A general newbie question

[Tom Mills]

I'd like to write a fairly complex xbase app, and am looking for the best tool. I'm a non-programmer. My database work has been done in Access using macros. I've just ordered a copy of Alpha 5 which should be delivered today. I'm giving it a shot because it's supposedly so easy.

There sure seems to be a lot of coding discussion here for an app that sells itself as easy.

[French]

RE: A general newbie question


That's because this is where those who have decided to wander into the programming swamp hang out.

Saying that Alpha is easy must be taken in the context of other database products. There is a learning curve, even if you aren't programming. Some features aren't easy to find when you are first learning the program.

What IS true is that you can do more with less effort than with any other product I know of. Some are easier to use but run out of features. Some have more features but you have to program to access most of the power. There are also features that other programs have that I really wish were present in Alpha. Alpha is still the product I use.

You can do a lot in Alpha with the features that are simply built in to the program -- no macros, programming, etc. You can do a fair amount of basic automation with nothing more than Alpha's button genie. You can do a lot more with the action scripting. You can record most actions with the script recorder. None of this requires programming knowledge on your part.

Some of it depends upon for whom you're developing you application. Some of the folks you see here are developing applications they are selling to others and the training level of those using the software is low or unknown. The app has to be fairly bullet proof. They may rely upon programming to knock off the rough edges and lock things down better. If you're doing an app for yourself or for co-workers where you control the training, you can get by with a few more rough edges.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: A general newbie question

Tom,

To me Alpha Five's distinguishing characteristic is flexibility coupled with a robust feature set.

Alpha Five includes a 'built in' database management system which can be easily used to build stand alone databases on your pc. Working within the Alpha Five 'Control Panel' you can design your forms, build your reports, mail merge letters, and labels. All with little or no programming.

If you plan to build something for others to use, or plan to install your database on a network other considerations come into play. It probably will be necessary for you to learn key portions of the xbasic scripting language so you can build a seamless interface for your 'users'.

Many of the messages in this forum involve folks who are building databases for others to use. You see very few questions dealing with the 'Control Panel' interface for individual databases because, I suspect, it's so easy to use.

-- tom

[Tom Mills]

RE: A general newbie question

I would plan to sell the product to others. Hopefully it arrives via Fedex today and I have my weekend plans set!! I don't mind a little coding. Just don't want to code everything.

[French]

RE: A general newbie question

not even close.

[Tom Mills]

RE: A general newbie question

Hey, got my A4, opened it up and the control panel is almost like Access. It was like old home week. I feel better already!!

[Tom Mills]

Where are the files

Okay, I'm playing with my program and reading through the manual (in Word) the hard copy is on back order. And so far I am very pleased.

Here's a question that's been haunting me and I haven't stumbled across the answer yet. Where does A5 store the location of the .dbf files? The files themselves are separate from the .adb, yet somehow the adb knows where the files are, and when they've been moved. But I've looked at can't find it.

Certainly that info must be available.

Also, can you reference a file by a UNC rather than a drive letter?

[Stan Mathews]

RE: Where are the files

Tom,

Your database "name.adb", "name.alb", etc are the definition of your database and contain the file location info.

More specifically if you use the

A5.table.enum() method

you can obtain a list of the "tables" in the current "database".

Search this message board on "enum()" for a fuller discussion.

Stan

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Where are the files

Tom:

One key to databasing in A5 is to keep all the files related to a given application in the same folder or subfolder thereof.

You CAN spread things around among different folders and, on the local development machine, A5 will keep unerring track of the file locations. However, if you subsequently move the adb file folder and its contents to a different drive or computer and fail to move all associated folders AND maintain exactly the same path structure, the app will be deeply confused and, in all probability will not function correctly.

So for now put everything in the same folder.

Finian

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Where are the files

BTW, the file locations and general database settings are stored in the ADB file; scripts, toolbars and menus are stored in the database data dictionary i.e. the alb alm and alx files.

Finian

[Tom Mills]

RE: Where are the files

Trust me, I'm a big believer in keeping the data files together and seperate from the program files and dll's etc.

Still curious about the UNC question and.....

If you are setting up an app to sell to various customers, and the data will be on a shared network drive. That drive will be mapped differently at each site. Assuming you are giving them a runtime version, is that a problem?

(I haven't looked up the enuc() function yet.)

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Where are the files

The app basically doesn't care if it's opened with the full program or the runtime. The only difference between them is that in the runtime various editing features are disabled.

As far as drive mapping on a network is concerned, it's probably a good idea to make sure that all workstations "see" the shared network data folder as the same drive i.e. that every workstation maps the datafolder as the P: or Q: drive.

Optimal network performance requires "shadowing" the database to the workstation.

Finian

[CALocklin]

RE: Where are the files

Tom,

I don't believe A5 can use UNC.

I have an app designed for networks that I hope to sell to companies using project management. To install it, there are two installation routines - one to install the network files and one to install the files to the user's local system. (Both are on CD but the recommended method is to copy the user's install program to the network and run it from there.) The trick I came up with for allowing different drive letters is that the user's installation routine creates a number of icons on the Start/Programs menu that are used for the initial setup for the network optimization (shadow files). Once the initial setup of network optimization is completed, the installation icons can be deleted (which is very easy on Win98 but a bit tougher on Win95).

Some things to do which may help understand the above:
1. Read about command line options for starting applications.
2. Read about network optimization - it makes a network application run almost like it was running from the local system. (See also the 'Code Archive(?)' on this bulletin board for a discussion about automating the network optimization - this definitely requires coding!)
3. Come to the convention on Dec. 1 - I'm sure you'll learn a LOT there!

Also, be aware that A5 uses separate files for data vs. reports, forms, letters, etc. This may seem odd or even backward to an Access user but it allows A5 users to update an application off-site. When done, only the files containing the changes need to be copied to the user's system - no data will be affected and the interruption for the user is only a few minutes. I have a non-A5 full time job that starts at 8:00 and I often schedule updates for customers at 7:30 so I can be done in time to get to my regular job.

Exception: If the table structure itself is changed then the user's table will have to be modified before copying the new files. HOWEVER, (a) most of my updates are for reports, etc. and don't need table structure changes and (b) table structure changes don't take long if you already know what needs to be done -it is still much faster/cleaner for the user if you can make and test all the updates off-site then update his system with only a few minutes interruption.

One more advantage to separate files: Without it, I don't see how network optimization would be possible.

Welcome to A5,
Cal

[Tom Mills]

RE: Where are the files

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but this is very important to me. I'm trying to replace an existing database app that is sold to schools.

Everyone at a school, will see the location as the same. (G:database or J:Database)

But from school to school it will vary.

So, it's important to me that I'm able to change the location of the files for each site I sell it to.

If fact if I develop it looking at files on my C drive, I need a way to switch the location to another drive.

Certainly this must be a factor for other people. This is about a showstopper for me if I can't do it.

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Where are the files

Tom:

If you move your entire folder to an another drive/path/subfolder Alpha checks the contents of the folder in which the ADB file is located and if it finds all of the components listed in the ADB it opens the database. Based on what you said earlier about always keeping database contenta in one folder, then I don't think you'll have any problems with different locations. It could be the Q drive or a subfolder 5 levels deep, as long as the files are all together, Alpha will open the database.

However, Cal has pointed out some of the issues involved in automating the installation of a networked app. You would do well to look at these carefully. We don't deal with these issues in our business since we customize just about every installation .

Finian