To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

[DaveM]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

then force the user to install your application into specific folders.

My customers don't have to make a folder or decide which folder. I use astrum to install where I want as do most large(not me) software companies do. Example: ever find windows in a different folder/directory than drive letter\windows??? They do need the name of the server, make sure the folder is shared, etc. There is an application out there that can be used to find the data on a network and give up the complete path. A friend of mine has it, but hasn't let me have it yet. Some friend, HUH?


Ronald,
When ME came out, you could not access any data in the program files folder. In fact, it was off limits. ms relented on this after so many complained about it. Many users never got the first run of ME. Each windows version has tightened up more and more as time has come along. You can look forward to the day when your app will not be useable if in Program Files. We moved our data that was totally built in MS VB out of Program files in the 1990's because of that trend.

[CALocklin]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

... I use astrum to install where I want as do most large(not me) software companies do.

Yes. I wasn't paying enough attention when I referred to "previous posters". We've had the discussion before about how you install - it's different than mine but it's a good method. In fact, I believe I was thinking about adopting some of your method into mine and just never got around to it.

They do need the name of the server, make sure the folder is shared, etc.

This was my main point - there needs to be someone with at least a minimal capability at the installation point. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

[DaveM]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ok, Found it here. http://www.softperfect.com/products/lspro/ It's FREE.

It will take a bit of work, but should do the trick.

I am sure it can be used via (ole?) to search for a file/folder in the intranet/lan. it can save a file in a couple formats with the exact path to that file/folder. Alpha can read that and drop it into a variable to load the data to a shadow copy.

I will investigate this further and give it all up if I get it set up before someone else does. I tested and saved in csv file

[Michael Humby]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ronald,

When Vista appeared any changed data files in Program Files were not updated, the changed files were shunted into c:\users\username\appdata\roaming\local (or something very similar) so if you ever backed up your data in program files the backup would only contain useless original install data and not the current changed data. I never did find out if this was Windows or Alpha that moved the files.

Try this test for Vista upwards OS, copy an active app folder from your Program Files containing some known recently changed Alpha data files then then paste it on the root c:\mytemp then open the app in the temp folder and see if your recent changes are showing.

Michael

[Ronald Anusiewicz]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Thank you everyone who replied.

I�ll be going with shadowed databases.

Regarding Program file folders; I installed version 10.5 on a win 7 machine. After the install, windows said it didn�t like my installation and asked to correct the problem (or something to that effect). I clicked OK and 10.5 was installed into the program files (x86) folder. I believe that the program files (x86) folder is for 32 bit software. I haven�t had any problems.

I use to install in my own folder on the root of a drive, but win 7 wants to put software into program files (x86). I recently tried to edit a shortcut to an Alpha app. Win 7 kept putting program files (x86) into the path. I don�t know why, but it did. So I said to myself, why fight it.

Michael, you did remind me regarding Vista. I did get burned with vista, but as I recall, all the folders that you look at are not the real ones, even if they are not in the program file folder. The files I was dealing with were in my own folder on the root of the C drive.

Ron

[DaveM]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ron,

You CAN put the runtime on the c:\ drive. I just did it on a win 7 and a win 8 machine. As far as shadowed tables, they will always be like 1k in size. They just redirect to the server files. They should not be in the program files(x86) though. It is fine if you install runtime wherever you want too, including program files(x86). My data files(real) that are on the c:\alda\upslog do update with the data and grow in size accordingly. That has been tested after seeing stuff on this post. I tested on win7 and win8.

FYI, I just downloaded visual studio 2012 on my win8 machine and it installed to program files(x86). I would have thought it would be a 64 bit app by now. LOL

[martinwcole]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ron, you definitely can install in the root drive - I do on all of mine
the trick is, when selecting the path for V11, is to doubleclick on drive c, and pick the path

[CALocklin]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

FWIW, I ran into another reason to use shadowing this morning.

A customer called and was having a problem with one computer. My initial check showed that there were actually problems on the server and one workstation. Don't worry about the specific problems because that has nothing to do with the "shadow vs. no shadow" issue. I have no idea how they happened anyway. And, I have no idea what caused these problems other than the fact that some type of "system admin/cleanup stuff" was done yesterday. And why it affected only 2 of the 4 computers is also a mystery.

But the advantage to using shadowed workstations was that the program was still working on 2 of the 4 computers (2 of the 3 workstations) and the business was still functional while I fixed the other two. ("Fixing" just consisted of finding the errant application files and replacing them - some .dd* files, one set, and the .al* files.)

[DaveM]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

That testimony from Cal would be enough for me to change to shadow. OOps, I forgot, I only do shadowed. LOL

[Ted Giles]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ronald, Ted Giles has been bird doggin' this more than anyone. I'll defer to his comments. My own take on this is that MS has been discouraging the use of executables that write data to the Program Files or Program Files (X86) directories for security reasons. If you install Alpha there and Alpha then has to write something there also you can have problems. How about it, Ted? Did I get close?

Yes you did Tom.
It seems that the initial problems when Win7 came out have been revisited by M/soft and with the latest patches they might have allowed some changes to be made easily in the prog folders.
It was not always the case, so that's why I place Alpha outside the prog folders.
While I'm at it, I don't trust M/soft to get it right all the time as a recent install of an "essential element" totally mullered my Windows Live Mail and it took about 4 hours to find the problem and fix it.
Anyway Ron, whatever works for you is best, but if you start having issues, you now have some solutions.

[DaveM]

Re: To Shadow or Not to Shadow, That's the question.

Ted, Ron, Tom, etc.

Per win8.
When you go to win8(as it is now), you may want to rethink as I am right now and put the runtime into program files(x86) with the data in a root drive folder. The reason is to conform to windows8 apps. This is only if you want the full certification. You don't even want to think of placing data in program files.