Network Optimize changing permissions?

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Thank you Cheryl. You've been a big help, I've definitely learned a few things along the way - even if it still isn't solved! LOL

[Doug Page]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

One thing that comes to mind is that everything works fine on the server and you only get the permission problems locally. So to me it seems it could possibly be NTFS permissions.

You also mention in some posts that you are "copying the files" to the workstation. This step should be accomplished by the shadowing step and should not be done manually. Otherwise, some files might get missed.

After this, I too am at the end of ideas for you.

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

One thing that comes to mind is that everything works fine on the server and you only get the permission problems locally. So to me it seems it could possibly be NTFS permissions.

You also mention in some posts that you are "copying the files" to the workstation. This step should be accomplished by the shadowing step and should not be done manually. Otherwise, some files might get missed.

After this, I too am at the end of ideas for you.

Doug,

Your post begs the question that I'm possibly doing the shadowing process incorrectly. I've tried it two ways:

1) as mentioned in prior posts, where I go into the database from the runtime (I've also tried from the developer edition), go to the control panel, go to tools > network optimize > create shadow database. This asks for a directory in which to place the files, upon which I've created a directory on the local root C: drive, and let it drop the files in. (I've also seen reference about not running network optimize anymore... but I don't think I am running a network optimize process, I am just clicking Create Shadow Database down at the bottom. So maybe I'm creating the shadow from the wrong place?) I then go to the directory on the local HD, open the .adb, and that's when the permission problem occurs. If I missed a step or went about the process from the wrong section, please let me know.

2) as Cheryl mentioned, I created a blank DB with no forms, etc. and created the single autoexec script from the A5 documentation. I saved this file with the same file name as the .adb on the server. Then, I ran this on the local machine from within the runtime. When the box popped up, I pointed it to the .adb on the server, and it ran its automated processes.

Have I completed the shadowing process correctly?

[Doug Page]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

From my knowledge it appears so. My experience does not include using Alpha's security so I am not aware of how to debug the problem.

[Ed Barley]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Thiazi,


Doug is correct about the security. But it still sounds like you are not making the shadow correctly.

You may have already done this correctly, but give it a try. If it fails, what step is it?


1. The development copy of the Database is in a folder on your 2003 server.
2. Go to one of the XP workstations, and open up a runtime from the Alpha Icon in the runtime folder. Not a shortcut.
3. After the runtime opens up, open up the Database from what ever you called the .ADB file in the database folder on the 2003 server.
4. After the database on the 2003 server is open in the XP workstation�s Alpha runtime(if you get this far) go to the control panel in the runtime.
5. Go to tools/network optimize/create shadow database. Just to test, let Alpha select where to place the shadow database.
6. After Alpha creates the shadow, it will close down and reopen looking at the new created shadow database. Open up the shadow at this point in time.
7. Make sure you are at the control panel, and use the shortcut genie on the tools menu.
Create the desktop Icon/Shortcut with the genie.

If you got this far, is it working correctly on this workstation?

Regards

Ed

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Ed, here's my steps documented:

- Full copy of database is on server at \\server\A5 DB

- Go to XP Workstation, open alpha5.exe from C:\Program Files\A5V7 Runtime

- Went to File > Open Database. Then, selected A5 DB.adb from the \\server\A5 DB folder.

- Authentication box appears (Alpha5 authentication). Input my credentials. Database loads.

- Go to Control Panel, select Tools > Network Optimize > Create Shadow Database.

- Get a box saying "Shadow Database Will Be Created". Let Alpha5 choose the path, which is C:\Program Files\A5V7 Runtime\shadow\A5 DB\A5 DB.adb. Click OK.

- Process runs, database closes, and then reopens. Authentication box appears (alpha5 authentication). I authenticate, I'm allowed into the database with no problem (keep in mind, I'm in the Administrators group in Alpha5.)

- Now that shadow is open, go back to Control Panel, go to Tools > Create Shortcut > On Desktop > Click OK.

- Close Alpha5 Runtime. Go to shortcut on desktop, double-click on it. Authentication box appears, I authenticate as _another user_, someone who is not in the administrators group, and am presented screenshot I posted a few posts up saying that permission had been denied.

NTFS permissions were checked on the server, and the particular user has full rights to the A5 folders. Also, my NT login is in the administrators group on the server as well, so I have full NTFS permissions regardless (which should give me the ability to login to the database as any user I would think.)

I'm sure there's something small I'm missing somewhere that's preventing this. :-\

[Ed Barley]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

What happens if you log on as "administrator" on this selected workstation?

If you can get into the database as the administrator, it is like Doug prompted you, it is the way you set up Alpha security.

If this is true(where you can log in as the Administrator", then you need to go back(with your development copy of Alpha) and check the way you setup security in your database.

How did you setup the security for users to log in, when they are not the Administrator?

Regards

Ed

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

It works in the same manner when I log in as administrator on the local PC. As far as how security is setup, users are defined in the Control Panel > Tools > Security > Define Users/Groups. There are several groups, and users separated into groups.

All users that are not in the Administrators group within Alpha5 cannot login (get the denied message.) Each form, etc. has security options which allow the particular groups to run/view/edit that form/query/etc. All permissions are set to Run, and none of that has been modified for the shadow. It seems like it's losing the "Run" permission when the shadow is made.

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Thiazi,

I think you're going to have to let someone else look at the database. Any chance you can post a working copy here (sanitized to remove personal data) so that we can load it on our system, network optimize it to a workstation and attempt to troubleshoot it for you?

An alternative would be for us to send you a database that can be network optimized without losing security controls and see if you can install it there?

[Doug Page]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

I have not used the Alpha Security but three things come to mind.

