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Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

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  • Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

    Hi All,

    I have made a customized Runtime Registration Dialog.

    Without entering the registration number it is possible to test how the dialog looks by firing up V9 RT. However, you cannot create an installer if the RT has not been registered on the machine.

    As the dialog only works if the registration has not been done, how then do you test a new Runtime Registration Dialog for a different application?

    For the Wish List, a Genie to create and test the Runtime Registration Dialog, or to include it in the Install Creator.
    Regards
    Keith Hubert
    Alpha Guild Member
    London.
    KHDB Management Systems
    Skype = keith.hubert


    For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

  • #2
    Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

    Keith,

    Maybe the others here understood what you just said, but I didn't.

    Can you say that rephrazed a little?

    I think you said you cannot make a runtime without runtime being on the machine? I never tried it. You should be able to.

    I do send files or cd's that are installed on computers that never had any alpha software of any kind installed on them. I don't use the install maker yet but intend to start. I just wish there were more choices, like not overwriting the dbf, fpt files.

    Edit:: I reread your post a bit more and see what you mean. disregard the above.
    Dave Mason
    [email protected]
    Skype is dave.mason46

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

      If this was brought to Alpha's attention, I wonder if they could give us a test runtime of some kind. Maybe something with modified startup where you could open no more than 3 forms and would shut down after 5 minutes?
      Dave Mason
      [email protected]
      Skype is dave.mason46

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

        Keith,
        After creating the runtime application can't you find a different pc in which to test it out on?? Testing on various computers I would think would be commonplace for most applications unless you knew exactly the computer an application was going to be placed on.

        It would be nice, however, as Dave mentions to be able to do this particular type of test on the development PC.
        Mike
        __________________________________________
        It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
        It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
        Henry David Thoreau
        __________________________________________



        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

          Mike, George,

          I test my stuff on a bunch of computers(around 9 or so) before shipping.

          I think George is worried about using up a seat for testing the install of his newly generated app and more specifically he has to install a RT on his machine to be able to make the install. Am I correct in this?
          Dave Mason
          [email protected]
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

            Very true Dave--if Keith is using a runtime engine with seats then Alpha does have to come up with something to accommodate this scenario--am still thinking just runtime as before...which still is not a problem in version 9 testing on various PCs....usually--guess only the OEM bundles are the only runtimes now that are the same as previous runtimes.
            Last edited by MikeC; 04-16-2008, 11:42 PM. Reason: more info.
            Mike
            __________________________________________
            It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
            It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
            Henry David Thoreau
            __________________________________________



            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

              Originally posted by DaveM View Post
              If this was brought to Alpha's attention, I wonder if they could give us a test runtime of some kind. Maybe something with modified startup where you could open no more than 3 forms and would shut down after 5 minutes?
              Maybe a bit more than 5 minutes but yes I agree, this sort of thing - with a limit to stop it from being abused - should shop with A5 full stop, so you don't have to spend any extra money to BUILD and TEST your apps.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                Hi all,

                To test the runtime registration procedure on your original machine simply used regedit.exe to delete the registry key that the installation creates.
                Its details are contained in the pdf that came with v9rt.
                Your machine will then think it is a new installation and will go through your registration procedure.

                Bob Whitaker
                Bob Whitaker

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                  As an additional thought - if you use Astrum to build your installations you can get it to create the necessary registry keys with your licence number included so the user is not asked to enter a licence number on first running the V9 runtime.
                  Bob Whitaker
                  Bob Whitaker

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                    Hi Bob,

                    Thanks for your reply.

                    You are correct, once the RT has been registered on a machine the only way to test a new Dialog Registration for another application is to delete the entry in the Registry with Regedit. Whilst this can be done, I do not feel happy about recommending this as a standard procedure just to test a dialog.

                    I would hope Alpha could come up with a better way of getting to see how the dialog looked before it was implemented, the same as you can preview dialogs in Action Scripting.
                    Regards
                    Keith Hubert
                    Alpha Guild Member
                    London.
                    KHDB Management Systems
                    Skype = keith.hubert


                    For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                      OK,

                      I have found a way to test and then edit the Registration Dialog without implementing it.

                      Create the Dialog in a Xbasic script in a new empty application and save it.

                      Make the script save the result in the RT folder. If you follow the script in the RT manual you will understand that.

                      As Bob has said if you have already entered the RT Licence number delete it from the registry. Make sure you have a note of the number.

                      Put a short cut on your desktop. Now when you run the RT it will fire up the Licence Registration Dialog. Dont enter the number, if you dont like what you have created now you can edit the script save and re-run it until you are happy.

                      All you need to do then is copy it into the folder of your application and when you create your Installer, make sure the dialog gets into the same folder as the Runtime.

