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How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

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  • How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

    Actually, once you know the programs limitations & pitfalls, you learn to "intuitively navigate around them." But even so: These "roadblocks" can be a "moving target." (which can change/vary from version to version......)

    The biggest issue at present (IMHO) which debilitates a5 is the built in browse object and related scroll issues..... You cannot do some things you'd expect should/would be feasible here. Also, I find that the a5 set relationship structure makes it difficult to do one (related) thing in particular:
    If you have a "Parent -> Child -> Grandchild" relationship, it can be very difficult to create a form that shows all the grandchildren in a browse at the same time. (with only the grandparent selected in the form's header) ~ Typically, you must also include the child browse on the form (and make a selection in the child browse) which results in displaying only a "subset" of the grandchildren (on the form) at any given time. ~ There are a few "tricks" getting around this limitation, but thus far I haven't found a "perfect solution." .....Without the use of extensive Xdialog, which 1.) I don't know, and 2.) have absolutely 0 interest in learning: I don't think there is a "perfect solution."
    Last edited by SNusa; 03-24-2013, 08:03 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  • #2
    How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

    Re: If you have a "Parent -> Child -> Grandchild" relationship...

    Just out of curiosity, why would you want to show only the Grandchild records without showing the Child record? I can't think of a situation that would call for this but obviously you've run into one.
    Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:01 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

      Originally posted by CALocklin View Post
      Re: If you have a "Parent -> Child -> Grandchild" relationship...

      Just out of curiosity, why would you want to show only the Grandchild records without showing the Child record? I can't think of a situation that would call for this but obviously you've run into one.
      Hi Cal;

      It's a points/rewards system. (Customers have "key-fobs" which accumulate points from a POS barcode scanner.) Upon registering the fobs, multiple key-fobs can be tied into one master account. (Showing all the "grandchildren" together with the totals under the parent account is thus necessary here.) ~ I want/need to keep all the children fobs separate too for historical data.....

      ~The primary reason for this is the details are captured and then exported from a POS system. At the time the data is collected, the key-fobs are not tied into a parent account. Nor is there any any way to do so due to POS setup..... (All POS is capable of doing is capturing the bar code.) I wanted a way (using an interim table) to connect all this together without having to update the details/grand-child tables each time additional data is appended from POS.

      ~ I've found a solution/workaround. (But it would have been a heck of a lot easier had the scroll region worked properly when "parent records only" setting is unchecked)...... This is going to turn into a really neat finished product/tool!
      Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:00 PM.
      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

      Comment


      • #4
        How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

        I wouldn't expect that to work in any way like that Robert. Not without designing a set for it.
        How would it be predicatable what you intend by leaving off the linking table.
        Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

          Originally posted by Ray in Capetown View Post
          I wouldn't expect that to work in any way like that Robert. Not without designing a set for it.
          How would it be predicatable what you intend by leaving off the linking table.
          That's the issue: including all 3 tables while both displaying & getting the grandchild totals regardless of which child (middle table) record is selected . I am using a 3-table set for the form. (Although you don't actually need one. I could have just used a form based on a single grandparent (top) table. (more "restricting" though) ~ Even so, in this instance, the linking table is there "in the middle." ~ it serves as "the link" between the parent and the grandchild..... And yes, it can be done. A little magic with calculated fields, reversing parent/child relationships ("one to first" via mapped tables)* etc...
          *Note to self: Maybe I should try a set instead of mapped tables here..... I have to look into the ramifications here.....

          ~ I could have done more if I had the knowledge to display a mapped table using Xdialog, But I don't know Xdialog, so I resorted to using a "Record List List Box" instead for the grand-children.... (Tim Keibert "whipped up" an awesome Xdialog based solution ~ see link below.) However, being afraid to implement something I didn't inherently understand completely I am not using it (yet anyways.)

          http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/alphaforum/showthread.php?100411-Embedded-browse-problem&p=632932&viewfull=1#post632932


          Also, a little magic with the generation/usage of indexes based on multiple fields (along with dbsum() allows me to generate additional subtotaling. (for instance, sub-totals by year)

          This is the culmination of a lot of learning/legwork (and dealing with all the shortcomings/bugs in a5 which I've been "bitchin" about!) ~ And ALSO from a few "great tips" from others here on the forum (For which I am grateful!)

          PS: Having the "ideal" data layout structure sure helps too!
          Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:00 PM.
          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

          Comment


          • #6
            How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

            This thread has gone into new territory that isn't related to backup...

            Maybe the last few posts should go into their own thread.

