The Cost of RT?

[David Sander]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Tom,

This is actually not a bad idea. Give away a designers RT version in order to spur application development. I believe that Bill Gates essentially gave away DOS with the idea that the software developed for it would drive the market share.

Dave

[David Sander]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Let me ask the question: "Are we converting Access Programmers to Alpha Five yet?"

Part of the question of pricing depends on the actual mode of use that Alpha Five is being put to. One mode of use is the interested party who needs a database, starts their own, and so trains themself in it. This is one path and its price sensitive because the user tends to pick up whatever is around and start working with it to produce results.

The second mode of use is the personal relationship between a programmer and a client. The hope is that the client will grow and continue to request more projects from the programmer he knows. Successful technical people are hard to come by and after a year of use the customer will have a significant investment in training and data for Alpha. This path is not as price sensitive because there are already real price issues involved and Alpha is not the major cost.

The third mode of use is where a programmer builds an application intending to sell many copies to a market of users or even a single copy of a 100 user database. This project is more sensitive to the quality of implementation than a reasonably competitive price.

The fourth mode is when the customer asks for a particular database in a RDMS and hires people to code it. The RDMS is sold by reputation and the coders learn to use it. I might add that there are plenty of Access programmers out there who could convert to Alpha easily if the work was available.

Alpha seems to currently make most of its sales by users who adopt it or by programmer/customer relationships. Can we improve on this?

So which of these types of sales is going to be the most profitable for Alpha and can we adjust the pricing to suit two or three of these types of markets? The more people Alpha can help the more secure its future will be.

Dave

[CraigSchumacker]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Ken:

It is not even close to on par... I can't find anything that has similar pricing for runtime modules. (Please don't use your Word example, as that's a production license.)

www.filemaker.com. Currently $700 for developer and runtime versions, but runtime version 6 has not been released. It may go up $100 or so.

As I see it, most new users will opt for this over version 5. To them, it's $4300 in the bank! I downloaded it several months ago. It's easy to learn, but different than Alpha.

I'll wait and watch what A.S. does. If they actually run with the posted prices, I'll wait. My guess is the price will come down drastically a month or two after release. I don't want to lose thousands of dollars when this occurs!

Well, it was fun looking forward to version 5 while it lasted!!!

Craig

[Keith Hubert]

RE: The Cost of RT?

The registered version will only run on the same machine if it has the same "Name". So if you destop and laptop are not both named "Ken" then you will need two copys. That is how I understand it. This is OK as it is better than the program checking that the CD is in the drive.

Keith Hubert
London.

[Helen Freeman]

RE: The Cost of RT?

I�m sure Alpha will find all this advice and comment on their pricing structure interesting and maybe take some notice of it. But Alpha will set its price and some are bound to be disappointed that it is too expensive for RT. Surely if Alpha give a few different packages of RT�s there will be one to suit most.
I sure hope Alpha make loads of $$$ however they do it.

Dave Jampole�s comments on getting Alpha out to the college community seems great. Perhaps a student price like MS does would help?
One company I know well used to sell instruments to medical students in Singapore at student reduced prices. It was a great starter because that brand became the brand of choice for many doctors for their careers. However the company stopped exporting about 12 years ago and a Japanese supplier stepped in. Loyalty and first preference has now switched to the Japanese known brand.
But at the end of the day, where is Alpha 5v5? It�s always on the horizon but so far never here. 1 year, 2 years, 6 months, next month, this month? I�ll believe it when I see it for sale.
Helen

[Bob Whitaker]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Amen to that Helen, I think the time has come for Alpha to give us both a firm release date and to confirm pricing. Whilst I appreciate that Alpha wants to increase its revenue stream, and after all which of us doesn't, a dramatic shift in pricing structure such as has been speculated on in this thread would be regrettable to say the least. I appreciate that V5 is a great product and a major step forward, but so it should be, otherwise why would we want to buy it at all. My company has bought several versions of A4 A5 full and unlimited runtime and my memory is not perfect but I seem to remember we paid $400 approx for last unlimited runtime and to see that increased tenfold would not be sustainable for us.
Bob Whitaker
United Kingdom

[Peter Langford]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Amen indeed!! I've paid for every incarnation of Alpha since A4v3 (except A4v7) both full version and unlimited runtime so I reckon I've done my bit to support Alpha over the years.

I enquired in mid 2000 about a Linux version and was told that it was on the agenda but not until the relaese of v5 in or about September. I wrongly assumed they meant September 2000 so now in July 2002, now after so much time has passed, I think we are entitled to some real solid information from Alpha, namely, WHEN will it be released and HOW MUCH will it cost?

That's all we need to make a purchasing decision, all this bickering is damaging to Alpha's reputation and at times quite unseemly.

Peter Langford (UK)

[Jamin Dunivan]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Hi People.

I love using Alpha 5, but I think they may be making a mistake here. One of the reasons I went with Alpha was the priceperformance ratio. A5 has filled a void as a low cost database. Now they are moving away from there current niche to trying to compete with the big boys, which is quite an upgrade in performance and price. This I fear will drive away the customers who bought A5 because of its priceperformance ratio which I believe is many of them. This is the crossroad they are at now. Without better market share to lure the larger buisnesses in, I think this pricing scheme will fail. They will lose a lot of small buisnesses and small time developers. If I go to my IT department who eats, drinks and sleeps Microsoft and ask for $1499 for A5V5 10 user RT, they will respond "Alpha what???"(When I asked to install this on the secretaries desktop last year, I actually heard them say it). I am all for A5 "Evolving", but there market share has to match there price. I will not be able to justify that kind of money for a relatively unheard(in my company at least) of product.

