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The Cost of RT?

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  • The Cost of RT?

    The other thread is getting so long that I thought I'd continue it on a new one only for the purpose of loading time and finding the various resposnes quickly. This is the last post by Keith Hubert:

    Msg ID: 63942
    Subject: RE: Alpha5v4.5 or Wait?
    Author: Keith Hubert
    Date: 07-14-2002 5:20 AM

    Having read this thread the concern of "Alpha who?" is very real, end users want to know that there is backup and support available beyond the salesman. Without market recognition the fear is there.
    The finest brushes and the best paints will not make us into artists. How ever Alpha will be build with ease of development, each application must be regarded as a tailor made suit to fit the customers needs of the moment. Their concern is not how easy it was to develope, if they think it was easy why should they pay a lot for it.
    We are not in the market to sell millions of applications so therefor we don't need to set up a big plant. Each Rolls Royce sold cost more than a Ford but the cost of the Ford plant cost more than Rolls.
    I know computer programs are just another working tool to help us do our jobs a liitle more effeciantly but the price of any application will need to made on the benifits the customer will gain.
    I would like to see the RT 1-5 $500, 6-20 £1000 20+ $3000 The Developers Kit could be sold for $150, This would speed up market recognition and share. I believe this would be fair to developers and their potential customers.
    Hopefully with the aid of Alpha I will be able to develope the applications I have in mind and move up the RT ladder but I know that I will not be able to sell them to the small users that we have here in the UK if the RT licence plus the developement cost are too expencive, they would rather carry on with the way they have for the last 100 years. This is no joke, some companies do not even have a computer.

    Keith Hubert

    Hi Keith,

    "Each Rolls Royce sold cost more than a Ford but the cost of the Ford plant cost more than Rolls."

    But there are hundreds of thousands more Fords than than Rolls. If the cost of the plant is figured on the number of vehicles it turned out, the Ford plant cost less than the Rolls plant.

    In the same vein, if I create an app for someone and it's just for them, yes it will cost them more than if the app were for sale to the general public. That's why many of the commercial apps sell so cheaply, create one and then make copies.

    However, I'll also weigh in on the likehood of selling RT apps to other clients with more than 3 computers. If that is very likely, I'll take a chance and reduce the portion of what it cost me for the RT, spread it out over X # of apps.

    I'll be buying the 3-user RT and if I have a client that needs more than 3 seats, I figure in the upgrade cost, the difference between the two and then charge that as extra if it's a one time deal. If I think I can attract others with a need for more than a 3 seat RT, I reduce the fee a bit.

    I won't be charging one price for the app and then a separate price for the app. No, just one price for both. When you buy software, you don't buy the software and pay extra for RT. I've tried to give away apps (free) and told them all they had to do was to buy A5 for $79. Absolutely no takers. RT means I can distribute my app w/th RT as much as I want.

    In the other vein, many small companies who bought A5 for their own use, may find the pricing a bit stiff. I already heard from one person that they're going with another product. These are the folks that the pricing will affect and I don't like to see that happen. They, no doubt, will either stay w/v4.5 or look elsewhere.

    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

  • #2
    RE: The Cost of RT?

    One of the main reasons I went to the User Conference was to see if the release date for V5 would be announced and check on the pricing structure. In one conversation with Selwyn, with many others inquiring about various combinations of upgrades at the same time, I was informed that the "upgrade" price for the unlimited runtime would be "nominal".

    I'll have to check my Funk & Wagnall's for the exact definition, but $5000 less the original $699 doesn't seem to qualify as "nominal".
    There can be only one.


    • #3
      RE: The Cost of RT?

      My suggestion to Alpha would be to offer a gretaer variety in the RT offering and price accordingly.

      3-user: $300
      5-user: $500
      10-user: $1000
      25-user: $1500
      50-user: $2000
      100-user: $3000
      250-user: $3500
      1000-user: $4000
      Unlimited: $5000

      Something like that. You get the idea.

      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC


      • #4
        RE: The Cost of RT?

        I would like to see the RT offered free (or very minimal cost) to developers, since in marketing an application you will also be selling Alpha's RT version. A partnership where developers provide a "value added".

        I doubt I will be able to add the cost of the runtime to my application cost, hence I'll need to absorb the cost. OUCH!



        • #5
          RE: The Cost of RT?

          It is true that I had many conversations about pricing of V5 at the conference, and I honestly don't remember each and every one of these conversations, but I can't imagine that I would have given the indication that one could go from V4 or V4.5 to V5 Runtime for a nominal price. And if anyone came away from a conversation with me with the belief the upgrade cost would be nominal, then that it a really unfortunate misunderstanding.

