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Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

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  • #16
    Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

    Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
    Another option. Again IMHO

    I have an app which runs in situations with mutually exclusive tax calculations and invoices.
    I have a Logical Field which indicates the type of tax calc, and the forms I use reflect this. The underlying data is the same with only a few (about 2) redundant fileds in one situation and no redundant fields in the other.

    2 workspaces? Only if you are a glutton for punnishment or have two completely separate applications with one common dataset.

    BTW. A Navigation Bar (in V10.5) stays open all the time in Alpha so you could - if you really wanted to - have a Nav Bar with the different databased accessed that way.
    Hi Ted. I'm aware that I could accommodate my son's Retail and Wholesale businesses in a single workspace. However it's not programmed that way. I don't have record codes (e.g. R for Retail, W for Wholesale) to help facilitate this. In the past when he entered the Wholesale business I copied over all the A5 files to a separate folder and used a subset of its objects without change, because change wasn't necessary. It was easy. All objects in both directories have the same names as each other. The data in the 3 tables was the difference. Different customers, different invoices. I changed the cosmetics of the menu and the form headers to help my son visually differentiate the two segments.

    I felt that to integrate these two businesses into a common "workspace" would imposed an untenable amount of development time and was unnecessary, albeit nice to have. My aim was to convert his application to a 32bit Alpha and have if run perfectly and correctly, without error.

    Are you faulting me for doing it this way, Ted? If so, remember that in Version 1 doing what I was doing was seamless. My Apps menu in Retail linked to the Apps menu in the Wholesale directory. A button's function on the Wholesale directory interacted by default with that directories files. Never a crossover or problem. In fact, both directories' menus sat side by side in Alpha 5. There was no concept of a "workspace". I'm only trying to make Version 11 provide a similar seamless interface.

    With this as background do you feel I'm wrong in some basic way? Do you think I'm being lazy? If you do, Ted, please know I'm not a developer, I've been away from A5 for 15 years pursuing different interests. My interest now in Alpha 5 is rescuing my son from 16bit software that has become unwelcome in the 64bit technology of the 21st century.

    Ted, I respect your opinion. Please expound on your view that I may be a "glutton for punishment". What punishment should I anticipate? Will this be a performance nightmare on any but the largest of computers? Will this, in your view, be a maintenance nightmare? Please explain the price that you think will be exacted from me.

    Also, please explain the benefit of the Navigation Bar and how that may help me.

    I look forward to any comments you may have, Ted.

    Regards ... Sam

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

      Sam,
      I'm judging that at this juncture, we would have to see an example of what you have going before we could provide much more suggestion, guidence or alternative. Any chance you could post a minimalist copy of the app?

      The outstanding benefit of the the two instance approach is that all my objects (tables, forms, scripts, reports ...) are identical for my son's Retail and Wholesale businesses. The only thing that would be different would be the contents of the customer and invoice tables. I would, of course, change some colors, menu and form headings etc. in some way so my son would always know which window he was in.
      This being said, it sounds like two different forms - one wholesale and one retail. I guess I'm not understanding what is the flip-flop that you are trying to avoid and how it can be avoided if it is two different looks/forms.
      Last edited by Mike Wilson; 09-25-2012, 01:36 PM.
      Mike W
      __________________________
      "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

        Woah! Back the trolly up Sam!
        If you are offended by my remarks, I apologise. Plough your own furrow and ride over the bumps.
        It's your application so you must do it your way. We all have preferences, and someone who does it the way you are planning is Tom Henkel.
        The glutton for punishment comment is meant to infer that you seem to have harnessed new technology without necessarily embracing the benefits.
        V1 to V11 is akin to Props and Jets.

        Build yourself a nav bar and see.
        Code/New/Toolbar of take the Alpha Sports app apart and see how it works.
        See our Hybrid Option here;
        https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


        There are 3 things you can do in any situation;
        Live with it, Change it or Walk away from it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

          Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
          Woah! Back the trolly up Sam!
          If you are offended by my remarks, I apologise. Plough your own furrow and ride over the bumps.
          It's your application so you must do it your way. We all have preferences, and someone who does it the way you are planning is Tom Henkel.
          The glutton for punishment comment is meant to infer that you seem to have harnessed new technology without necessarily embracing the benefits.
          V1 to V11 is akin to Props and Jets.

          Build yourself a nav bar and see.
          Code/New/Toolbar of take the Alpha Sports app apart and see how it works.
          Ted, I'm not upset with you but I did feel somewhat criticized. Being a glutton for punishment implies that there's bad news in store and I wanted to know what you thought that was. Your recent remark about plowing my own furrow and ride over the bumps again implies, to me anyway, that my approach is inferior. What "bumps".

          Couldn't you just leave it at "Your way works, Sam, and shouldn't present any performance issues."

          I don't know Tom Henkel but obviously you respect him and that's good for me to hear.

          I'll try the nav bar and see if it does anything for me.

