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Is there any v10 desktop demo's

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    #31
    Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

    Originally posted by NoeticCC View Post
    Sorry but that's just not true. V9 was HEAVILY geared towards desktop improvements - after all you could use updateable SQL data sources for the web for some time but Active Link tables were introduced in v9 mainly for desktop usage (and indeed were until relatively recently only possible to use there and not in web grids!), as were most of the new additions in features (at least those that don't required heavy programming in Xbasic and Javascript).
    Yes, Fred was incorrect in making such a blanket statement. However, if he had said that for those who have no need for using SQL data sources, V9 did not have anything stupendous to offer desktop only users, I think he would have been correct. There were lots of little desktop things added in v9 but except for SQL stuff nothing major that I can think of right now. Perhaps there will be something major for such users in v10--I hope so but I doubt it.

    In any case, the really big problem I see is that for those who, for whatever reason, are going to have to stick with v9, they are probably going to be stuck with a version that still has way too many bugs in it, many of which have in fact been fixed but the fixes will only come in v10, not another patch for v9. It is almost as if this is a sales strategy for Alpha, i.e., make sure the current version has a bunch of unfixed bugs so that users who care about the bugs will almost have to upgrade to the next version. I suppose some would argue that this makes good marketing sense, but I would have to disagree. I am not saying a release has to be totally bug free before the company releases the next major version (that would be impossible). I am just saying that before releasing the next version, if you have fixed x number of bugs in the prior version, release a patch with those fixes for the prior version and sell your next version simply on the basis of all the great new features it contains. If the new version has bugs (it will) fix them only for the new version even if they apply to a prior release too. Would the latter policy also be arbitrary? Yes, but at least it does not amount to a sucker punch to all the v9 users who want or need to stick with v9.

    Of course I am writing this from the perspective of someone who is going to have to stick with v9 (for reasons I won't go into). In fact, I am seriously considering removing v9 specific elements in my applications and going back to v8, which I believe was, in some ways, a more trouble free version.

    Ray Lyons

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

      My point of view is not that of a full-time developer. Some developers may have certain preferences depending on what they are trying to accomplish. It will be hard for Alpha Software to please everyone.

      I am a business owner and manager and my main concern is being able to use a database tool, on my own, without reliance on a database consultant firm. Alpha Five (and Alpha Four before it) has always been, for me, the easiest tool for this purpose. I have been able to create a good database solution without getting tied down to, and dependent on, an outsourced database solution provided by an outside contractor. I have considered many times the option of hiring a specialist or purchasing a ready-made package. I keep backing off because not one of these packages has been as open and easy to manipulate as Alpha Five. With Alpha Five I can create what I want when I need it.

      I appreciate the new features being added to Alpha Five so that I can do things that previously I would have had to hire a consultant to program for me. At first I didn't understand what this "web" side was all about. But after having seen it in action I now realize that I have a powerful tool to help me put together any type of application, either "desktop" or "web", as I see fit. I can do this myself, no programmer needed. (We'll not get into whether this makes good business sense or not, that's another discussion entirely!)

      I see this "focus" on the "web" side in the same light as I saw the switch from Alpha Four (DOS based) to Alpha Five (Windows Based). I was sad to let go of all I had done in the DOS application. It took a while to get used to the way Alpha Five did things and I really struggled with the learning curve to the new "Windows" paradigm. But now I am happy I didn't stay with Alpha Four.

      I am now beginning to understand the Alpha Five application of the IP protocol and the client-server model and how this setup can add more to my database applications and help me integrate disparate programs. I was beginning to think I would have to abandon Alpha Five because our business needs were outgrowing my programming skills. But now I can learn enough about data integration to keep my Alpha Five applications and integrate them with other business applications (such as MS Retail Manager or other POS systems using alternative database back ends).

      This focus on the web, if it does in fact exist, is good for me and other like me. And I think it will be good for developers who want to learn yet another paradigm (just as they did when they went from A4 to A5, or from Access to A5, etc.) that will allow them to provide solutions to an even broader market than they could before. I don't think Alpha is ignoring the desktop. I think they are enhancing it and giving us more tools to work with. Being able to quickly create a web server/browser client solution in the same way we have been able to do with the traditional "desktop" tools is a big deal. This will open the door for me to do what I have always done with database applications - that is, do it myself. No disrespect to the developer crowd. We all have our needs. But I can tell you, if I were a developer I would be very excited about these new "web-side" tools and the new abilities they would add to my portfolio.

      Sean

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

        I would suggest anyone who has not ventured into the "web" side of Alpha to take a look at the grid component videos before deciding whther they are or not moving to V10. Having the ability to use these components on the "Desktop" side is HUGE.
        Bill Griffin
        Parkell, Inc

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

          Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
          Yes, Fred was incorrect in making such a blanket statement. However, if he had said that for those who have no need for using SQL data sources, V9 did not have anything stupendous to offer desktop only users, I think he would have been correct. There were lots of little desktop things added in v9 but except for SQL stuff nothing major that I can think of right now. Perhaps there will be something major for such users in v10--I hope so but I doubt it.
          I am not sure if stupendous would describe it but the SuperControls and being able to use more sophisticated Xdialog controls etc. on the desktop were rather useful in v9, plus for v10, being able to use WAS grids in the desktop WITHOUT having WAS or having it running, is going to have a huuuuuge impact on cross-compatibility etc.

