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What's wrong with A5V4 ?

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    What's wrong with A5V4 ?

    After the interesting and revelatory query for a working "search"
    ( can't this screen be centered so you can see what you're
    typing ? )...button it seems that some reflection is required on
    the pros and cons of A5V4.

    1) I had a soft spot for a small and courageous database development team.
    2) It looked great in the reviews.
    3) It doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
    4) It pretty close to the current standards.
    5) here it comes...
    6) it's quirky, not quite mature.
    7) in great need of a bigger and stronger development team because of the following problems:
    a)it's not capable of providing a serious code editor, when it's so easy
    to license one of the many available out there.
    b)it's got to solve the screen size/resolution problem.
    c)the user base is far too small for any future success.
    d)they all expect a WEB related database these days ( see Claris )
    e)the Genie button is only skin deep in it's serious programming appeal.
    f)there's nothing out there in the computing bookstores to help us along. So many examples found in the great code archives proves just how much code editing is still needed ( and I like to spin out some code lines )to get anything done.

    So, what's the future going to bring in release 5 ?
    or shall I be forced to look elsewhere ?
    In the meantime I keep my old Foxpro Dos programs working and new modules are added regularly with a couple of lines of code, edited from within FP.

    Harold

    #2
    RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

    I for one can't understand why this great product is not sold retail. That really perplexes me.

    Whenever anybody mentions MS-Access or some other database, I immediately say "Go get Alpha Five", "Alpha what?" is always the response. Just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the bread-and-butter is elsewhere and this product is only side-work????

    But I really can't imagine even anybody purchasing something like a "canned" accounting package when they could custom tailor this product to do "exactly" what they need. Even for a check-book. I could never have accomplished some of the things I have done using Alpha Four and now getting into A5 without this product. I tried Foxpro 2.5-dos, forget about it; way over my head.

    My feeling is that this thing would sell like hot-cakes, but what do I know.

    Mike
    Thank you,
    Mike Konoff

    Comment


      #3
      RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

      Look at it this way. When A5 does get marketed / sold retail and become mainstream, we'll all have the first jump on the good high-paid contracts and jobs. I always push A5 as an option and point out A5s strengths. For the job reqs listing 2+ years using A5 you can respond that you've used it for 10 years (and maybe even that you were/are on the beta team). Today the market is hot for Oracle and Cold Fusion programmers. Tomorrow, A5.

      (Ooops. Forgot that the boss reads and responds on here daily.)

      Except, of course, those of use perfectly happy with our present positions.

      Comment


        #4
        RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

        To avoid getting the blue frame on the left use the following for your link to the message board:
        http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/alphaphorum/alpha_page.php3?command=loginform

        Having used VB and Access (among others), I don't have any concerns about using A5. There are only a couple issues I have (such as all forms, etc, being maximized instead of just the one(s) you want while the others stay smaller so you can have "floating" forms). I use A5 to prototype apps for the web and then we 1) have our Oracle team (a partner) convert everything if it's a simple stand-alone, or 2) use Cold Fusion ODBC to A5 for more complex apps. When I have time I'll write a couple scripts to automatically convert A5 forms to Cold Fusion screens in Cold Fusion (after I learn Cold Fusion).

        I've yet to be able to use ANYONE'S Genies to do any serious programming. As far as I'm concerned Genies are only for use in very simple things (although they can do a lot).

        You'll love the enhancements that are available in v5. Among the many new and powerful features they have a very nice editor (although I'd like to be able to change the default colors for types of lines - ie: comments, code, etc - for readiblity; not having looked for how to change them maybe it's already in there).

        There is a need for after market books. If you have the time, you write one. And trying to get any book in a bookstore isn't that easy, unless you can get a big-time publisher to handle you. Still, you could advertise and maybe even sell it through the A5 site.

        Selwyn has said they'll be posting a list of v5's new features sometime in October. After playing with v5 a bit, I'd expect it to be a sizable list (depending on what info he wants released to the public prior to making v5 available for purchase). They've done a great job.

        v5 is stable and powerful. And, as they said in an old spaghetti sauce (Prego?) commercial, "It's in there."

        Comment


          #5
          RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

          Harold:
          ... it's quirky, not quite mature.

          All programs are quirky and not quite mature. It does not matter who makes it, how long it has been in existence, your can describe all programs as quirky and not mature. It is in the nature of all things software.

