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No more Install Maker?

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  • No more Install Maker?

    I understand that everyone is excited about the upcoming release of the new version, but until it IS released...

    I 'purchased' the only version available. I purchased it with all of the 'bells and whistles'. I was told that it would come with Wise Systems' (tm) Install Maker (tm) software at $100 under the retail price. (That's what my invoice said, anyway.)

    Now I receive an e-mail that tells me that the Alpha no longer sells the 'pro' version of the unlimited runtime package.

    Feeling that I MUST have just caught the tail end of something, I checked the order form on the Alpha web site and guess what? The Pro version is still listed and it still says that I can save a hundred dollars on Install Maker.

    There is a common industry term for this practice, but I will not use it here. Instead, I will simply ask whether or not I will receive the $100 difference on top of the price difference between the standard price and the professoional price? (This would make my price $299.00 rather than the $399 listed for the standard Unlimited Runtime version.)

    I left both e-mail and voice-mail messages with Carol A Graham in response to her e-mail last Friday, but she's been too busy to get back to me. Perhaps you will provide a more rapid response?

  • #2
    RE: No more Install Maker?


    Hi Kyle

    Your card was only charged $399 for the
    Unlimited Runtime and not $499 for the
    Runtime Pro Edition.

    Carol

    Comment


    • #3
      RE: No more Install Maker?

      We used to offer the Runtime pro for an additional $100. The only difference between the Runtime and Runtime Pro was that the Pro came bundled with Wise Install Maker.

      Since Wise got a new VP of Marketing, the declined to renew our contract with them giving us a substantial reseller discount on their product. As a result we could no longer get InstallMaker for any better price than is available from resellers.

      When I last looked you could get InstallMaker for about $149.

      So purchasing the regular runtime, and then purchasing Install Maker from a reseller gives you the equivalent of Runtime Pro for about $49 more.

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: No more Install Maker?

        Hello Carol,

        I said that I would not use the term in a public forum but your blatant disregard for honest business dealings lends me to do otherwise. The term "Bait and Switch" refers to advertising an exceptional deal on something and then substituting a product of lesser quality or value at the time of sale. This is EXACTLY what Alpha has done! It is an illegal practice in EBVERY State in the United States and is prosecuted by the U.S. Customs Agency on Interstate Commerce. To be blunt, Alpha Software is openly committing crimes, not torts, and may be punished by sanctions, fines, or other forms of punitive action. On top of this, Alpha Software is committing torts against persons.
        I've given you the option to say, "Oops! We made a mistake, but we'll make it right for you." Your response seems to have been, "Take it or leave it!" I can only HOPE that this is a misunderstanding and that Alpha Software will make every effort to correct the situation expediently. My initial request for the same $100 discount offered in your advertisment does not seem quite enough now. Now, you have pushed me to the point where I feel that I have been intentionally taken advantage of.
        If you have a legal department, run this e-mail and all other correspondence past them TODAY. Respond to me AFTER you have discussed this information with your legal department and THEN tell me what you are prepared to offer me in compensation for my time and inconvenience in addition to your misrepresentation of products available.

        Comment


        • #5
          RE: No more Install Maker?

          Selwyn,

          I understand that business dealings sometimes change. This is the nature of business. What Alpha Software seems either unwilling or unable to understand is that it is a crime to continue to offer a discounted product when you know it to be unavailable. I did not order my Alpha package through a third party vendor. I ordered it directly from this website. The very same page that I ordered from is still there! This is misrepresentation of goods avialable for sale and represents a clear cut case of "Bait and Switch." You are offering an incentive to buy. You do not have that incentive available for sale. That is a criminal act.
          The first step is to remove (or at least disable) the misleading advertisment/order form. The next step is to apologize. The final step is to offer compensation at least equal to the amount of the misrepresentation. This is the process required to turn a criminal act into an honest mistake.
          I am a practicing certified managerial accountant(CMA). I am also a certified public accountant (CPA), but prefer to keep the CPA credentials only in the event that I want to change my mind later in life. I deal with these kinds of liability issues as part of my profession. Your organization is WAY out on a limb here, and all that I am asking for is a fair solution. Carol Graham's 'solution' only aggravated me to the point where I now feel abused.
          All that I asked for was the same 'discount' offered when I agreed to make the purchase. Offering me a product of lesser value for less money is not the answer. Something has to give. I am, however, a reasonable man. You have a new patch or upgrade soon to be released. Why not at least make some sort of an offer toward that end?
          I have now offered you a way to prove that the events that have taken place are not intintional misrepresentation amounting to "Bait and Switch," and have done so in a manner that will not cost your organization a great deal of money. I feel that I am being more than reasonable here. I hope that your organization will be equally reasonable in return.

          Thank You

          Comment


          • #6
            RE: No more Install Maker?

