      In all seriousness they do seem a little high. I guess if no one signs up Alpha will have to re-evaluate the cost. I don't know the philosophy with regards to training. Do they see it as a profit making side of their business? If so they can maybe re-evaluate their margin to what might be perceived as a fairer price. If they do not look at this as a profit making scenario (unlikely) then they need to look at reducing the costs by using a different venue and what is being paid to the lecturer. I suspect this and I'm sure other planned courses are seen as ways to help recover the cost of paying Dr. Martin Heller for preparing the new manual that Richard discussed in another thread.

      All in all it seems a fairly straightforward and sound strategy but like most things getting the price right will be one key factor to success. Many have asked for better training material and Alpha are trying to deliver so I do not want to criticise. Maybe they have the price right and it will be fully booked up, if not I'm sure they will re-evaluate and try and come up with an offer more appealing and affordable to the mainstream users. For me being UK based it will never fall in my range of affordability.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

        The cost seems high as it is not an accredited course. Also the notice is posted in the desktop forum. I did no see any mention of anything other then web development.....
        _______________________________
        Steven McLean
        i3 Home Inspections
        [email protected]

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        • #5
          Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

          That is a very, very good point. The conferences I referenced in the first post that I attend ARE accredited and registered with regulatory agencies. The last is no small cost added to all the costs the course holder has to bear.
          Mike W
          __________________________
          "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

            Originally posted by Bill Griffin View Post
            Doesn't really seem out of line to me. Most tech seminars that I have attended or have been offered are roughly in the 500-600 per day range, which is why I don't attend many...
            Bill is right. Tech seminars (accredited or not) are way overpriced in general. $895 for 2 days = $447.50/day - par for the "course". Unfortunately, for me at least, it's only the latter half of the "advanced" course that begins to get really interesting. But in any case, I trust that this will be real training by Martin Heller (syllabus suggests that it will be), unlike this past summer's 2-day seminar in Burlington, MA billed as "training", but wasn't.
            Peter
            AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

            [email protected]
            https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

              Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
              I trust that this will be real training by Martin Heller (syllabus suggests that it will be), unlike this past summer's 2-day seminar in Burlington, MA billed as "training", but wasn't.
              Despite the cost I would like to attend, and my company is willing to send me... for training.

              The syllabus does look serious and Dr. Heller's bio is impressive, but this would be my first experience with an Alpha Software seminar. Can anybody comment further on Alpha's history with "training" events?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                Originally posted by Mike Wilson View Post
                The above thread is the announcement of the v10 University course. It is a closed thread so I cannot respond there. So here. I am agast at the cost of this "University". I routinely attend medical education conferences presented by world experts in their fields at conferences that cost a 1/4 of the cost of these v10 University sessions. Does anybody have a sense these costs are..... commencerate?
                I just returned from a Tax Seminar in Las Vegas that lasted from Monday though Friday. The presenters were experts in their field; including tax updates for individuals and businesses, estate planning, and financial planning. The cost for the 5 days was $ 1149, so I'd have to say that this is definitely priced higher than it should be. Especially when you take into consideration the cost of airfare and lodging.
                John J. Fatte', CPA
                PRO-WARE, LLC
                Omaha, NE 68137

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                  Originally posted by Kenmann View Post
                  The syllabus does look serious and Dr. Heller's bio is impressive, but this would be my first experience with an Alpha Software seminar. Can anybody comment further on Alpha's history with "training" events?
                  As far as I can recall, the only training I did w. Alpha was 4-5 years back, on the WAS, w. Jerry Brightbill. Jerry is a good instructor and I got a lot out of it. My comment w. respect to this year's seminar was that it was billed as training, but wasn't. It was still worth going to, but then again, I'm local. A number of people who traveled by plane or long distances by car, were not happy campers.

                  But I agree that Dr. Heller has some real gravitas and would expect he would do a bang-up job. I just wished that he offered a course w. more "advanced" subjects - like CSS, using grid events, function calls from grids, etc. These areas really need to be explored in-depth for those of us not expert in those particulars.
                  Peter
                  AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                  [email protected]
                  https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                    Originally posted by Bill Griffin View Post
                    Doesn't really seem out of line to me. Most tech seminars that I have attended or have been offered are roughly in the 500-600 per day range, which is why I don't attend many...
                    Pretty much sums it up. :( I would rather purchase DVD's at a reasonable price and save the airfare, hotel, taxi, food and other expenses. No doubt they would get a lot more takers. :)

                    Additional:

                    I do not know Dr. Heller and no doubt he is very good. However, credentials are one thing and presenting is another. They seem to be packing a ton of stuff into a few days and to get through all that, whew! Too much to even begin to absorb it all even on 'become familiar' basis. Just reading the agenda is almost overwelming for those who haven't ventured into the web part of it.