                      It would be better if there was a Preview dialog but this is the best that I have come up with for the moment.

                      Is there any security reason why I should not display the Licence Number in the Registration Dialog? Or is there a way for the Installer to write to the registry automatically, in which case the Registration dialog is not needed.

                      One small detail and it could be one of those over the pond things, Licence is the number to be entered not License, this where you give License to sombody to hold a Licence.
                      Last edited by Keith Hubert; 05-17-2008, 07:40 AM.
                      Regards
                      Keith Hubert
                      Alpha Guild Member
                      London.
                      KHDB Management Systems
                      Skype = keith.hubert


                      For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                        Hi Keith,
                        One small detail and it could be one of those over the pond things, Licence is the number to be entered not License, this where you give License to sombody to hold a Licence.
                        Yep, it sure is just a "Brit." nuance according to a Webster I use...but nice to know (and this sort of forum is one of the few places that information like this would even be appreciated!! :) ).
                        Mike
                        __________________________________________
                        It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                        It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                        Henry David Thoreau
                        __________________________________________



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                          Are you talking about the Runtime or the Run Engine. I had a long discussion with Richard about the differences between the RT & run engine. He basically told me that the V9 Runtime works the same as the V8 Runtime. The License Agreement has been updated to reflect Alpha's policy that each distribution of the Runtime requires a purchase. With Version 8 I was told by sales that you purchase the runtime once, and install as much as you need.

                          Now with the Run Engine I am also a little worried when I finally upgrade to the Run Engine (which I need for SQL access).

                          I was just reading a White Paper titled "Alpha Five Platinum Run Engine". It Reads on page 8 at the bottom:

                          6. Creating Demo Versions of your Application
                          You may want to create demo versions of your application that your customers can use in some limited fashion until they
                          have purchased the full application. For example, you want to supply the whole application to them, but restrict them to
                          entering a certain number of records. To do this, you would attach a script to each table’s CanSaveRecord event, which
                          is defined in Field Rules.

                          If each user MUST enter a registration # the first time the Run Engine runs, how can you create a demo app?

                          I assumed that the Run Engine had a 30 day Trial Period like the main program does.

                          If you can't demo your software for a potential client, how do you turn potential clients into clients?
                          ---------------------------------------------------
                          Barry Kucher
                          http://www.411tech.org

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                            Hi Barry,

                            Just to be clear, I'm talking about the Run Engine.

                            I know this seems a little confusing but I have read and re-read the difference between the two Run Times, just to make sure of what I really needed to distribute my application.

                            The Run Engine requires the software to be registered on the machine where your application and the RT is installed. This has nothing to do with how you want to control the trial period.
                            6. Creating Demo Versions of your Application
                            You may want to create demo versions of your application that your customers can use in some limited fashion until they have purchased the full application. For example, you want to supply the whole application to them, but restrict them to entering a certain number of records. To do this, you would attach a script to each table’s CanSaveRecord event, whichn is defined in Field Rules
                            I am at a total loss as to why the Alpha guys thought this was necessary. I have bought the single user licence on the understanding that I can distribute my application to as many customers as I can that are going to use the application on a single machine. This is much the same as other products that allow you to create an EXE file for distribution.

                            What benefit the local registration has to Alpha, I am at a loss to understand. It neither helps me or Alpha and potentially, will confuse the end user when they have to enter a Licence Number and then when they have paid me for the application, an unlock key.

                            Good luck with your application.

                            I would still like to know if showing the Licence Number on the Run Engine dialog is a breach of security.
                            Regards
                            Keith Hubert
                            Alpha Guild Member
                            London.
                            KHDB Management Systems
                            Skype = keith.hubert


                            For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Catch 22 Customising RT Dialog

                              Kieth,

                              Since I don't own V9 yet, all I can do is assume. It makes no sense to me that the Run Engine license needs to be installed on my development machine except for testing. Again I assume that won't use a license.

                              The difference between the Runtime and the Run Engine (besides active & passive link tables) is that once a client purchases it's own Runtime license you can install the Runtime on 100 machines, but only the # of concurrent users they purchased is allowed to access the data at one time.

                              With the Run Engine, every machine that will use the application has to have it's own license.

                              This is a troublespot for me because one application I wrote for a client is installed on 15 machines and the users are used to only 5 users accessing it at one time. With the Run Engine, the client will be required to purchase 15 Run Engine licenses once I upgrade it to V9. The application would still only be used by 5 people max due to the clients business schedule.

                              Currently I am awaiting a new quote from the sales team at alpha for a Run Engine site license. This license should allow me to install on 15 machines and still only have 5 users using the app at one time.
                              ---------------------------------------------------
                              Barry Kucher
                              http://www.411tech.org

                              Comment

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