ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

[rmcgaffic]

Any ideas of why A5V10 is ignoring a property setting
for an ActiveX control? My example is extremely simple.

I want to a grid control to allow data entry, that is
NOT to be read only. I am using A5V10 with an ActiveX
control exGrid from http://www.exontrol.com.

Here is Microsoft Access code that works perfectly for
Sub Form_Load():

Me.Grid1.Columns.Add ("My column heading")
Me.Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.EditType = 1

Me.Grid1.ReadOnly = 0

Me.Grid1.Items.AddItem ("AAA")
Me.Grid1.Items.AddItem ("BBB")
Me.Grid1.Items.AddItem ("CCC")

Picture 1 shows this form's initial load
Picture 2 shows this form after successfully editing

Let's see how A5V10 behaves using the following
code for the form's OnInit event, which is essentially unchanged
except for removing the me.

dim global Grid1 As P
Grid1 = Activex1.ActiveX.this

Grid1.Columns.Add("My column heading")
Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.EditType = 1

Grid1.ReadOnly = 0 

Grid1.Items.AddItem("AAA")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("BBB")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("CCC")

When I run my Alpha form I can not edit the text.
A5V10 appears to be frozen and shown in picture 3.

Here's the documentation for the ReadOnly property:

Name:  ExReadWrite
Value: 0
Description: (boolean False) The control allows changes.
The user can use the cell's editor to change the cell's
value.

Picture 4 shows the controls's XBasic to set
ActiveX properties code. Note that the default is already
set to zero, so my code to set it to zero was not necessary.

I've even tried
Grid1.ReadOnly = .F.
which doesn't work either.

Is this a bug?

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

PS: Take a look at Exontrol's site featuring The eXSuite package contains more than 40 components, with over 200 objects, 9,000 functions, and more than 3,000,000 lines of source code.

This appears to be one of the very few control houses left which offer a fairly complete set of ActiveX controls, and guess what AlphaFive Developers -- there is NO expiration date to the evaluation use of any of their controls. Read about their company policy.

They don't want you to buy anything until you
have fully satisfied yourself that it will meet your needs and
they realize that this often can not be done in 30 days.

As I wrote weeks ago, I have seen the exGrid control
used in another application http://www.infoqube.biz and think we have found a control that will allow Alpha developers
interested in Outlining to finally achieve what they want --using the exGrid control which permits editable hierarchical trees to be displayed within a grid.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Filed as a bug report tonight.

Will report back any resolution when received from Alpha.

It is absolutely critical that A5 easily work with industrial grade ActiveX controls from such firms as Codejock, DBI-Tech, and Exontrol.

It's kind of discouraging/frustrating to run into such a basic problem as this.

I hate to think of filing a bug report on each of exGrid's hundreds of properties and events, but I will if I have to.


Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

[Selwyn Rabins]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Filed as a bug report tonight.

It is absolutely critical that A5 easily work with industrial grade ActiveX controls from such firms as Codejock, DBI-Tech, and Exontrol.

It already does. The property grid in a5 is the codejock property control. The toolbox in the layout editor is the codejock toolbox. Several users are using the codejock calendar control.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Selwyn,

I may have been the first Alpha Forum member to attempt to use the Codejock calendar control a year or two ago. I reported a problem that Dr. Peter Wayne was able to confirm as a bug, and Alpha fixed it promptly and included it in V10. The bug was that A5V9 simply would not react to the double click event on the Codejock calendar.

Before I will report an ActiveX problem, I try to be careful not only to describe how to replicate the problem in A5, but also furnish a MS Access application to do exactly the same thing, thereby hopefully eliminating the control itself as issue.

I submitted last night a bug report and zipped Alpha and Access databases for the tech team's review.

One reason why Exontrol's offerings may be very useful to Alpha Developers is that they can prototype for as long as they want with a full (not crippled) control, which bears a nag screen reminder as shown in my screen shots.

May I try the product before I buy?
Yes. All Exontrol products are available for an 
unlimited time evaluation. Customers are encouraged
to fully evaluate the software prior to purchasing
a software license. Evaluation software may be downloaded 
from the Exontrol web site, is fully functional, and 
includes complete online documentation. During the 
evaluation period, you can contact technical support here. 
Exontrol believes strongly that no customer should have
to buy software in order to find out how well it works. 
Software purchases should be based on thorough evaluation
of the most current, fully functional technology. Users
should be able to test every feature of a software package
for functionality and compatibility. Exontrol software 
can be evaluated with no limitations in capabilities.

You recently sent out a email asking for users to submit their A5V10 applications for a showcase. So maybe you might enjoy
the eye candy at http://www.exontrol.com/gallery.jsp.

I look forward to working with your team to allow to allow
Alpha developers to develop killer applications using ActiveX controls of this quality.

By way of background, I have spent over a month working with DBI-Tech's and Bennett-Tech's Grid and TList controls before concluding that they simply lacked the full functionality needed to replicate outlining in an application.