          --- Sam

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

            Originally posted by Mike Wilson View Post
            Sam,
            I'm judging that at this juncture, we would have to see an example of what you have going before we could provide much more suggestion, guidence or alternative. Any chance you could post a minimalist copy of the app?

            This being said, it sounds like two different forms - one wholesale and one retail. I guess I'm not understanding what is the flip-flop that you are trying to avoid and how it can be avoided if it is two different looks/forms.
            Thanks for writing Mike. Here's what I meant by "flip/flop''. In Version 1 I have my Retail files in one directory and Wholesale files in another. We don't call them workspaces. I have a menu for each directory available to me side by side in a single A5 session. When a selection is made from Wholesale's menu it "flips" to the directory where its files are stored. Therefore the files can and do have exactly the same names in each directory.

            I was hoping I could do the very same thing in V11. For whatever these graphics are worth to you or anyone, here's my Retail menu and my Wholesale menu. You will notice that the Wholesale menu is a subset of Retail and uses 100% identical table and set definitions (just different data) and identical forms, reports, labels, and scripts.

            Retail Menu:
            GCX_Retail_Menu .jpg
            Wholesale Menu:
            GCX_Wholesale_Menu .jpg

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

              Sam,

              We have grown our Systems from ver1 through ver 5 and are now running quite nicely on ver 10.5. The upfront effort may be fairly large, but rethinking your applications after 15 years might be just what the Dr. ordered.

              When we jumped from ver1 to ver 5, it was a HUGE change. Going from Card stacks to Forms, etc. was somewhat confusing at first, but it actually did make our multifaceted system cleaner, easier to navigate, and maintain. There is no reason that I can see to have 2 separate systems. You can accomplish this with one main "calling" database that allows you to go to either the wholesale or retail application and back again seamlessly. Our main Calling application loads any number of applications and they in turn can call other sub applications, all returning nicely back to the main menu. It took quite a bit of work, and some serious "sit down and think" time, but now, it works very well. Ver 1 was great, but the added capabilities of the newer versions justify a close look at revamping things.

              Tom

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                Sam -

                I am currently running 19 databases all 19 are exact copies of each other. The only difference is the data stored in the tables. To expand on the previous thought of "glutton for punishment" the issue I run into is making a change in one database results in making a change in 18 other databases. Propagating the change across the other 18 databases is where the "glutton for punishment" comes into play. I spend more time documenting the change, writing scripts to make the change, and coping over the changed data dictionaries than I do actually designing and testing the change.

                If I was to redo this project from the ground up I would absolutely design it as one database using filters on tables, forms, browses, and reports etc. To limit the viewed data to only the client with which we were working.
                Andrew

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                  I have a large database all the way from dos versions to 10.5. It handles retail auto sales and wholesale auto sales. The only difference in the input is the forms. There is a retail side that encompasses sales to retail customers. There is another form for wholesale to those that buy on that level. No seperate tables or folders involved.

                  A runtime can have the same adb opened twice(at the same time) with one being ws and the other retail.

                  To further confuse things(for me) was that retail can include the following - cash, buy here pay here, bank finance or leasing. These are all handled on the retail form by using switches. I can also seperate the dealerships by a number(capable of handling to 99 dealerships in one shared app) with each having it's own inventory and customers. This is all one app in one shared folder.

                  It is not logical to me to use seperate folders/apps/adbs/tables when the general merchadise is all by one company.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                    Sam: I see you are still beating the same 'dead horse'. Certainly, that is your option, but after I spent almost four hours with you over the phone, running a remote session to SHOW you how to fix your program, and even after offering to go remote on your computer to fix it for you, you are still asking the same questions, and insisting upon getting the answer you want, regardless of the advice I and other professional developers have given you. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE ANSWER YOU WANT! This is version 11, not A5V1....completely different animals. Normally, I would not post here regarding this issue, but your obvious inability to take advice from those who know how to fix your issue is beginning to piss me off. The professional developers on this board provide answers FREE OF CHARGE to try to help those with less knowledge and experience get the best results from their efforts. I would suggest that you do what has been suggested by me, and the others who have volunteered their valuable time to try to help you or get off of it and stop wasting our collective time.
                    You could, of course simply continue to operate your application in the convoluted way you currently have it set up.

                    John Lemisch
                    President, Data Management Solutions, Inc.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                      Originally posted by Tom Henkel View Post
                      Sam,

                      We have grown our Systems from ver1 through ver 5 and are now running quite nicely on ver 10.5. The upfront effort may be fairly large, but rethinking your applications after 15 years might be just what the Dr. ordered.

                      When we jumped from ver1 to ver 5, it was a HUGE change. Going from Card stacks to Forms, etc. was somewhat confusing at first, but it actually did make our multifaceted system cleaner, easier to navigate, and maintain. There is no reason that I can see to have 2 separate systems. You can accomplish this with one main "calling" database that allows you to go to either the wholesale or retail application and back again seamlessly. Our main Calling application loads any number of applications and they in turn can call other sub applications, all returning nicely back to the main menu. It took quite a bit of work, and some serious "sit down and think" time, but now, it works very well. Ver 1 was great, but the added capabilities of the newer versions justify a close look at revamping things.