            Suggest a title and what posts should move and I'll move them.
            Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:00 PM.
            Al Buchholz
            Bookwood Systems, LTD
            Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

            Occam's Razor - KISS
            Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
            Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
            When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
            "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
            Albert Einstein

            http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

            Comment


            • #7
              How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

              Al - I suggest "How to show all grandchild records attached to multiple child records related to parent"
              Would that describe it Robert?
              From post 44
              Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 06:59 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

                Originally posted by Ray in Capetown View Post
                Al - I suggest "How to show all grandchild records attached to multiple child records related to parent"
                Would that describe it Robert?
                From post 44
                Ok with me... We'll see what Robert has to say......
                Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 06:59 PM.
                Al Buchholz
                Bookwood Systems, LTD
                Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                Occam's Razor - KISS
                Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                Albert Einstein

                http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                Comment


                • #9
                  How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

                  Originally posted by Al Buchholz View Post
                  Ok with me... We'll see what Robert has to say......
                  Sounds good guys....
                  I'd really love to understand exactly how Tim's Xdialog example was accomplished/created!
                  http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/alphaforum/showthread.php?100411-Embedded-browse-problem&p=632932&viewfull=1#post632932
                  Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 06:59 PM.
                  Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                  It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                  RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

                    Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                    Sounds good guys....
                    I'd really love to understand exactly how this Xdialog example was accomplished/created!
                    http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/alphaforum/showthread.php?100411-Embedded-browse-problem&p=632932&viewfull=1#post632932
                    Robert

                    Start a new thread (then it's still your thread..) and I'll move the posts.
                    Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:06 PM.
                    Al Buchholz
                    Bookwood Systems, LTD
                    Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                    Occam's Razor - KISS
                    Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                    Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                    When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                    "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                    Albert Einstein

                    http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

                      When you have 3 tables linked together (parent -> child -> grandchild) it is difficult to display all grandchildren (along with the parent record) on the same form using a form based on a standard "one to many" set. ~ As I am finding out, there are ways to accomplish this.

                      Notes: These problems exist using conventional methods because of browse related scroll issues which inhibits the ability to view all the records when "parent record only" browse setting is deselected. ~ Also, the actual problem (when using the middle/hild table on a form is that in order to see the grandchildren records, you have to make a selection in the child. (Doing this returns only a subset of the grandchildren records associated with the parent.)
                      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to parent

                        Here's the link: http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...063#post640063

                        Note: Additional relative information here: http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...l=1#post632932
                        Last edited by Al Buchholz; 03-24-2013, 07:05 PM.
                        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to pa

                          Robert,

                          Have you considered the use of an inverted set arrangement? That's what I'd do. The grandchild become parent. It's linked one to one to the child. The child is linked one to one to the original parent which is now in grandchild position. Piece of cake. Now you essentially have a large flat table. Put what fields you want in your browse or on your form. Query the form based on a single parent and see all the grandchildren.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to pa

                            You lost me at "FOB"..but I think I get the gist of what you are trying to do in generic terms and the answer is so simple and you don't have to xdlg anything:
                            Link the parent to the child with a dummy expression which will evaluate to true at all times, which in turn will show all children and therefore all grandchildren..
                            This should answer your question but won't answer mine: something wrong with the grand design..the concept itself..
                            The logic still escapes me...but as I said.. you lost me at FOB and I just had a couple drinks and a dinner at the Royal Sonista. a la French Quarter...so I am not in the mood of even trying to know who is FOB..sounds like a foreign object you don't want to see in your meal..

                            Sorry, forgot one little item..you will most likely ask what is a "dummy expression".
                            Something like: 1=1

                            And the other little point..if you don't want to see the children..and most parents don't...place a children browse on the form and hide it..

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How to show all grandchild records linked to multiple child records related to pa

                              Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
                              Robert,

                              Have you considered the use of an inverted set arrangement? That's what I'd do. The grandchild become parent. It's linked one to one to the child. The child is linked one to one to the original parent which is now in grandchild position. Piece of cake. Now you essentially have a large flat table. Put what fields you want in your browse or on your form. Query the form based on a single parent and see all the grandchildren.
                              ~Yes, that is essentially what I have done. Works nicely. Right now, i'm trying to establish the benefits/costs of using a mapped table as opposed to a regular table under different table/set scenarios...

                              Originally posted by G Gabriel View Post
                              You lost me at "FOB"..but I think I get the gist of what you are trying to do in generic terms and the answer is so simple and you don't have to xdlg anything:
                              Link the parent to the child with a dummy expression which will evaluate to true at all times, which in turn will show all children and therefore all grandchildren..
                              This should answer your question but won't answer mine: something wrong with the grand design..the concept itself..
                              The logic still escapes me...but as I said.. you lost me at FOB and I just had a couple drinks and a dinner at the Royal Sonista. a la French Quarter...so I am not in the mood of even trying to know who is FOB..sounds like a foreign object you don't want to see in your meal..

                              Sorry, forgot one little item..you will most likely ask what is a "dummy expression".
                              Something like: 1=1

                              And the other little point..if you don't want to see the children..and most parents don't...place a children browse on the form and hide it..
                              Thank you. This would work, but what I need to do is keep the tables linked, without needing to update a "dummy field" in the grandchild table. It's the interim table that is doing all the linking. (They way I am accomplishing this, I can always regenerate the data from the POS system without worrying about "reconnecting" it to the customer account.)

                              Also, Tim Kiebert's solution is "intriguing", but I'm having problems duplicating his example. ~ I keep running into errors when I try to insert the Xdialog (that is created from the browse while editing it via advanced -> create Xdialog in the a5 menu.) ~ http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...l=1#post632932

                              I have to catch some z's......
                              Last edited by SNusa; 03-25-2013, 09:57 AM.
                              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                              Comment

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