upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

[jeff montgomery]

I do some simple alpha4v6 database work for a local hvac company and it consists of databases,some querys, and some report generation. When I upgrade, what can I reuse as far as scripts, forms reports etc, or am I just looking at a rebuild of the entire thing. If so, it may be more work than it is worth and we'll just stick with the dos versions, especially in light of the cost for the multi-user versions. Thanks in advance for any comments.
Jeff Montgomery

[French]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

You can use your .dbf tables. Forms, reports, scripts, etc. need to be recreated. If you anticipate doing this, it's good to get a copy of A5 and try some simple things with it to learn your way around. The A5 way of doing things is enough different from the A4 way of doing things that you can feel pretty lost at first, and you don't want to feel that way when you have a deadline to meet completing a project.

You may want to look into purchasing the Run Time package to serve multiple users, depending on what your needs are.

[jeff montgomery]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

thanks for the help.
jeff

[Aadkins101]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Jeff.....I too have been running A4v6 (DOS) which worked wonderfully, and there was an explicit instruction book to go right along with the software. Now, having acquired Windows, I am attempting to upgrade to A5, and I am finding it TOTALLY different, and required that you rebuild almost entirely. I don't know how much expertise you have in Windows, but if you have as little as I do, plan on undergoing a lot of frustration.

My application in DOS was very simple, but I am finding nothing simple about the application in A5 format. The people on this message board are anxious to assist, but they talk way over my head and I find the user guides not explicit in the least, and I have them all, including Wayne's book.

The A5 people should not assume, rather they should accompany the software with a very basic step by step procedure for those of us who have been using DOS for years.

I'm attempting conversion by trial and error, and it's taking forever. I can see that it will be sensational if I ever finish, but it's taking more time than I have to spend and I am finding it extremely frustrating.

If you decide to attempt conversion, I would suggest that you plan to maintain your DOS program, as I am doing, and experiment with A5 until you feel confident (which may take months!). You can make a copy of your A4 data, and use it for experimentation. It seems that if you don't change the field structure of your A4 databases at all, you can then delete your A4 data from your experimention tables (tables = A4 databases), make an up to date copy of your A4 stuff and append it to A5 when you are ready for final conversion - at least I think this will work although I am still insecure!

I'm going to keep at it(in my spare (?) time), and perhaps if you decide to attempt it, we can be of assistance to one another with BASICS, in BASIC terminology - sharing discoveries we make. Then perhaps we can cllaborate and write an understandable, step-by-step manual, and make a fortune!

Good luck! Amy

[Ohlen Cartmell]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Amy,
Respectfully, I think you're being a little unfair.
The expressions are nearly all the same in A4 and A5. The basic principles of database design and execution are the same regardless of the program.

Regarding instructions: Writing an exhaustive manual would be extremely difficult because of the flexibility of the program. How can you teach one user to create an invoicing program and another to keep track of baseball teams in a little league? The best one can do inexpensively is teach basics and allow the users to learn the rest.

And, of course, all the experts on this board are willing to help the amatuers making this the best bargain in database programs anywhere.

Regards,
Ohlen

[Geoffrey Hollander]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Amy,

Ohlen has a point but, because my girlfriend is also a "DOS damsel" at heart, I can understand your frustration. The problem with DOS and some of the reasons many of us went forward into Windows were mainly because it could only do one thing at a time, was a non-intuitional interface and only handleed disk real estate and memory in a very rudimentary way.

The thing about Windows (bear with me here), especially Win 98, that frustrated her was there were so many ways to do the same things. As Brian Livingston says in his Windows 98 Secrets (one of the best books on the subject -- the one you should get if you get any books at all) says that if you're not using Windows the way that YOU want to work, you don't have it configured properly. He suggests that a new user decide how they wish to move through the system and get it to perform for them.

For example, it makes sense to pick one way of getting at folders and launch programs; some have icons all over their desktop (i.e. my girlfriend), others, like myself, can't stand the clutter and work from the Task Bar or the programs menu. Once you have defined which features and options you want to put to use and which you'll just ignore, things will get much easier and faster to accomplish.

Alpha Five is the same way. There are many ways to accomplish the same operations from [what are in my opinion] over-simplified Genies that take you through each step of your selected operation, to writing your own Xbasic code and creating stand-alone applications. BUT, the most important thing to remember while you're making this transition is that you can quickly learn to do most things the easy way first and then add to the depth of your working knowledge and skill a step at a time.

For what it's worth, I put off changing from Alpha Four to Alpha Five until version 3 -- and even then, I did not go gentle into that good night. But the change was well worth it and, I believe others on thes message board will agree, you will find it so as well. In the mean time if you need any help, tips or tricks, don't hesitate to ask questions here. Someone will always help...

Best regards,

Geoff Hollander

[Geoffrey Hollander]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Amy,

Ohlen has a point but, because my girlfriend is also a "DOS damsel" at heart, I can understand your frustration. The problem with DOS and some of the reasons many of us went forward into Windows were mainly because it could only do one thing at a time, was a non-intuitional interface and only handleed disk real estate and memory in a very rudimentary way.