          It is also true of course that the cost of the V4.5 Runtime (whether you paid for it as a full version, or an upgrade will be rebated on the purchase of a V5 Runtime), I don't see how anyone can expect the price of going from V4 Runtime to V5 Runtime to be 'nominal'.


          • #6
            RE: The Cost of RT?

            I must be missing something here.

            How does giving away the RT to the developer provide any eventual benefit to Alpha?

            Once the developer owns a license to the RT they sell their app to their customers as many times as they want, and Alpha never participates in this revenue stream at all.


            • #7
              RE: The Cost of RT?


              You buy the RT. I think it's a silly notion to have the client buy it. You loose on that deal. Now he can buy A5 later on, change your app and bye bye Tommy! He only has to add some features to it and your had.

              RT must be included with your app. No way to get around that unless you want him to buy A5. So, package the app and RT in one sweet deal, one price. The client doesn't even need to know there's a separate program with the app you created.

              TYVM :) kenn

              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


              • #8
                RE: The Cost of RT?

                FWIW: You may remember that in the conference last March, Ira Perlow said that he always requires his clients to buy the runtime directly from Alpha. "More money for Alpha" as he put it.

                AlphaBase Solutions, LLC



                • #9
                  RE: The Cost of RT?

                  That's true. Who's going to sell the client on the app, Ira or Alpha?

                  Peter, if you designed an app for someone and you needed to get $2,500 for it and say they have 6 stations, what's it gonna take to convince them to spend another $1500 for RT? Are you not better off to spread your RT out over X number of clients so you're charging $2,995?

                  Betcha Ira has changed his tune with the new pricing.

                  TYVM :) kenn

                  Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


                  • #10
                    RE: The Cost of RT?


                    Good point. Asking the client to buy the runtime at $699 a pop is a bit different than $1500 - or more. I still think Alpha need to offer more variety in the RT packages along the lines of my suggestion above.

                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC



                    • #11
                      RE: The Cost of RT?

                      Ya all know I've supported Selwyn with ways to justify and figure the cost. For a developer, it can be done fairly easy.

                      HOWEVER, it's the folks like Steve Pick (See Alpha5v4.5 or Wait thread) that will leave A5 cause they can't afford or justify the price. He's the 2nd one I know about. The other guy is history with A5. He went elsewhere. Those small businesses who are looking for a databse, may well not consider A5 because of the prices.

                      I understand where Alpha's coming from when they want to price it by the number of users. But, would it be better to price it, as Peter Greulich suggested above AND include v5 with the RT? One price, that's it. When ya gotta add this and then add that, it adds up and soon it's out of the market especially for small business. I can tell you w/o a doubt, there's no way the county I work for would spend that kind of money. They'll look elsewhere or keep the old.

                      TYVM :) kenn

                      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


                      • #12
                        RE: The Cost of RT?

                        Iíll tell you another thing, I donít want to be on the board when Nehru finds out heíll need to spend half his countryís GNP on the run-time!


                        • #13
                          RE: The Cost of RT?

                          If I buy, say, a 5 user version of the runtime - try this:

                          for 1 client i install it at 14 locations where they have 1 workstation (current situation is 9, but will be to 14 by the end of this month)

                          i install it at 10 locations where I have 2-5 work stations (hypothetical - futuristic)

                          i later install it to, (am actually working on this one,) 30 locations where they have 1 work station, and 1 with 3 work stations)

                          59 installations:cost of alpha = 1 purchase of 5 user runtime + 1 purchase of full version for me

                          with version 5, in this hypothetical scenario, say I have 800 invested/59=13.56 per workstation

                          Last year I billed for and collected over 100,000.00 doing custom programming with Alpha as my only tool. So, say I bought Alpha myself, last year alone I made a gross profit of 99,200.00 - and this year I would have no Alpha to deduct from my overhead.

                          Actually, my client also pays for Alpha. I don't use the runtime - we use full versions. I had a bad experience with the runtime where it would crash when the full wouldn't - although this was maybe 2 years ago - so I converted to full version.

                          After Version 5 comes out and I can test it with the Version 5 runtime I may go back to runtime for my biggest client, as he is growing.
                          Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                          972 524 8714

                          "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw


                          • #14
                            RE: The Cost of RT?

                            No guts, no glory!!

                            TYVM :) kenn

                            Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.


                            • #15
                              RE: The Cost of RT?

                              Close but the 5 pack is not RT, you'll need to get the 10-user RT at $1499 and the single user is $299, $1798

                              Or, buy the 5-pack $1099(Non RT and asuming it's an upgrade) and the single user $299 = $1398

                              TYVM :) kenn

                              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.