1. Did you check to use Windows Login info? If so, then I would guess that it is your NTFS permissions that are be wrong.

2. You said that you had the permissions set to Run. Could not decifer enough out of the user manual, but it sounds like this is just enough permission to allow one to "run" a form but not make any changes, additions, deletions, etc.

3. Because the Security system worked on the server, it makes me think that it is set up correctly. This again makes me think that it could be the machines permissions that are stopping you. So perhaps it might be worthwhile effort to check the permissions on the directories on the server and compare to the permissions on the local box.

[aschone]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

The error your are encountering has nothing to do with NTFS permissions. Your error indicates that the user who is logging into the database does not have permissions to run a form. But from my understanding of your posts, even the admin account is having problems when loading the database via a shadow copy.

Troubleshooting step #1
If this was me, I would remove the alpha5 security from the database. Then test the shadow copy. If everything works you have narrowed down the problem to the the security implementation.


Trouble shooting step #2

\\server\A5 DB
C:\Program Files\A5V7 Runtime\shadow\A5 DB\A5 DB.adb.

Both your mapped folder and your shadow database storage folder have spaces in them. Remove all spaces from the folders. While it is true a space in a folder path is accepted by windows, it does not mean all applications and other OS's can recognize that space. Having a space in a folder path is un-needed and can cause additional problems behind the scenes.

*edit -
Your database name also has a space in it, remove that space as well.
When I feel the urge to use a space I just use an underscore instead. i.e. a5_db.adb

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

The error your are encountering has nothing to do with NTFS permissions. Your error indicates that the user who is logging into the database does not have permissions to run a form. But from my understanding of your posts, even the admin account is having problems when loading the database via a shadow copy.

Troubleshooting step #1
If this was me, I would remove the alpha5 security from the database. Then test the shadow copy. If everything works you have narrowed down the problem to the the security implementation.


Trouble shooting step #2


Both your mapped folder and your shadow database storage folder have spaces in them. Remove all spaces from the folders. While it is true a space in a folder path is accepted by windows, it does not mean all applications and other OS's can recognize that space. Having a space in a folder path is un-needed and can cause additional problems behind the scenes.

*edit -
Your database name also has a space in it, remove that space as well.
When I feel the urge to use a space I just use an underscore instead. i.e. a5_db.adb

Just to mention, any admin account can login to the shadow copies without a problem. It's only user accounts that have this problem.

I will try yours and others suggestions tomorrow and post back. Thank you!!

[Thiazi]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

I have not used the Alpha Security but three things come to mind.

1. Did you check to use Windows Login info? If so, then I would guess that it is your NTFS permissions that are be wrong.

2. You said that you had the permissions set to Run. Could not decifer enough out of the user manual, but it sounds like this is just enough permission to allow one to "run" a form but not make any changes, additions, deletions, etc.

3. Because the Security system worked on the server, it makes me think that it is set up correctly. This again makes me think that it could be the machines permissions that are stopping you. So perhaps it might be worthwhile effort to check the permissions on the directories on the server and compare to the permissions on the local box.

1. Yes, I did check my Windows login information. I went back this morning and re-ran the entire process as the Administrator on the local machine, and using the Administrator account on the server when accessing the directory containing the DB.

2. Permissions are set to run on that form, so they should be able to bring it up, but not make any changes to the form at all. These permissions are set in the development copy, and do allow the users to run the form as designed when they access the .adb file from the server.

3. I re-created the shadow copy this morning logged in as Administrator on the local machine and ran into the same problem. :(

The error your are encountering has nothing to do with NTFS permissions. Your error indicates that the user who is logging into the database does not have permissions to run a form. But from my understanding of your posts, even the admin account is having problems when loading the database via a shadow copy.

Troubleshooting step #1
If this was me, I would remove the alpha5 security from the database. Then test the shadow copy. If everything works you have narrowed down the problem to the the security implementation.


Trouble shooting step #2


Both your mapped folder and your shadow database storage folder have spaces in them. Remove all spaces from the folders. While it is true a space in a folder path is accepted by windows, it does not mean all applications and other OS's can recognize that space. Having a space in a folder path is un-needed and can cause additional problems behind the scenes.

*edit -
Your database name also has a space in it, remove that space as well.
When I feel the urge to use a space I just use an underscore instead. i.e. a5_db.adb

I removed the spaces from all folders. I re-created the shadow copy, logged in as the Administrator account on the local machine, and placed it in the root directory of the HD in a new folder simply called DB. Before doing so, I renamed the DB to just DB.adb. I then opened DB.adb from C:\DB and the problem is still occurring. :(

Also, as I mentioned in the previous post, any account in the "Administrators" group in Alpha5's security groups screen can login to the shadow copies just fine (they've never had a problem logging in.) This problem only affects those users who are not Administrators as defined by Alpha5's built-in security.

[Cheryl Lemire]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Hi Thiazi,

May I suggest you follow Tom Cone's suggestion and attach the db zip here so we can attempt to create a shadow on our end and try to duplicate/resolve your issue for you :)

[aschone]

Re: Network Optimize changing permissions?

Hi Thiazi,

May I suggest you follow Tom Cone's suggestion and attach the db zip here so we can attempt to create a shadow on our end and try to duplicate/resolve your issue for you :)

Agreed


It appears that you have narrowed it down to an issue with how the administrator security is setup compared to how the user's security is setup. At this point I would document every setting that the administrator has. Document every setting that the user has. Then duplicate all of the administrator settings on to the user. If you are able to view the DB as the user, then your issue was with how the security was setup originally. If the user is still not able to view the database then something else is happening to cause this.