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

            http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ad.php?t=80843

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

              Originally posted by JPFromtally View Post
              Yaaawwnnn... I'm on the forums every day and I don't remember anybody clamoring for a conditional breakpoints in the debugger.
              I'm with MikeC. I've never clamored for it but I've sure had situations where it would have been nice. Instead, I had to add temporary IF statements to my script.

              Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
              In any case, the really big problem I see is that for those who, for whatever reason, are going to have to stick with v9, they are probably going to be stuck with a version that still has way too many bugs in it, many of which have in fact been fixed but the fixes will only come in v10, not another patch for v9. It is almost as if this is a sales strategy for Alpha, i.e., make sure the current version has a bunch of unfixed bugs so that users who care about the bugs will almost have to upgrade to the next version. I suppose some would argue that this makes good marketing sense, but I would have to disagree. I am not saying a release has to be totally bug free before the company releases the next major version (that would be impossible). I am just saying that before releasing the next version, if you have fixed x number of bugs in the prior version, release a patch with those fixes for the prior version and sell your next version simply on the basis of all the great new features it contains. If the new version has bugs (it will) fix them only for the new version even if they apply to a prior release too. Would the latter policy also be arbitrary? Yes, but at least it does not amount to a sucker punch to all the v9 users who want or need to stick with v9.

              Of course I am writing this from the perspective of someone who is going to have to stick with v9 (for reasons I won't go into). In fact, I am seriously considering removing v9 specific elements in my applications and going back to v8, which I believe was, in some ways, a more trouble free version.

              Ray Lyons
              +1 (both paragraphs)

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                I am just curious how the sentiment amongst the desktop audience is now towards V10, after the desktop feature videos have been released.
                Did not see much reactions yet.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                  Obs: Conditional Debugger
                  I wonder if it will be one of those things where after using it for a few days, you wonder later how you would survive without it !

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                    Probably because we did not know that they had been released.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                      I was curious about that myself. Compared to the release of V9 the board has been almost silent about V10. Most of the desktop features have yet to be released to the beta testers. I have been spending a lot of time (for the first time) working with the web enhancments and I have to say I am quite impressed at what can be done with little to no coding. Bringing the grid component to the desktop is really a huge melding of the web and desktop. V10 is the version that I am looking forward to being released more than any other version (I think I started at V6) this one seems to be the Biggest change in the way I will look at projects. As far as not knowing about the videos, check your email(junk mail folder?) . I have been getting regular emails regarding the videos for quite some time.

                      There are a lot of views to this thread and others regarding V10, but not the usual opinions, priases, complaints, general chatter, etc....Many see to be sitting on the sidelines waiting...


                      Bill
                      Last edited by Bill Griffin; 08-07-2009, 08:05 PM.
                      Bill Griffin
                      Parkell, Inc

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                        I looked at the thread that Richard Rabin sent out that included 2 links Video Part1 and Part 2. Neither one works. WHen I click on them they just come up blank.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                          Fred,
                          I have watched every video without problems (well, aside from the two videos that are in reverse order!). So without the actual link to test, I would guess either the link has been changed (and incorrect), the link since I viewed it has broken, Alpha website problems, or something on your system caused it....no way to narrow it down without more info is what I am saying. :)
                          Mike
                          __________________________________________
                          It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                          It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                          Henry David Thoreau
                          __________________________________________



                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                            Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
                            ... the really big problem I see is that for those who, for whatever reason, are going to have to stick with v9, they are probably going to be stuck with a version that still has way too many bugs in it, many of which have in fact been fixed but the fixes will only come in v10, not another patch for v9. ... I am seriously considering removing v9 specific elements in my applications and going back to v8, which I believe was, in some ways, a more trouble free version.
                            I know little about A5 though I've played with it since v5 and watched it grow. But I can read, and there seems to be a general theme in the message board of v8 being the stable version of choice and v9 being the version to use only if you must have one of the new v9 features in your application. And it's not just a case of a few bugs; the problems seem to be more deep rooted and fundamental with 'unhandled exceptions' and unexplained behaviors that occur seemingly 'randomly' and arbitrarily (often over networks). Reading this message board has encouraged me to avoid using v9.

                            Originally posted by Bill Griffin View Post
                            There are a lot of views ... regarding V10, but not the usual opinions, ... general chatter, ...Bill
                            So here is some general chatter...

                            I am now beginning to be convinced that A5 versions are like Star Trek films. The odd numbers were okay but generally unloved. It's the even numbers that you watch over and over again!!! Who could fail to enjoy ST2 "You lied!!"... (Spock) "I exaggerated." or ST4 (Scotty) "Admiral, there be whales!!"

                            A5v8 was special, v9 was a disappointment, but I have high hopes for v10.
                            Kind Regards
                            Alan

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                              I just clicked on the email from Alpha that I received today and the same thing. It opens to a blank screen. I've tried it several times awith the same result. I have no problems viewing other sites and content anywhere on the net. Has to be something with Alpha.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Is there any v10 desktop demo's

                                Hmmm... I just tried the links in the email and they worked fin. It does take a short time to load but then is fine-
                                Bill Griffin
                                Parkell, Inc

                                Comment

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