What excites me about exontrol's grid is that I actually have seen it used in an application (Visual Studio) that I would love to replicate parts of with Alpha Five.

That application is http://www.infoqube.biz/Home,

Download and watch the install. Yes, your eyes are right! It's installing the Codejock calendar. It's also installing the exontrol Grid. Finally, look at the contact information -- we can do much better than this using Alpha Five, can't we?

There you have the pieces to the first Alpha Five PIM (Personal information manager) -- something Filemaker, Access, and the like can't offer. Alpha Software's answer to Bento!

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

[Selwyn Rabins]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

You have this:

dim global Grid1 As P
Grid1 = Activex1.ActiveX.this
Grid1.Columns.Add("My column heading")
Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.EditType = 1
Grid1.ReadOnly = 0 
Grid1.Items.AddItem("AAA")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("BBB")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("CCC")

Change your code to this:

dim global Grid1 As P
Grid1 = Activex1.ActiveX.this
Grid1.Columns.Add("My column heading")
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.EditType = 1
Grid1.ReadOnly = 0 
Grid1.Items.AddItem("AAA")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("BBB")
Grid1.Items.AddItem("CCC")

1. Xbasic uses [] for arrays.
2. Xbasic arrays are 1 based, not 0 based.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Thanks, Selywn. I'll give your suggestion a try tonight.

According to the A5V10 documentation an array's first element can be either 0 or 1, so trying to minimize changes from the Visual Basic/Studio world, I used 0 rather than 1.

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

Arrays

To store a series of data values of the same data type together under the
same variable name, declare the variable as an array. Arrays are useful for
collecting and processing lists of information. They must be explicitly defined
with the DIM statement before they are used. The declaration must include
the Array Size which is the maximum number of data elements the array will
contain.

For example, the following statements declare an array of character strings
holding five elements:
dim names[5] as C
dim names[1..5] as C
dim names[0..4] as C 

It is possible to dim multiple array dimensions in one statement.
dim arr.row[1..10].col[1..5].edited as C
 

Note : The first element of an array can be 0 or 1.

[csda1]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

According to the A5V10 documentation an array's first element can be either 0 or 1, so trying to minimize changes from the Visual Basic/Studio world, I used 0 rather than 1.

dim names[5] as C
dim names[1..5] as C
dim names[0..4] as C 
....
Note : The first element of an array can be 0 or 1.

Yes you can dimension an array starting at a base of 0, if you dimension it explicitly starting at 0, as in

dim names[0..4] as C

Otherwise the default starting base is 1. Nothing happens by magic!

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Thanks, Ira for your clarification.

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh

[Selwyn Rabins]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Ira is correct.

When you dim your own xbasic array, you can specify the range of index values.

e.g.

dim a[0..5]

creates a 0 based array with 6 entries

and

dim a[-3..3] creates an array with 7 entries where the first index is -3

But in the case of an ActiveX object, you are NOT dimming the array. The array already exists in the COM object and Xbasic is letting you reference it. In this case, the Xbasic array is always 1 based.

More accurately stated, Xbasic adds one to the array index.

So a COM array that is 0 based becomes 1 based to Xbasic.

But if for some odd reason, the COM object created an array that went from -3 to +3, then to Xbasic, the array indexes would go from -2 to +4.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Selwyn and Ira,

Thank you for explaining key differences between Visual Basic and Alpha Five as pertains to ActiveX controls.

By incorporating your suggestion, I am pleased to report that the Exontrol grid now permits the editing of tree nodes and items. Unfortunately, another problem has surfaced.

Two lines of code later, and I’ve encountered another
problem where what works in Microsoft Access doesn’t work
in Alpha Five.

Because screen prints don’t well demonstrate the problem, here's a link to a Jing Video:

http://screencast.com/t/NWExYjI3N

The code is identical with these three differences:

1. Changing True to .t.
2. Changing the array from ( ) to [ ]
3. Changing the designation of the first
column from 0 to 1.

Here’s the code behind the MS Access form.

Private Sub Form_Load()
  Grid1.Appearance = 0                          
  Grid1.Columns.Add ("Column Heading")
  Grid1.ReadOnly = 0
  Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.EditType = 1           
  Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.Appearance = 8        
  Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.Option(45) = True     
  Grid1.Columns(0).Editor.Option(48) = -1         
  Grid1.Items.AddItem ("AAA")
  Grid1.Items.AddItem ("BBB")
  Grid1.Items.AddItem ("CCC")
  Grid1.Items.AddItem ("DDD")
  Grid1.Items.AddItem ("EEE")
End Sub

Here’s the code behind the A5V10 form for the OnInit event:

dim global Grid1 As P
Grid1 = Activex1.ActiveX.this
Grid1.Appearance = 0                            
Grid1.Columns.Add ("Column Heading")
Grid1.ReadOnly = 0
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.EditType = 1            
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Appearance = 8          
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(45) = .T.      
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(48) = -1       
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("AAA")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("BBB")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("CCC")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("DDD")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("EEE")

Why does Microsoft Access work and Alpha
Five does not? I would appreciate if anyone
could point out any errors on my part
before I submit this to the BugDesk at
Alpha.