                      Tom
                      Tom, I'm glad to hear from you. I was going to contact you by private message. However, you were misrepresented as running two instances of Alpha 5, as I was planning to do.

                      I don't want to run 2 instances of Alpha 5 but I do want to keep the Retail and Wholesale files in their own directories and with their own App menus. As you know from Alpha V1, this is quite normal. I would load the Retail Menu because that's my primary and it has a link to the Wholesale Menu. However, anything I click on the Wholesale Menu uses files in its own directory. I loved that about V1 and don't think it can be implemented this way in V11. Stan Mathews taught me the form.view call and I used it to bring over the Wholesale Menu into my "workspace". Just like in V1 I sit with both menus side by side. The gotcha though is whenever I click a function on the Wholesale Menu it runs the objects in the Retail workspace. The key to doing what I want is to have the other workspace's menu work like V1's did.

                      You said you can't see a reason why I have to run 2 separate "systems". This, Tom, is THE reason. Do you know away around it? If so I'm all ears. I just don't want much more development effort. I've obsessed with this migration for 2 solid months and need to have it finished.

                      Thanks Tom ... Sam

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                        Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                        I have a large database all the way from dos versions to 10.5. It handles retail auto sales and wholesale auto sales. The only difference in the input is the forms. There is a retail side that encompasses sales to retail customers. There is another form for wholesale to those that buy on that level. No seperate tables or folders involved.

                        A runtime can have the same adb opened twice(at the same time) with one being ws and the other retail.

                        To further confuse things(for me) was that retail can include the following - cash, buy here pay here, bank finance or leasing. These are all handled on the retail form by using switches. I can also seperate the dealerships by a number(capable of handling to 99 dealerships in one shared app) with each having it's own inventory and customers. This is all one app in one shared folder.

                        It is not logical to me to use seperate folders/apps/adbs/tables when the general merchadise is all by one company.
                        Dave, I'd have to study your system to really understand what you're explaining. It's great for you that you developed this in the framework of single databases to handle both your business segments. I can't do that easily because my son's Wholesale business was an add-on to the original application, which is why I took the easy path and placed the entire system in duplicate in a second directory. All files work because all the logic is the same, the only difference being the customers and their invoices. Alpha V1 did NOT make me pay a price for doing it this way. It has been TOTALLY COMFORTABLE working with concurrent application menus from two separate directories, and it NEVER gets confused because all the tables, sets, etc. have the SAME NAMES.

                        I've been struggling to find a way for V11 to accommodate my setup in a single workspace, and thus far can't. Dave, I just don't want to spend the time to re-tool everything that I now have working finally under V11 by redesigning to have everything work out of a single set of tables and sets. I've been around long enough to know that's not going to be a walk in the park.

                        I'm being judged here on the forums by people who feel I'm a total reactionary and I'm almost condemned for liking V1 and the way it did things. Believe me, I like V11 for all the things it offers me that V1 did not. The cosmetic touches that can be applied are amazing, the Operations functions are great especially the Crosstabs and the Xbasic is strong.

                        If V11 is so darned wonderful, Dave, it would provide an easy way for me to do what I'm trying to do. My way of doing this is not the wrong way, it's just different from what some others would choose to do. I haven't yet given up because I believe that it does have an answer ...somewhere.

                        Thanks again for writing ... Sam

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                          but your obvious inability to take advice from those who know how to fix your issue is beginning to piss me off.
                          I would suggest that you do what has been suggested by me, and the others who have volunteered their valuable time to try to help you or get off of it and stop wasting our collective time.
                          John, this is harsh, un-gentlemanlike, and not called for based on our conversation. The people I've met here John are different from you in the way they approach providing assistance, and I don't believe you've served yourself well by writing what you have in open forum.

                          I have received much help here in developing my application and I have put many of the excellent ideas and techniques I received to good use. These good people have NOT wasted their time. I'm sorry you feel I've wasted yours.

                          By the way, I do appreciate the time you spent trying to help.

                          ... Sam

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                            Sam,
                            You have used the term "directory" as in "but I do want to keep the Retail and Wholesale files in their own directories.."
                            Just so I am, and all others are, clear on this, in Sam's world, what is a directory?
                            Mike W
                            __________________________
                            "I rebel in at least small things to express to the world that I have not completely surrendered"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                              A directory is a folder. Directory was the original term used by microsoft in the DOS days. With the Windows operating system the term was changed to folder.
                              Last edited by aschone; 09-26-2012, 03:23 PM. Reason: horrible grammar
                              Andrew

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Concurrent access to multiple workspaces

                                Sorry, Mike. Guess I'm showing my age. Andrew is right on.

                                Am I that old that "directory" is only used in my world?

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