Confused with possible reports limitation

[Cyclones]

Hey everyone,

I'm contemplating purchasing A5 using the current subscription model to re-develop some desktop software for some of my clients. The system would include Work Orders, Invoices, Schedules, Reports... A5 seems to fit the bill with all of that except for possibly the Invoice and Work Order Templates wich of course would be reports on their own. My clients/end users would need the ability to Add, Delete and Modify these reports within what i supply them with. I assume the Runtime. I see at one time there was a version called Runtime Plus which looks like it had that ability but after talking to A5 sales today they said..

"I did get a response regarding the users ability to modify templates/invoices. This is not possible as each user would be changing the application. The users would be able to add data into the system but not able to modify the application."

If this is a limitation how are others working with this as my clients change their invoice templates even a little almost weekly?
One other question. If I purchase the subscription plan, does that cover everything? No other expenses for add-ons or licensing?

Thanks for any insight you can give to me on this.

[Ted Giles]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Mike, you will need to give them a full development copy but lock down the bits you don't want changed by password protecting them if you need the users to be able to change the Invoice and Work Order templates.
That way you keep control of the tables and sets, while they can do whatever they wish creating invoice layouts.
Suggest you don't allow them to fiddle with the tables, so you need to do a fair amount of analysis to determine the database schema.

My Invoicing app has to accommodate VAT and Non VAT (Sales Tax) clients, and also allows them to create their own by-lines ("We are the best in the UK!" type stuff) and their own logo on the printed/mailed Invoices and Statements. This is easily done but took some in-depth analysis to get the ducks all in a row.

The subscription plan is obviously your choice and is good value IMHO if you plan to use all the features. If not, you might want to consider buying just the bits you need.
Check out the licensing charges for the Web Server.

[Cyclones]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Thanks Ted,

I appreciate the quick reply. If I'm not mistaken, I can kind of hide the fact that they are using Alpha Five by using the runtime and changing names and logo's. By giving them the full development version is there any way of hiding it then?

When you explained that you had to allow them to make changes did you ultimately find a solutions that allowed you to have them make modifications but still use a runtime OR do you have to provide a full develpment version with yours as well?

Mike

[Ted Giles]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

No full dev option - only the Runtime. The trick is to pre-empt client's requirements so that most of the bases are covered. Using calculated fields, it's possible to have a "base" table with all the fripperies in it which makes the presentation personal. Also helps when marketing, as the Product them becomes generic.

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Hi Mike,

There is no need to give your clients access to the full developer just to allow then to create their own reports. It is a good idea to install the full version on their system which would enable you to make changes to the application when requested by the client.

In the runtime documentation there is code to allow the runtime user to create their own reports and also code to prevent installed reports from being edited or written over.

Let me know when you get it.

[Raymond Lyons]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

... My clients/end users would need the ability to Add, Delete and Modify these reports within what i supply them with. I assume the Runtime. I see at one time there was a version called Runtime Plus which looks like it had that ability but after talking to A5 sales today they said..

"I did get a response regarding the users ability to modify templates/invoices. This is not possible as each user would be changing the application. The users would be able to add data into the system but not able to modify the application."

If this is a limitation how are others working with this as my clients change their invoice templates even a little almost weekly?

Mike, who told you that the Runtime Plus, which allows users to make changes to reports, is no longer available? To quote Selwyn Rabins:

Have no idea why someone would be saying this. It is total rubbish.

That is, the Plus features are now just part of the runtime version. Since I have done it, I know you can allow users to create, modify and delete reports. I doubt you can do that with forms but I am not sure since I never had that need. In my case I do have a number of reports users can't touch, and as I recall setting that up was a bit tricky and thus probably not worth going to the trouble. Another tricky aspect to this involves shadow DB's. If the users run a shadow I seem to recall having to create a way for them to switch to the master DB, make their changes and then up the version # of the shadow update routine--and in my case give the user making the changes a way to refresh and go back to their shadow DB when they finish with their changes. It has been quite a while since I did any of this, so don't ask me remember the details.

I hope this helps at least a bit.

Raymond Lyons

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Hi Mike,

I just noticed this, which Raymond had picked up on:

my clients change their invoice templates even a little almost weekly

My comment, this is not very good business practice. As a business man, I would need to understand why my client needed to do that so often.

The idea of allowing the end user access to creating and modifying documents that can be printed, was to give them a certain amount of autonomy from the developer, saving time and money in the long run.