            Abused?

            You may have a legal point, I don't know. But it's beyond me why you'd even want to use any Alpha products given the "abuse" you've received. Why don't you send back the whole kit and kaboodle for a full refund?

            Comment


            • #7
              RE: No more Install Maker?

              Pardon me for jumping in but it seems to me that you are over-reacting. When the order was received Alpha Software probably should have notified you that they could not fill it because of circumstances beyond their control. Instead, they apparently shipped what they could, at a reduced price, in hopes that that would be more useful to you. It's clear they guessed wrong, but I don't see anything wrong here, unless they now decline to refund your money when you ship it back.


              If you're angry and disappointed at the loss of the 'bargain' on Installmaker I understand that. Perhaps there's a breach of contract claim for the difference in what it would cost you to 'cover', but that doesn't come close to criminal misconduct. Given the small amounts involved, I suggest you probably have better things to do with your time than publish inaccurate and possibly libelous criminal charges.

              Comment


              • #8
                RE: No more Install Maker?

                Dear Mr. Sterner.

                I have contacted you via email this morning to resolve this.

                Alpha Software is very proud of its products and is very focused on its customers and their satisfaction.

                Sincerely
                Richard Rabins
                Alpha Software
                Richard Rabins
                Co Chairman
                Alpha Software

                Comment


                • #9
                  RE: No more Install Maker?

                  And Mr. Sterner, there's always that chance that their legal department could now sue you for Libel, now that you posted this in a public forum.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    RE: No more Install Maker?

                    Tom,

                    I am quite pleased to say that Alpha Software made things right with me. How they did it is between me and them.

                    As for what I wrote in the earlier post, it was quite accurate.

                    As for "libelous criminal charges," as you put it, it is quite clear that you are unaware of the difference between a tort and a crime.

                    If people do not stand against those who take advantage then they cannot call themselves participants in life; only mere bystanders or victims.

                    This is NOT to say that Alpha Software takes advantage; to the contrary. Alpha Software has shown itself to be an upstanding company that is not only willing to admit when it makes mistakes, but also to meet the needs of its customer base.

                    And as for sending Alpha back and requesting a refund, one does not return a Lamborghini because of a poor dealership or bad salesman and then turn around to buy a Toyota. I wanted my countach with Ricaro seats and Bose speakers, but I am not foolish enough to settle for less than a Countach just because I could not have all of the options that I wanted.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      RE: No more Install Maker?

                      Tom,

                      I will simply state the fact that the term "libel" depends on false statements. "http://www.dictionary.com" might help to clear this up for you.

                      More importantly, Alpha Software offered to make things right by me. Although throwing large sums of money my way would have made me happy, it would not have been fair. Instead, Alpha came up with a fair solution to a simple problem.

                      It is nice to know that there are still software companies out there that are willing to listen to their customers. This is the kind of thing that companies like Havas look for when they try to fill a partnership in a missing market niche.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RE: No more Install Maker?

                        Kyle,

                        It's my understanding Bait & Switch refers to a product advertised as XXX for $$ and the consumer recieves YYY instead for the same price. You ordered the Runtime Pro for $499. Alpha was not able to provide Runtime Pro so they sent you Runtime for $399. Their only mistake was apparently not telling you they could no longer sell InstallMaker to you for $100. That is NOT a crime! I repeat, That is NOT a crime! You didn't get less or a substitute for the same money ($499). You received the product for which you were charged, the same price the rest of us paid.

                        You would have been much more professional to have not posted your remarks. You are the one who owes the appology. And, before you jump down my throat (or Tom's) be aware that some of us know more about Bait & Switch than you do! There are a number of us who are professional criminal investigators and know Bait & Switch when we see it. Finally, you forgot one thing essential to proving a criminal case, INTENT. Knowing what I know about Selwyn and Carol, you'd never prove they purposely intended a Bait & Switch in a million years. You are very fortunate that Selwyn offered you what he did!

                        Do we hear an appology? Selwyn or Carol would not ask for an apology but they deserve one.

                        kenn
                        TYVM :) kenn

                        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          RE: No more Install Maker?

                          Kyle,

                          I posted this a 2nd time only because my 1st response is buried in this thread.

                          It's my understanding Bait & Switch refers to a product advertised as XXX for $$ and the consumer recieves YYY instead for the same price. You ordered the Runtime Pro for $499. Alpha was not able to provide Runtime Pro so they sent you Runtime for $399. Their only mistake was apparently not telling you they could no longer sell InstallMaker to you for $100. That is NOT a crime! I repeat, That is NOT a crime! You didn't get less or a substitute for the same money ($499). You received the product for which you were charged, the same price the rest of us paid.

