Still trying to use cd as backup

[BDennis]

I'm starting a new thread, but have asked the question before, approx 24/2/2002. I have tried those responses, got closer to realising I have extensive stupidity with anything to do with computors. I am reluctant to work much more on this application, without knowing I can back it up- and I cannot!
We have a new computor, fairly ok spec, I think. It will take over from our old one running Win 3.1, with a big (for me) application in Alpha 4 Ver 2,3,4,5 then 6.
I want to use the cd rewriter as a backup method for A5 files. I thought that would be easy.
I can get files backed up onto the cd. I can then add those tables back frm the cd to a control panel, and read them ok. But they are still on the d:drive. I cannot copy them, rename file, or copy the records, etc, to a c:drive file; and thus cannot get them back to use them. Therefore do not feel I could recover frm a problem using cd as backup.
From the control panel, files, properties, I see they are with read-only attributes. I assume that is the problem. I cannot change that attribute.
Any help will be appreciated.

Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian,

Once the files are written to the CD, why not use Windows Explorer to select and copy them back to the hard drive? You can restore them to the original data folder, or put them in another folder quite easily. The one catch, as has been mentioned before, is that the file attributes are probably going to be 'read only' on any file you copy from the CD. Changing the 'read only' attribute to 'read write' is very, very easy. In this scenario you continue to 'run' the app using data stored on the hard drive.

If you are determined to try to 'run' your application using data stored on the CD I think you've reached the right conclusion. It probably can't be done. The fact that you can write to the CD and then read from it does not make the CD drive equivalent to a hard drive, at least not until the CD manufacturer figures out a way to let you store data there without setting the read write attritbute to 'read only'. Rather than a hard drive, I think the CD resembles a tape drive. See the difference? Anyway, if you think of the CD as a simple backup device, storing data there for safety, and then restoring it to your hard drive when you need it, it should work fine.

-- tom

[BDennis]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Tom,

Thanks for your response.

I am trying to do as you say, get the files back to the data folder, and then use them. I am not trying to use them from the CD, don�t see any point in that.
The catch, I think, is that they have read-only attributes. You say "Changing the 'read only' attribute to 'read write' is very, very easy. " How do I do it? I have tried using right button, properties, change attributes; does�nt let me change them. Haven�t tried batch files, but wouldn�t know how to and don�t want to, but could learn if necessary.
I consider that is my real problem, ie. changing the file attribute from read-only to something I can open and copy/use.

I cannot see why it should make any difference, but our system is in Portuguese, Windows ME Portugues, with Portuguese keyboard, settings, etc. Error messages are also in Portuguese, but they correspond the the English.

Thanks again for the assistance.

Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian,

I'm glad you're not trying to use the files while they're stored on the CD. However, in your first message in this thread you said that you tried 'adding' them to the control panel from the 'D' drive. That's how you would do it if you DID plan to use them from the CD drive, instead of from the hard drive. So that's how I got the idea you were determined to try to access them directly from the CD with Alpha Five.

Standby for step by step instructions on changing the file attributes.

-- tom

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian,

Here's how I would do it:

1) Close alpha five completely.

2) If others on your local network are using alpha five, arrange for them to close down alpha five completely, also. You need to have exclusive access to the data files, and won't if others (including yoursel) are using them elsewhere.

3) Using Windows Explorer copy the files from the CD to the folder in which your database is located. (Hopefully you are following the recommended strategy, putting each database in its own folder, and storing all tables that belong to that database in that same folder. If not, you have other problems beyond the read write issue at hand, here)

4) Use Windows Explorer and browse to the database folder on your hard drive. This is the folder where your data files live, not the folder where Alpha Five program files live.

5) Choose Edit from the menu bar at top of screen

6) choose Select All from the drop down menu

7) Right Click any of the selected files

8) Choose Properties from the drop down list

9) Uncheck the Read Only setting in the Attributes box at the bottom of the dialog.

10) Click Apply

11) click Ok

12) Close Windows Explorer

Nothing to it. Just have to remember that the attribute setting is a property of each file.

-- tom

[Ken L Herrold]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Great Instruction Tom as always

The DOS version to do the same if he would like to try would be....

While logged on to the involved directory he can type

attrib -r *.* /s

This will remove the read only attrib from all files in the root [logged] folder and all files in any sub folders under it.

Ken

[Ken L Herrold]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Also,

I've written stuff that rendered forms unusable and then you can't get at them to fix them. This, among other horrors, might be what we're concerned about here.

Another thought... hard drives on new machines are massive.. he could easily just save the current session to another folder on the hard drive. While it wouldn't help with a total disk crash, if would be a quicker way to recover from a startup form that craps out and freezes after it has hidden the control panel.

Right?

Ken

[BDennis]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Tom,

Thnks a lot for your quick reply: I�m beat tonight, but I�ll try it tomorrow and get back to you.