Yes V5 is really neat looking but I will not be able to sell my boss on a 3 user RT for $699. If it were $699 for a 10 user lic. then maybe. I will probably move on to doing everything with PERL and MySQL using a web browser as a UI. Not as easy but not extremely hard either.

I hope a middle ground can be found in all this. I hope the best for Alpha even if I end up moving on for the moment.

Thanks
Jamin Dunivan

[glenschild]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Peter,

I phone the sales line at Alpha yesterday (15th) and was advised they hope to release this week!

The Beta software has not been updated since 2 July and has now been removed from the ftp site! So by my reckoning judgement day is very very VERY nearly upon us.

I also have purchased every upgrade since A4v3 (having got A4v2 as a freebie on a magazine cover disk.

I may be "not a normal developer" if there is such a thing! as the majorty of the applications I have developed are used by me in my own business. Each time I have upgraded I have asked myself the question, "will I recoup the finacial layout and if yes how long will it take" The answer everytime has been "yes".

Version 5 from what I have experienced from the beta version is going to save me time and also enable me to progress my applications to a level far greater than I could have dreamed of doing in v4.5 and in the process will help my revenue streams. So the question for me is not IF I will recoup the cost BUT how long it will take.

Yes I have the unlimited runtime in v4.5 which is overkill at present as it is only used on a 4 machine network at present, but as and when the runtime costs are formally annoucned I will then make the decision on the best package for me.

With Selwyn declaring the target market being primarily the MS Access and Filemaker users, I guess I fall smack in the middle of the target audience and I can categorically state that they could offer those other 2 packages for 10% of the cost of A5 and I would still go nowhere near them! But I am converted!

To my way of thinking the major challenge for A5 is not the cost (yes it has some impact) but the awareness of exactly what A5 can deliver when compared to the other products out there, because I think we are not comparing like for like as A5 is far superior to its supposed rivals!

Anyway I have rambled enough (and gone off topic!)

Just my 2 pence worth from the UK!

Glen

[Helen Freeman]

RE: The Cost of RT?

I seem to recall the unlimited RT sold with some earlier versions was a special offer price. I don�t expect a special offer price every time I buy something.
Anyway I wonder how many distributions have been produced by those who have unlimited RT? Maybe they produced 20 or 50 or 5000. (Anyone want to say?) If there was a price for varying numbers of RTs appropriate to their needs, it may be more palatable.
OK it�s nice to have unlimited RT and it may be nice to live in a 200 room mansion, even if one only really uses 20 rooms.

Helen

[Bob Houle]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Selwyn,
Let's put the shoe on the other foot. As most users are aware, CodeBase forms the database engine for Alpha.

I visited the CodeBase web site to see what **their** policy was and it states:

Royalty-Free
CodeBase allows royalty-free distribution for all supported configurations, including client/server. This means you can even distribute the CodeBase server engine and all associated utilities free from royalties.

If they changed their policy and raised their price to say: $75 to $100 for each copy of Alpha that you produced... you'd jump ship. You'd now have to raise the base price of Alpha by $150 per copy (extra office, laywer's expenses, etc.). AND THAT'S WHOLESALE! At the retail level, users could expect a 300-400 dollar increase. You'd have NO choice.

Users look at Alpha in the same way you look at CodeBase. Alpha Five is only a tool they use to create **their** masterpiece. If that tool becomes dull, or too expensive, they move on. Trouble is, they won't tell you when... they'll just do it.

Keep the 'royalties' reasonable.

Regards,
--Bob

[John Dodson]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Interesting discussion, no question there is some passion about A5.

Before commenting, I have one dumb question. Will multiple access full applications (e.g. the 3-packs, 5-packs) be sold as well as multiple access Runtimes? Or must everyone purchase the runtimes?

Thanks.

[Keith Hubert]

RE: The Cost of RT?

John

I think that will depend on your own needs and the costs of the packages. It could be that a 3 station user pack will be cheaper than 1 Developer Kit and a 3 node RT. Then that would be just for your own use. You would still need to buy the RT if the app was to be used by another company. Since the Developer Kit can only run on a registered machine, how about we all named our computers "Selwyn"!!!

Keith Hubert
London.

[John Dodson]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, that is what I am trying to determine, since I delevop apps in-house only. Will 3, 5 - user packs still be available? and if so, how much in comparison to the Runtimes? The beta looks fantastic, but if the price is exponential (I work for a private non-profit and capital outlay is hard to come by) the issue may be, for small potato guys like me, of Alpha competing with itself (e.g. ver 4.5 with 5.0). I also have an application I'd like to put on the web, so I am wondering about pricing on the new application server.

[Keith B]

RE: The Cost of RT?

Amen Martin. New users is where its at for Alpha and the new Ver 5. I too am just completely alienated by the whole pricing topic at this point. If this keeps up - it will just plan make life easier to move on.