Below is background for why the above is an issue.

We are ready to take our exploration one step further
and actually begin to configure an an “ouliner” built
with Alpha Five. We would like to model the behavior
of a vintage outliner nammed ECCO, familiar to
many forum members.

The screen print shows that Alpha Five can
accommodate an editable hierarchical tree, which
is the basis for most brainstorming, outlining, and
project management software on the market today.

Ecco behaves like Microsoft Office products for
editing. Users of Microsoft Office are used to certain
conventions in working with text editing and outliners like MS
Word and MS Powerpoint. As you move from one
line to the next, the text’s background color is unchanged.

Furthermore, users naturally expect that by pressing the
enter/carriage return key will return them to the next
line without the need to click or double click on that line.
In Excel, for example, you do not need to click on
next line; again, pressing enter/carriage return will
do the job.

This is different from the behavior of the tree control
used by Microsoft’s Windows Explorer. Microsoft’s
tree can be edited, but it first requires clicking on
a tree node, which when selected then changes color
(white fore/blue back color), then changes color
again to black fore/white back and allows new text
to be entered.

So my objective here is simply to allow users to
use Alpha Five without giving up any of the easy
to use features they expect for text editing.

Now I don't expect anyone to understand the details of the
control's editor option properties. I take to heart
Dr. Peter Wayne counsel in his XBasic book on using
ActiveX controls: that for the most part you don't
have to understand them at a detailed level to use
them productively.

The values of parameters should not change whether
one uses MS Access, Visual Foxpro, or Alpha Five.

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

PS: I need to work on my jing skills, the link is obviously not production quantity, but hopefully still is a useful demonstration.

[gmeredith17]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Bob,

I'm not sure you will find a solution to your problem but I have to say I wouldn't find it annoying. In some ways it might be preferable as it clearly shows what line you are on. Just because Microsoft do it one way it doesn't mean its always the best way. I fully appreciate keeping to standard behaviour helps users but this particular issue seems somewhat minor to me and as a user of many pieces of software I cannot imagine it annoying me if I was using an application that behaved in this manner.

If that is the only issue with this control then its great that Alpha5 developers have a professional outliner tool at their disposal.

Geoff

[rmcgaffic]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Geoff,

I have spent two months evaluating grid controls which permitted editable trees to find one
that was sophisticated enough to give the appearance I'm trying to achieve.

I reviewed carefully DBI-tech's ctTree and Bennett-Tec's TList8 controls, which were close but no-cigar, before I stumbled on Exontrol.

What these people have done is simply amazing and for the first time I see that truly commercial quality software might be possible
with Alpha Five. Their tech support is amazing, replies in less than 15 minutes!

Many Alpha developers simply accept the limitations of Alpha's controls.
For many applications, they are just fine. But the only reason why I considered Alpha Five in the first place was the criterion that
appears as line 2 on their Competitive products comparison grid: ActiveX controls. And this is why after toying with FileMaker, I dropped it.

For home or hobby use, I agree -- who cares. But if you want to create a
commercial grade application with Alpha Five, it does matter. Considering that Microsoft Office and Open Office together account
for near 100% of the text editing market, user expectations for text editing are fairly established.

If no one can find an error in what I've done, I'll report it as bug tomorrow to Alpha.

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

[csda1]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Hi Bob,

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd bet it is the negative 1 value.

Alpha may be converting it to a large integer value that represents a negative 1 like, where the control may be looking for less bits set because it is a smaller integer. So while Alpha may be setting it to value FFFFFFFF hex (double word -1), it may want 0000FFFF hex. If something like this is the case, this could be solved by ANDing value with something like

(-1) .and. ((2^16)-1)

[Kurt Rayner]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Hi Rob,

You are still addressing arrays as functions (see the bolded assignment to "Option(45)" - and presumably still zero based).

If fixing this does not make the control work, please submit a bug report.

Thanks,

Kurt

dim global Grid1 As P
Grid1 = Activex1.ActiveX.this
Grid1.Appearance = 0
Grid1.Columns.Add ("Column Heading")
Grid1.ReadOnly = 0
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.EditType = 1
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Appearance = 8
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(45) = .T.
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(48) = -1
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("AAA")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("BBB")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("CCC")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("DDD")
Grid1.Items.AddItem ("EEE")

[csda1]

Re: ActiveX control property setting ignored by A5V10, but OK with MS Access

Hi Rob,

Hi Rob,

You are still addressing arrays as functions (see the bolded assignment to "Option(45)" - and presumably still zero based).
......
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(45) = .T.
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option(48) = -1

Which means the lines should be

Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option[46] = .T.
Grid1.Columns[1].Editor.Option[49] = -1