This is a single user situation, - no network, etc. Not yet anyway.
When you say "storing all tables that belong to that database in the same folder" I think I�m clear, but just to confirm:-

I guess I�m still not 100% clear on database/table definition, as regards A5. In A4, I knew what a database was, eg, a list of names/addresses/etc. If those names worked for companies; then the companies would have a different database, listing company names/tax numbers/vehicles/etc. Each database would have it�s field rules, layouts, etc.

I�m still not clear why A5 doesn�t use that concept, but seems to use the word "table" to replace the A4 (and most other manufacturer�s I think) meaning for database, then use the word database as meaning something which includes lots of different lists of data, maybe somehow related. Does that mean that all data, and everything related to any of that data, is said to be in the same database; even though each list of data is not related, but is just being used in the same program, or on the same computor.

Anyway, as a result of this board, and A5 help, I think all our data, and databases, are in a folder called "data". Basically, I want to be able to back up, and recover to, that folder at any time using the CD. I did it before using a tape system on the A4, and I want to use CD on this A5 system.

Thanks for the input,

Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian, I recommend you study the first chapter of the User's Guide. The terminology is explained quite clearly there.

It's true the terms changed between Alpha Four and Alpha Five, but the change more accurately resembles the equivalent terms now used in virtually all database products except Alpha Four.

When you open a database and look at the Alpha Five control panel you are looking at the 'database'. If tables have been 'added' to that database then they should be in the same folder, in my opinion, as the database file (ADB) itself.

If you have multiple databases all stored in one folder, called Data, I think you're making things much harder for you than you need. I much prefer to put each database in its own folder, and to store all of its data within the same folder. I do not mix databases in a single folder unless the application calls for it, and I am, for example, sharing a table between two different databases.

-- tom

[John Gamble]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian
I backup to Disk(fixed removable) & to CD daily. I use Roxio
CD software & format the CD as UDF (Universal Data Format, similar to Disk). I then use Windows built in backup (.qic) nightly. This will compress your database file approx. 400 %. You may also use ZIP format. The files on CD will not be marked as read only as the CD is formated for RW. For restore , again use Windows Backup (Restore) and voila you're in business. Weekly we also do a tape backup and monthly a CD write onl backup for archive purposes.

John

[Ken L Herrold]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian:

Like John, I've used my CD-RW on a RW disk to back up and find that when configured properly, the files are NOT read only. In fact, I CAN run the app using the CD-RW disk as the data source; edit; add records; etc. and have access just like it was on the hard drive. As Tom Cone and others have suggested I always keep the database with its app files in one folder, generally as a subfolder under the A5 Program files.

Unlike John Gamble, I'm using Adaptec's 'Direct CD' option for the disk write. Adaptec requires that the disk be formatted [with its own utility] to be used in file manager, Windows Explorer, or any other disk management as a second 'HARD DISK' or floppy. You can copy and paste files at will.

Realize that you have approximately 650 Megs of space on that disk so compression might be more time comsuming than practical.

[Edward F. Schulz]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Hi Phorum,

The placing of the read-only attribute on files when copied to a burner
is well documented and very easy to get around. In most cases it is
preferable to use WinZip or a comparable application and zip the files
before copying to the burner. this will also allow for a greater amount
of data to be backed up to a single disk, since the compression ratio
on data files sometimes approaches 8 or 9 to 1. The only problem that
exists then is when your data will exceed the capacity of the burner.
However, the data can be broken up into more than 1 zip file and then
copied to more than 1 CD.

efs

[BDennis]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Tom,

Thanks for the kind help.
I followed your instructions and everything worked as per your step-by-step, except I cannot get the info of the file to appear in a table.
I put two files onto the cd.
I have tried several times to get those files so that I can see them back in A5.
Using your proceedures, I can get those files into our data folder, which is one level down from A5V4. Using explorer I can see them listed there. They are listed as normal, and properties show them without any of the three boxes ticked.
However, I cannot get either into a control panel so that they can be used. If I try to open them I get failures.
Obviously I�m doing something dumb, but any further help sure would be appreciated.

Brian.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Brian,

What else did you do?

I should think that if you had a DBF table that was working in your database,

and if

you copied the DBF file to the CD (using Windows Explorer, while Alpha Five was shut down)

and if

you copied it back from the CD, while Alpha Five was shut down, returning it to its original location, the original DBF would be overwritten by the 'restored' copy.

If you then

release the read only attribute,

Alpha Five should see it just fine.

For me to offer other ideas, you will first have to furnish detailed, step by step descriptions of each action you take, and also the resulting text of any error messages encountered along the way.

-- tom

[BDennis]

RE: Still trying to use cd as backup

Tom;
thanks again for the help. Yes, it was a dbf working in the database. I copied it to the cd, but NOT using windows explorer. I used the software supplied with the cd rewriter, which I think is BHA Gold, or something similar. I�ll check tomorrow. Whilst I was copying A5 was shut down.

I�ll go thru the actions tomorrow. I plan to take a small dbf table, copy it to cd. Then I�ll change the file to make a difference, Then try to get the saved data back.
How should I copy it, using the cd rewriter software, or try to copy it using windows explorer which I hav�nt tried?
I�ll try both, on different cd�s.

I�ll get back with the result.

Thankyou

Brian