          ... in great need of a bigger and stronger development team

          Well, so is Access and Oracle and Sybase for that matter. I have found that the issue is not really how many software mechanics one has, but rather how good they are. And, if you look at Alpha and just compare it to itself, the growth that all of us on the board have seen in less than a few years shows how strong their development team has been. And
          since I happen to be privy to some of their beta product, I can tell you that it is quite powerful.


          a)it's not capable of providing a serious code editor, when it's so easy to license one of the many available out there.

          code editors are like pizza or Chinese food-what I like you may not. I won't eat a Dominoes Pizza anymore, but millions
          do.

          it's got to solve the screen size/resolution problem.

          I have utilize A5v4 on every size screen there is. From
          my old laptop to my newest. From a 15" inch to a 21". From
          low resolution to the highest available.

          the user base is far too small for any future success.

          Well, I agree that the professional developer base is far too small. It is growing, but indeed it is small as compared to other rapid development platforms. I believe however that this can be readily fixed by the internet.

          they all expect a WEB related database these days ( see Claris )

          This is true, and A5v5 is very web related. Lets just say that every one of our reports--and we have hundreds from orders to results to invoices to updates all can be automatically converted to PDF format and attached to your
          e-mail program--all through A5v5. And more...

          the Genie button is only skin deep in it's serious programming appeal.

          The Genie button's abilities are up to you. If you watch the board, you will notice that some folks use no X basic and have for them robust programs. Others utilize the Genie to develop all kinds of powerful programs. Others utilize the Genie to determine how A5 does what it does, and then extrapolates this to develop their own code.

          A5 is powerful. There are a lot of powerful A5 software
          developers out there--just looking at the board for a day or two will reveal them. There is always room for improvement in everything that Alpha does, and will do. There is room for improvement in all products. The issue as I see it is whether Alpha is willing to improve.

          My final answer: Its obvious by their continued product development that Alpha is willing to improve. In my experience I have learned that one software product cannot do all things. We cannot expect Alpha 5 to do all things.
          As long as it continues to learn from its users, appreciates its users and continues to develop its programs, the professional user base will increase. I would much rather
          do a search from my easy chair on the board or archive or on Dr. Wayne�s site or the others that have recently developed than waste my time pouring through help books.

          Of course that's not to say that a Dr. Wayne book or the likes is not always appreciated. But digital publishing is
          now right on all of the Alpha sites.

          Stick with it, learn it, relish its quirks and you will find that Alpha 5 is capable of running a national company servicing a high volume, price restricted business--or yours.

          Good Luck.







          Comment


            #6
            RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

            First of all, I'm a mere dabbler compared to many of these folks. I started with microcomputers back when if you wanted it to do anything but glow at you, you programmed, and I did my fair share. On the other hand, when application programs became available that saved me the time and effort, I jumped at them.

            I know a fair number of the frustrations people experience with Alpha Five and many of the shortcomings of Alpha Five -- I've strayed and purchased, borrowed, and/or taken classes in several of the competing products. I've even tried duplicating what I've already done with Alpha and come up short too many times.

            We all wish Alpha would do more of what we want, and I've found other products that do some things that Alpha can't or doesn't do as well, but when I look at the total package, the competition either runs short on capability before I run out of ambition or requires a much greater investment of my time for similar return. There are, obviously, some tasks for which a different product is a better match for the requirements at hand, but Alpha Five covers a fair amount of what most folks require.

            And I'm just curious. You say you retreat to the comfort of FoxPro DOS when your Alpha frustrations pile up. Did you ever try the Alpha DOS products? They could also do an amazing amount without the kind of effort required by the competition.

            Comment


              #7
              RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

              FWIW

              I first developed my fraud tracking database with A4v5 & 6. It was fairly thorough, blinking lights (fields) and all, most with very little code. If it had not been for getting into windows, I'd still be using it. Although I haven't used many Dos databases, I'll stick my neck out and say it's = or better than any other on the market. And, the learning curve was emensely lower than ANY windows database.

              Alas, windows is here to stay so A5v5, here I come!!

              kenn
              TYVM :) kenn

              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

              Comment


                #8
                RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                Everyone wants the perfect environment, of course. A noble goal. However, in this real world, we aren't going to find much that is perfect, Alpha Five being one of them. Sometimes I get so frustrated that I nearly throw in the towel, but in reading this message board, I see where others are successful with it and I know that I can be as well. It's never easy and if it is, it's probably illegal. Once you get accustomed to this message board, however, you'll see the dedication of the group of volunteers that is supporting us and Alpha Five.

