Simple question

[dale martin]

I currently use Alpha 4 V6

I really like the fact that I can use the keyboard to maneuver
around the DB. The mouse would take much longer to place
in the fields and then move my hands back to the keyboard.


The question: Can I use the keyboard with Alpha Five or
do I have to use the mouse for placement
into the search fields?


BTW... I wouldn't go to Alpha Five, but appears that the new
version of windows will not do DOS programs....

thanks a lot !!!

dale martin

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Simple question

Dale, much of what you are accustomed to can be recreated in Alpha Five, but it's often not easy. After trying pretty hard to bend, warp, and fold my Alpha Five interface so that it looked like Alpha Four I realized, finally, that (a) I was fighting a losing battle; and (b) my end users who were familiar with Windows apps had lots of trouble since my app no longer behaved like the others they were used to.

My input screens now permit the user to navigate anywhere on the screen using only the keyboard. But I require them to use the mouse to navigate between records, or between forms.

-- tom

[dale martin]

RE: Simple question

tom,

thanks for your input. Not what I wanted to hear, but.... afraid
it might be true.

Has been a while since I did my "contact" DB, but I am sure spoiled
to using the "shortcut keys" at the bottom of the screen.

In addittion to the ones that Alpha4 supplied, I added:
View-- to display detail from a browse mode
Nxt--- next detail record
Prv--- previous detail record
sWitch-switch to a diff DB/set
Upd----update indexes

I am REALLY spoiled with the "one key" method to get me tne
next (Nxt) and Prv (previous) record.... as well as just
being able to hit "F" and then type an search argument.

Somebody tell me I am wrong and the rest of the world is right
and the mouse is quicker and easier.....

dale

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Simple question

I left DOS a long time ago but still prefer keyboarding. I have mine setup so you can do almost everything with keyboarding. I have a custom menu with hotkeyed items that take you directly to the forms. Menu items respond to Ctrl+key. I avoid the Ctrl-X Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V etc combos as standard windows tools users expect to work that way. Almost all data entry can be done right off the keyboard. I hot key buttons which are activated with Alt+key. That covers most of what is needed. But a mouse is pretty slick for some things. I have forgotten what it was like using ONLY a keyboard...

[tlyon]

RE: Simple question

Tom Cone is right, I think, in that it can be a PITA to get A5 to respond to keys. But it can be done, if that's what you really want, and believe it or not, it works quite well in most instances. The OnKey event can trap almost any keystroke.

Tom Lyon

[Ken L Herrold]

RE: Simple question

Dale:

For what it's worth.... I have a couple of clients using A4v6 applications I wrote who also have companion Windows apps. I didn't see that much complaining about mousing vs. keying for either.

I think others have the right idea. Leave this up to your client. Sometimes they prefer a mouse or at least don't object to the use of one. I think if you design an app to be principally 'keyed' during data entry and then use the mouse for 'look in' stuff, your clients will be happy with that.

With that in mind, also like others, I haven't had any trouble setting my A5 apps up in this way.

Ken

[dale martin]

RE: Simple question

I would suggest that users usually would not complain that much about
the mousing around because they don't have much basis of comparison.
They are hired to work and get the job done by the "boss" and complaining
is not usually a good idea in most office environments unless one wants
to get "labeled".

The truth is, if you don't know how much faster it can be to just touch
the "F" key to bring up the search box vs. moving your hand over to the
mouse and finding the right spot to click..... or if one doesn't do it
that often then it isn't really a big deal. Besides most people in an
office are just paid to work so much an hour so what's the difference
anyway?

Either it really ain't a big deal or I am just a picky fart. But,
I use my mouse as much as anybody now and really use my contact manager
a lot using keystrokes to manuever and I know the difference and it is
gonna bug me to have to give up the strokes for the functions that I
use all the time. But, I will get used to it if I have to.

But, geeez..... is it me or wouldn't just abt. anyone hate to have to
type a lot and everytime they wanted to use the letters "J", "K",
and "L".... they had to reach for the mouse to "click" it in. This
is about what it amounts to.

dale

[CALocklin]

RE: Simple question

I agree; keyboarding is much faster than mouse->keyboard->mouse->keyboard->mouse->keyboard->mouse->keyboard-> etc.

Unfortunately, we can't reasonably eliminate the need for a mouse in A5 but there are a lot of short cuts IF people are willing to learn different ones than they used in DOS.

A few examples:

- Page Up / Page Down instead of Next / Previous for changing records. (also UpArrow/DownArrow worked in A4)
- F6 to move from one browse to the next or out to the main form. (Like changing regions in A4)
- Just use Tab or Enter to go from one field to the next. (same as a4)
- Control-"key> instead of a simple "key> to perform an action. (EX: Ctrl-K to open the Find by Key dialog box.) OK, it's not quite as easy but it really isn't bad once you get used to it. I remember the Shift key was awkward at first but I had to learn to use it anyway - learning to use the Ctrl key should be easier now.

An interesting observation on this subject: When I visit customers and watch how they use the application, it always amazes me how much they use the mouse when it is NOT necessary. After I show them how to use shortcut keys they usually agree that it is much faster and seem excited about it. However, I often, but not always, catch them using the mouse again next time I return - go figure!?

[csda1]

RE: Simple question

Cal,

The main issue with Keyboard versus mouse is moving between the two. The most important thing to do is try to allow use of the keyboard exclusively when entering/changing data (or entering data in dialog boxes) and the mouse when randomly doing things. Minimized movement of hands is ideal.

Also, by placing invisible buttons (Hide attribute in the properties) with hotkeys (ampersand in the button text) you can have hotkeys that are easy to maintain and do not have the overhead of ONKEY events and do not show on the forms.

If you are on a mouse, the ability to navigate data (e.g. having the mouse scroll through choices in a dialog (as opposed to typing the choice) or to jump to a particular range by various selections) without resorting back to the keys is ideal.

Regards,

Ira J. Perlow
Computer Systems Design & Associates
[email protected]