The thing about Windows (bear with me here), especially Win 98, that frustrated her was there were so many ways to do the same things. As Brian Livingston says in his Windows 98 Secrets (one of the best books on the subject -- the one you should get if you get any books at all) says that if you're not using Windows the way that YOU want to work, you don't have it configured properly. He suggests that a new user decide how they wish to move through the system and get it to perform for them.

For example, it makes sense to pick one way of getting at folders and launch programs; some have icons all over their desktop (i.e. my girlfriend), others, like myself, can't stand the clutter and work from the Task Bar or the programs menu. Once you have defined which features and options you want to put to use and which you'll just ignore, things will get much easier and faster to accomplish.

Alpha Five is the same way. There are many ways to accomplish the same operations from [what are in my opinion] over-simplified Genies that take you through each step of your selected operation, to writing your own Xbasic code and creating stand-alone applications. BUT, the most important thing to remember while you're making this transition is that you can quickly learn to do most things the easy way first and then add to the depth of your working knowledge and skill a step at a time.

For what it's worth, I put off changing from Alpha Four to Alpha Five until version 3 -- and even then, I did not go gentle into that good night. But the change was well worth it and, I believe others on thes message board will agree, you will find it so as well. In the mean time if you need any help, tips or tricks, don't hesitate to ask questions here. Someone will always help...

Best regards,

Geoff Hollander

[Geoffrey Hollander]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Oops, sorry for the double post...

[Rodger Bailey]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Amy:

I'm in the same boat you are in, but I have a deadline for making the conversion.

For me the conversion I have had to start with is a frame-of-reference shift. First, I had to change my vocabulary: files to tables, applications to ?, database to ?, etc. . .

Second, I had to change my thinking about what I'm trying to do. Before (in A4V4), I was writing scripts to do stuff. Now, I'm manipulating windows (the scripts seem to be byproducts).

So, because the vocabulary is so different, and the frame-of-reference has shifted so dramatically, I have had to change my thinking (and therefore my language) to be able to ask the kinds of questions for which I need help.

Rodger

[jbeddes]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

The above comments are all fairly valid. From my experience I have found that the basic structure of you database and tables is not significantly different. Forms are different in that you have more at your disposal than just field rules to influence what happens when you enter, or exit the field. Plus one of the big differences in Windows with Alpha Five is that you can initate action on events, which is a new concept from Alpha Four. Once you grasp that big difference you will be on the road to better understanding of how to use Alpha Five. It will open up new processing opportunities that are not achievable in Alpha Four.
As Geof said, you can start with using the Genies and Action Scripts first, then later as you understand them, move into using some Xbasic and such. Usually you will learn those things when you are forced to solve a problem that the simpler methods won't solve. There is no need to start off in Xbasic for everything. I'm no expert in this at all, because most things I need to do can be done with the simpler methods, but I learn new things as I go along when the need presents it's self.
I hope you don't get discouraged. It isn't necessarily a cakewalk, but its not that hard or I couldn't do it. It helps if you can learn while not doing a critical or deadline job. But good luck.
Jerry Beddes

[jeff montgomery]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Thanks for all the posts. While I don't have a time constraint I do have to decide whether we will keep Alpha 5 or not within the alotted 60 day trial period. Right now it's a 50-50 proposition. Dunno if I really like what I see.
Again, thanks to all for the insights.
Jeff Montgomery

[CALocklin]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Maybe there is one other aspect to consider, Jeff. Do you want to stick with DOS or is it time to switch to Windows? If you decide to switch to Windows, A5 will be the easiest way for you to do it. (Note: I didn't say easy, I said easiest.)

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Jeff, let me add 2 cents worth here.

Many Alpha Four users have built surprisingly robust database applications with it. Most, like me, felt that it would (should?) be a snap to implement the same functionality in a Windows application. For me this did not prove true. My first effort to build the whole darn thing, soup to nuts, with all field rules, relations, indices, and so on was not successful and was very frustrating.

Encouraged by others however, I went back and broke the application down into more manageable chunks. Did some reading. Built a small piece - one form using one table, add, edit, delete, cancel, save buttons, and a custom menu. It took a while, but was a great springboard for other work.

Second step involved passing information from one form to another, and then back again.

Third step involved learning how to filter the database tables as needed for reports, and then linking to the report engine.

These are the essentials needed for all applications. With these concepts in hand I successfully completed the conversion and haven't looked back since.

Alpha Five provides a robust set of interface tools... easy way to interrogate the user and get a numeric or text response... use checkboxes... use listboxes... the works...

If you're going to be doing database support work using a Windows tool, for modestly sized multi-user applications, I daresay you can't beat Alpha Five.

-- tom

[jeff montgomery]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Cal, thanks for the great point and thanks for pointing it out. I have however been happily using a4v6 under windows for several years now both under 95 and 98. It works great so that is not really the deciding issue for me. however with the encouragement of this and other posts I may be leaning to A5.
Thanks for your help.
Jeff

[jeff montgomery]

RE: upgrade alpha4 to alpha 5

Tom, thanks for the encouragement.
Jeff