                          You would have been much more professional to have not posted your remarks. You are the one who owes the appology. And, before you jump down my throat (or Tom's) be aware that some of us know more about Bait & Switch than you do! There are a number of us who are professional criminal investigators and know Bait & Switch when we see it. Finally, you forgot one thing essential to proving a criminal case, INTENT. Knowing what I know about Selwyn and Carol, you'd never prove they purposely intended a Bait & Switch in a million years. You are very fortunate that Selwyn offered you what he did!

                          Do we hear an appology? Selwyn or Carol would not ask for an apology but they deserve one.

                          kenn

                          TYVM :) kenn

                          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            RE: No more Install Maker?

                            Ken,

                            This will be my last post on this issue. As I have already written, Alpha Software has acted in a professional manner regarding the final resolution of this issue. I feel that they are an honorable company with human employees who are probably all overworked because of the upcoming release(s) of new software.

                            "Bait and Switch" is an illegal tactic in which a seller advertises a product with the intention of persuading customers to purchase a more expensive product or in which a seller advertises a discounted product to entice the customer to purchase even though the discounted product is not available. Various states and cities have minimum quota requirements for advertised products. In Burlington MA the required minimum units available for sale for a lawful advertisement is twenty-five (25) units*[Unless directly noted otherwise within the advertisement]. This is the quantity of product that must be kept on hand while any advertisement is being made. Disclaimers of limited quantities may be used to denote limited quantities available, but these disclaimers must be included directly in any active advertisement. If stock quantities fall below 25 units then rain checks must be issued upon request and product made available within ninety (90) days. If product is not made available within 90 days then a comparable product of equal or greater value must be offered at the same price.

                            The purpose of all of this is to prevent let's say for example an electronics store, from advertising a high-end Sony DVD player at a discounted price. Then, after the customer spends their time, money, and effort to go to the electronics store, there are no high-end DVD players available for sale and the customer is told that they can buy a standard Sony DVD player at the regular price. (The purpose of 'Bait & Switch' laws is nothing less than a form of consumer protection through legal means so that the victim need not hire an attorney in order to be treated fairly.)

                            As for your statement regarding the word 'Intent', dictionary.com's definition (law) is as follows: "The state of one's mind at the time one carries out an action." With this in mind, keeping the web page up and accepting orders even though the product was no longer available would legally qualify as intent. This is directed at a legal entity (company) and NOT at any specific individual within that legal entity.

                            Now, as for the character of any of the Alpha Software staff, all that I can base my opinions on is what I have dealt with personally. With this in mind, once the actual nature of the concern was addressed, Alpha came through in a reasonable, fair, and PROMPT manner. To me that shows GREAT character.

                            As for any apology on my part, my only regret is that I felt the need to address this issue in this public forum. I gave Carol three business days after sending both e-mail and voice-mail requests for resolution. I received no direct reply until posting in this base and no private reply until yesterday morning (Yesterday by now). To be quite honest, I did not expect the level of immediate effort that Alpha has put forth on this issue. Most software companies take much longer to reply and then there are forms upon forms to complete before anything is done. Once again, I am impressed with the prompt response and quality service offered by Alpha Software.

                            As for my character, when it comes to business dealings, I am the Controller for a very large heavy-manufacturing facility. It is my job to ferret out every nickel in possible savings that I can find. That is what I do while at work. That tendency often carries into my private life and I often find my lady-friend looking at me with contempt while I haggle with a salesman over the price of a washer and dryer or a new vacuum cleaner. (I had to spend many tedious hours learning all about accounting and accounting law so I figure that I'd might as well put that knowledge to use whenever possible.) This undoubtedly comes across as my being abrupt or harsh. All that I can offer is that people not take it personally; it is simply a part of who I am. The good news is that I believe strongly in the open source ideal and will be sharing a great deal of complex code in the appropriate message base on here once I get my feet under me with the new database software and Xbasic scripting [Within acceptable use policies, of course].

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              RE: No more Install Maker?

                              Kyle....

                              My hope is that you become very comfortable with the product
                              that you have purchased. Alpha Software has put together a
                              feature rich DBMS and has made it easy enough for non-programers
                              to use. I have no idea what your level of experience is with Alpha5,
                              but if you ever need help with a script, expression, or what ever....
                              I am afraid that I will have to avoid you like the plague. My concern
                              is that if I were to give you some information that didn't meet your
                              expectations, you might consider holding me responsible & send me a bill
                              or want compensation for any added time that I may have caused you in
                              developing your application! I can't speak for anyone else on this board....
                              I can only hope they feel the same.

                              We tend to "play nice" on this board, & although you changed your tune after
                              Alpha persuaded your worries, I personally think that your intent was to use
                              this forum to put additional pressure on Alpha Software. "Not Nice"

                              Good Luck

                              ~doug

                              Comment

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