                There are experts that share their knowledge here that are making huge strides (and money!!) with Alpha Five, yet they take the time to thoroughly research and assist on even the simplest of problems that users present here. How the heck much is that worth?? You just can't find that kind of dedication anywhere else today.

                Sure, Alpha Five has some quirks. So does my 1974 Chevy Nova, but I still drive it. Why? It's rock-solid.

                Do I hear an a-men out there?

                Tom Lyon

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                  AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!! AMEN!!!!!!!!!

                  "Sometimes I get so frustrated I could throw in the towel, but in reading this message board, I see where others are successful with it and I know that I can be as well."

                  You expressed my thoughts, exactly. Been there, felt that and stayed, yes I like A5, but the message board is a "tight knit bunch" who dig and dig to help out. You won't find that on any other board!

                  kenn

                  PS I've been even more frustrated with Access and help on a message board is sadly lacking.
                  TYVM :) kenn

                  Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                    Whouf...
                    I sure hope Mr. Selwyn is reading these messages for the sheer value of gratification that's being expressed so passionately !

                    On a serious note, look at the "Search failed" messages and compare the code needed there with the following in Foxpro:

                    store space(20) to that_var
                    use mydatabase index my name
                    reindex
                    locate for thisname=upper(that_var)

                    That's all folks.
                    Code editor, as I said, the one we have now is simply non-existent.
                    A window with no editing functions at all.
                    Try the code checking, it's error messages are nondescript and cryptic at the best. They don't even report errors correctly.
                    Nevertheless I still keep up the effort, must be a masochist.

                    True, all the dedicated masochists on the message board are absolutely great. Wouldn't even consider continuing without them.

                    Have a nice weekend !

                    Harold in Belgium

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                      Harold, your message at the top of the 'search fails' thread suggested that you were trying to do an indexed 'find by key'.

                      The code you just posted (for Foxpro DOS), unless I'm way off base, searches all fields in each record, not just the key fields in your index definition, right?

                      The equivalent function is readily available in Alpha Five. It's called 'find by text' and can search one field or all fields in each record.

                      Open the default form in your table and try 'find by text'.

                      Most would say it's even easier than the code you posted for a foxpro solution...

                      -- tom

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                        Why don't you weite your code with a text editor that
                        has the features you like and then cut and paste your code
                        to Alpha. It works for me.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                          I used a dos based C-based database programming language (fms86) for 16 years. Several times I took a plunge at windows and windows based, visual database languages. But Alpha was what I ended up using. My bet is that the frustration is most directly tied to the conceptually horrible transition to object oriented-event driven programming. I kept saying to myself - WHERE'S THE CODE!!! I always controlled everything from within one module with gobs of called subroutines - but, all the code was in one module, each one being 1,000 or more lines. It took me many months of transition, and a year and a half later I catch myself still lapsing back once in a while.

                          If you can make the transition you will far prefer the newer method. It is much faster and easier to produce a product. What helped me was that I was put in a position where I HAD to learn, or lose the customer base.

                          Good luck!!!
                          Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                          972 524 8714
                          [email protected]

                          ____________________
                          "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                            Hi Martin,

                            Sounds familiar and makes sense. I'm more and more enclined to
                            stick around until the new environment feels "natural" but
                            in the meantime the real word has a limited time factor, too !

                            Harold

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: What's wrong with A5V4 ?

                              Good!!!!!!!!!!!

                              I can't emphasize how many hairs I lost making the transition - but, let's face it - we have to or die.

                              in experimenting with the code keep drilling into your mind the various events - like canarrive, onarrive, canchange, etc.

                              I will be more than willing to give you any tips I can, it was the worst, but now, it was worth it.

                              just for the record:
                              For about 10 years I had one customer using my "Hearing Aid Dealer Program." He was forced by the manufacturer to use windows, email, etc. And my software would not even run under windows. Anyway, less than two years later, after aquiring and implementing Alpha, have added two more dealers, have one hot in the wings, and have all but got one really big and aggressive dealer that would be a big income producer for me. It goes without saying they never stop calling you and asking if you can get it to do this or that, which is a nver ending source of income!!!!!
                              Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                              972 524 8714
                              [email protected]

                              ____________________
                              "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                              Comment

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