[Cyclones]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

No full dev option - only the Runtime. The trick is to pre-empt client's requirements so that most of the bases are covered. Using calculated fields, it's possible to have a "base" table with all the fripperies in it which makes the presentation personal. Also helps when marketing, as the Product them becomes generic.

Sorry about taking so long to reply. Long weekend here.

I was thinking about taking the same route, using an extra table to get preferences and such.

[Cyclones]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Hi Mike,

There is no need to give your clients access to the full developer just to allow then to create their own reports. It is a good idea to install the full version on their system which would enable you to make changes to the application when requested by the client.

In the runtime documentation there is code to allow the runtime user to create their own reports and also code to prevent installed reports from being edited or written over.

Let me know when you get it.

Thanks for that info Keith, that sounds great. Do you know if there is any information on their website that will support what you said? It's not that I don't believe you, but that I have no way so far of proving it to myself before purchasing and of course Sales already said it wouldn't work. Unfortunately I've made my fair share if mistakes purchasing software in the past thinking it will do something that it won't.

[Cyclones]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Mike, who told you that the Runtime Plus, which allows users to make changes to reports, is no longer available? To quote Selwyn Rabins: That is, the Plus features are now just part of the runtime version. Since I have done it, I know you can allow users to create, modify and delete reports. I doubt you can do that with forms but I am not sure since I never had that need. In my case I do have a number of reports users can't touch, and as I recall setting that up was a bit tricky and thus probably not worth going to the trouble. Another tricky aspect to this involves shadow DB's. If the users run a shadow I seem to recall having to create a way for them to switch to the master DB, make their changes and then up the version # of the shadow update routine--and in my case give the user making the changes a way to refresh and go back to their shadow DB when they finish with their changes. It has been quite a while since I did any of this, so don't ask me remember the details.

I hope this helps at least a bit.

Raymond Lyons

It was a sales rep that had stated that i wouldn't be able to give access to my clients to create reports using the runtime. That was after he had asked someone else.

I will probably using shadow DB's as well since I can see some of my clients networking this on their own Lan. Is there a lot of documentation, examples or videos showing me how to do this?

It definitely does help out. Thanks for your input.

[Cyclones]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Hi Mike,

I just noticed this, which Raymond had picked up on:My comment, this is not very good business practice. As a business man, I would need to understand why my client needed to do that so often.

The idea of allowing the end user access to creating and modifying documents that can be printed, was to give them a certain amount of autonomy from the developer, saving time and money in the long run.

Hi Keith,

It's generally just graphical stuff that they like to play around with, swapping out logo's, changing field positions or even which fields show on the Invoice Template. I'm guessing that they have too much free time on their hands.

Mike

[Keith Hubert]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Hi Mike,

Do you know if there is any information on their website that will support what you said

Email direct and I can send you the documentation.

[Raymond Lyons]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Thanks for that info Keith, that sounds great. Do you know if there is any information on their website that will support what you said? It's not that I don't believe you, but that I have no way so far of proving it to myself before purchasing and of course Sales already said it wouldn't work. ...

I am not Keith but if Selwyn Rabins says the sales rep was incorrect (see the quote in my post above), you can take that to the bank. I don't have V11 so when you quoted the sales rep it made me worry that the Plus features had been dropped, something that would make one of my clients furious for future work on his application. That's why I asked Richard and Selwyn about it. I am attaching the runtime documentation file for V10.5 which is probably identical to what is in V11. This will allow anyone interested in the Plus features to see what is available. Good luck.

Raymond Lyons

[DaveM]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

I appreciate the quick reply. If I'm not mistaken, I can kind of hide the fact that they are using Alpha Five by using the runtime and changing names and logo's. By giving them the full development version is there any way of hiding it then?

Ask the rep about branding? If I am not mistaken, you can still get it and it is about ?100.00 . It could be well worth it to you.

As far as giving a customer a way to make their own reports, it is in the runtime now. I would not want them making other stuff, but a retport?.../?... Maybe

The web server is per hosted server. In other words, if you have you web server set up on GoDaddy.com and a new costomer wants the same thing, it means another server for his site on namecheap.com

[Ted Giles]

Re: Confused with possible reports limitation

Mike, The screens below show how I handle the Logo bit in my Invoicing App.
The user can change the logo, by-line, pay to, company details etc and see what it looks like before committing.

Preview.png
CompanyDetails.JPG

Hi Keith,

It's generally just graphical stuff that they like to play around with, swapping out logo's, changing field positions or even which fields show on the Invoice Template. I'm guessing that they have too much free time on their hands.

Mike