                    If it's a lecture series, I'll save my money. If it's a hands on, walk ya through it, then I would consider it but not at those prices. I could end up spending some where around $3,500.

                    kenn
                    Last edited by forskare; 12-17-2009, 09:56 PM. Reason: Additional
                    TYVM :) kenn

                    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                      Originally posted by forskare View Post
                      They seem to be packing a ton of stuff into a few days and to get through all that, whew! Too much to even begin to asorb it all even on 'become familiar' basis. Just reading the agenda is almost overwelming for those who haven't ventured into the web part of it.
                      Yes, you are right, there is a lot in v10 web stuff. And most of it is for people who are new to Alpha and/or v10/web. I think the course is perfect for someone who wants to venture into the web side and is not familiar w. it. Like any seminar, it can be relatively demanding, I'm sure. It's kind of an immersion, where you are forced to learn the language by listening and speaking that new language only, I think.
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                        Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                        It's kind of an immersion, where you are forced to learn the language by listening and speaking that new language only, I think.
                        In this case, speaking the language should be hands on, do it on our own laptops and that takes time to do it right. That's why I'd rather have the videos.

                        kenn
                        TYVM :) kenn

                        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                          I have been critical of Alpha in the past but I do think they need credit for taking the time and the effort for setting up the course. Pricing aside this is the right thing for them to do and like everything it will take a bit of time to get the right balance of price and course content. The price is steep for a hobby developer or even maybe for someone that develops for internal company use but if you are thinking of making a living from developing with Alpha then the price probably isn't to far of the mark.

                          That being said the rules of supply and demand hold true. We'll have to see how many are interested at the current pricing structure and course content. From Peters comments it would appear there is an opportunity for a more advanced course to be given.

                          Out of interest what do you all think would be a fair price to pay?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                            Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post
                            Pricing aside this is the right thing for them to do and like everything it will take a bit of time to get the right balance of price and course content. The price is steep for a hobby developer or even maybe for someone that develops for internal company use but if you are thinking of making a living from developing with Alpha then the price probably isn't to far of the mark.
                            I hope my opinions are not taken as being critical of Alpha. I agree whole heartily with you.

                            Originally posted by gmeredith17 View Post
                            Out of interest what do you all think would be a fair price to pay?
                            What I think is a fair price is only what I think is fair to me and that is extremely biased. We all have "our" fair price. The only fair price is to compare it to other similar training. Perhaps Alpha has done that. However, as you say, it's supply and demand. The supply is there but is the demand there? I do know this, $100 off for early bird registration is not enough to get me to bite. My concern is not the lack of subjects. This is a well thought out course and past training being what it was compared to what it was billed to be......That's a lot of money, time and energy to attend a week long course and come away wondering what did I really learn?

                            I think Alpha should have made the price half of what it is for the first time around. They need to establish a reputation on quality training before establishing a high price. No matter the price, those who do go, are, to some degree, putting out a lot of money for and unknown product; the unknown product being the training, not A5. Ya gotta admit, there is a ton of stuff to cover. While they do show some labs, (labs take time) lectures and handouts don't cut it, at least not for me.

                            A better course layout would be to show:

                            Day 1 PM
                            1:00 to 1:30 Detail views
                            1:30 to 2:00 Demonstration: Detail views (Customers with updateable detail view, Customers Single Record detail with CRUD)
                            2:00 to 2:30 Lab: Detail views Search parts, kinds of searches, quick search, alphabet buttons, query by form, cascading lookup
                            2:30 to 3:00 Lab: search parts

                            3:3:15 Break

                            3:15 to 4:00 Grid styles, shading, dividers, options, record navigation, update settings, detail view options
                            4:00 to 4:30 Lab: Grid styles and options Kinds of grid fields, field properties
                            4:30 to 5:00 Lab: Products detail, Categories detail, Orders updateable
                            5:00 to ?? Questions

                            Now, that is a schedule I can begin to get my mind wrapped around. However, I've helped plan and put together a lot of training and conferences over the last 20 years and that is a schedule that cannot be kept. There is too much for the time alloted which means something has to be dropped or many items given lip service. I don't know about you, but it makes no difference what the cost, I want to walk away with a feeling, "Wow, that was great. I really learned alot and it was worth every dime". From what info Alpha has provided, there's little chance of that and even at 1/4th the price, it's too much. Alpha also needs to remember, there is plane fare, hotel, meals and other misc expenses. If I had to sell this to my management, it wouldn't sell as presented. Management wants to know, (I want to know) beyond the claims of Alpha, what they will get for the money.

                            kenn
                            TYVM :) kenn

                            Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Agast at the cost of the v10 University

                              For non accredited courses about 200 per day with 20-25% discount for the full week.
                              _______________________________
                              Steven McLean
                              i3 Home Inspections
                              [email protected]

                              Comment

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