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Losing records VERY WORRYING

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  • #46
    Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

    Originally posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
    Do you feel that eliminates the danger associated with indexing and so forth? What is it about NAS resources that affects reliability and what can you do about it? I don't think IS is going to let me pop a PC on the network for everyone to access.
    I can't give you technical reasons why but I can also confirm that I had reliability issues using a NAS when I first put my app into production. Once I moved it to a server, all the issues disappeared.

    Do you have an existing server on your network? All you need is a shared directory on it that holds your data. You do not need a dedicated machine.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

      Any machine that can be accessed, even as peer to peer is usable. Using a nas may have problems with indexing.
      I have data on a peer to peer in many dealerships where the server is a Linux and unusable for alpha without other tools they don't want and in some cases there is also a shadow on the same machine.
      Maybe this is not ideal, but no data losses or index issues.
      Dave Mason
      dave@aldadesktop.com
      Skype is dave.mason46

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

        Just a though. Note that USB version 2 based NAS do not have CRC checking while all hard drives do. USB3 does have it. CRC check for integrity. it is not recommended that critical data be stored on USB v2 devices. A sata or sas/ide controllers have crc, but USB2 does not. It may be OK to loose a few bits if you play some songs but its a hole other thing with critical data. Also keeping sets structure simple is a good adage along with my favorite absolute adage -ALL significant applications (that includes supporting API) have bugs, multiple bugs.
        -

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        • #49
          Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

          ALL significant applications (that includes supporting API) have bugs, multiple bugs.
          -
          Noted and Agreed!!
          Dave Mason
          dave@aldadesktop.com
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

            I am experiencing the same problem with Alpha 10.5
            The description you have given is identical to what I have found.
            Did you ever get a solution?

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

              No, never did. What I do is what someone up above is doing. Rebuild those indexes every chance you get. I do it at night. Everyone has to be off or the files are open. Then, after I do that I do a backup. I just wrote a little script, made a batch file using xcopy..the DOS command. Also--and I don't know if this has anything to do with it--I save the record in the app every opportunity. So save when exiting a field and maybe do it again before they leave the app even if they don't do it.

              That said, I'm starting to think that it may indeed have something to do with the app and data not residing on a SERVER type of architecture. I don't know the gorey details of our network but it's big (huge) and maybe it's acting like NAS or something. I'd tell IS about it but a) they wouldn't listen to me and b) would bite my head off for not using SQL. I am an engineer and not in the IS department..so read between the lines.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                Here's a good one. I've even found records with the same record number! And others missing.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                  Unless you are running tons of users, you should not have problems like that. Sounds like connection issues. IT/IS should be able to help that if they will.

                  So much for my opinion.
                  Dave Mason
                  dave@aldadesktop.com
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                    Originally posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
                    Here's a good one. I've even found records with the same record number! And others missing.
                    Can you post a visual of that?
                    Al Buchholz
                    Bookwood Systems, LTD
                    Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                    Occam's Razor - KISS
                    Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                    Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                    When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                    "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                    Albert Einstein

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                    • #55
                      Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                      I, too still have the same issues. I cannot get a server put in due to IT constraints. I lose about 1 record every week sometimes a bit more. The records are there just with their linking field nulled so I can tell how many. I eventually will have to figure out how to put this app on the web which should take away all the issues.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                        For the client that had the problem, it was finally sorted when they switched everyone on thin client / virtual desktop. This way, all data processing is done one the server, there is no shadow, and in the 11 months since this was done they haven't lost a single record.
                        The database was on the server and all clients were shadowing the database on their computers; it seems like every now and then, the shadow would not update properly and we ended up with an empty record - a completely blank record in the parent table. It was not user error, I spent a lot of time building an audit trail only to find that users had nothing to do with it.
                        Because it was so random, my guess is that it's either a network issue, or a problem in the way Alpha updates the main database from a shadow.
                        My customer only has some 20 users and fairly light database traffic, so switching to thin clients made sense even though it was a desperation move.
                        It is easier to get older than wiser

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                          Marius,

                          Perhaps you'd be willing to start a new thread and explain the specifics of the thin client / virtual desktop setup you mention. I think a number of folks would be very interested to learn how its configured on the workstation, and especially on the "server". Thanks. -- tom

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                            Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
                            Marius,

                            Perhaps you'd be willing to start a new thread and explain the specifics of the thin client / virtual desktop setup you mention. I think a number of folks would be very interested to learn how its configured on the workstation, and especially on the "server". Thanks. -- tom
                            have a look here Tom http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...5&goto=newpost

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                              I, too still have the same issues. I cannot get a server put in due to IT constraints. I lose about 1 record every week sometimes a bit more. The records are there just with their linking field nulled so I can tell how many. I eventually will have to figure out how to put this app on the web which should take away all the issues.
                              Most of my installs are on lans with no real server. One windows machine is used "as" a server. I am not having the problems you are on any install. Other side is, if you are having these problems on a lan, why would you think a web app would be better? Especially if it is in the networking??
                              Dave Mason
                              dave@aldadesktop.com
                              Skype is dave.mason46

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Losing records VERY WORRYING

                                Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
                                Marius,

                                Perhaps you'd be willing to start a new thread and explain the specifics of the thin client / virtual desktop setup you mention. I think a number of folks would be very interested to learn how its configured on the workstation, and especially on the "server". Thanks. -- tom
                                Tom, I'm afraid I don't have much info about how to set this. It was done by my customer's IT guy. The server runs Win Server 2008, you set the Remote Desktop Services in the server roles, you can find how to do it if you google it. You need a fairly hefty server. For about 20 users they have, he installed 20GB of RAM and two fast HD's in RAID1.
                                Each user has their own virtual desktop instance that runs on the server - the client machine only displays the screen, all software runs on the server. You need to pay for a M$oft license for each user, so it's not cheap. The advantage is that no database data is sent over the network, all processing is done locally on the server; so the database runs a lot faster. Of course, my main problem was losing records, and that doesn't happen because even if you lose connection from the client computer, your virtual desktop and your instance of the A5 runtime is still running on the server.
                                It is easier to get older than wiser

                                Comment

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