Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

[ViCas]

I am doing some work for a client. They are using Version 1 of Alpha 5. Yeah, yeah, I know. They are looking to upgrade. I know the current Version is 11 but I can't jump from 1 to 11. We did try out Version 10. The database was converted from 1 to 10 by a consultant but it didn't work on the network. The network became extremely sluggish when the users used 10. We had to discontinue using it. The users love Version 1 because it gets their work done but the manager is concerned about the future. There were some cool modules in 10 that we could have used but it is unfortuante that it doesn't work well on the network. If anyone knows where we can purchase Version 2 or 3, I would certainly appreciate it. Thank you.

[Ted Giles]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

I think you will find that the major changes came about in V8, so anything up to 7 should work OK. 1-11 should not be more difficult than from 1-10 with the exception of the additional .net.
There are a number of problems leaping over the version divide, and these are well documented on the Forum, with a few recommendations as well.
Are you able to share a few details?
What did the consultant actually do? If the database has been converted and it works OK on a single workstation, then the issue is more likely the infrastructure and not Alpha.
Having said that, there have been a few grumbles regarding response over a network. Suggest you look at the posts on that subject Neil.

[ViCas]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Ted

Thank you for your reply. The consultant converted the database to Version 8. Most of this happened before I started doing consulting work for the client. Tried calling the consultant for help but we didn't get anywhere. We were told by the salespeople at Alpha that the database should work on 10 with minimum conversion. Hence we bought V10. That is when all the issues started. I have posted extensively about the issues we were having and received a lot of good responses. Unfortunately they didn't work. I know it is not the infrastructure because I tested the software on couple of networks with the same result. We also went through and changed a lot of items on the network - increased memory on the server (Windows 2003 R2), install the latest patches, ran the bare minimum services required for operation, put in a new switch and ran new cables, updated all workstations (Windows XP Professional with SP3), checked bandwidth and network usage, checked for memory leaks and so on. I spent a lot of time on these forums searching for answers and trying out various recommendations but nothing seemed to work. The client is running other applications which are working fine over tha network. At this point we are trying to inch our way up, version by version, if possible. As I mentioned, Version 1 is working fine and the users are happy (which is what matters the most) but the manager and I are concerned about the future.

Once again, Ted, thank you very much for responding.

Neil

[Ted Giles]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

More soppy questions I'm afraid, Neil. Converting is one thing, and no matter what anyone says, going from V1 to V8 is an enormous leap.

How complex is the application?
Is a rewrite out of the question?
Did the converted app ever work in V8 or was it never tried in anger?
Does it work quickly/well on a single workstation?

[DaveM]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

You should have almost no or very little change in speed from a single computer to a lan setup if it is done correctly.

There may be issues in the programming(code in froms, reports, etc) that could slow you down.

Are you using shadowed tables?

I still have v7, v10, v9 and v8. It seems(going on memory here) the proper progression was to move an app from 1-3 to v5, then on up to v8, then further.

[ViCas]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Thank you very much Ted and Dave.

Ted, the application is not very complex. The usual ordering and invoicing system. As I mentioned earlier, the consultant who worked on the conversion made it to Version 8. We do have a copy of the V8 database. I don't think it was ever used because the manager was tied down with other priorities and/or didn't have a copy of V8 software. I came into the scene after all this had happened. By the time I came in the Version was 10 and we decided to try it out. As far as working on a single computer, it does but there is still a slowness but it is workable. We did talk about rewriting but he is lukewarm to the idea. I offered to do it and he is wavering. This is where the whole conversation about the different versions came into the picture. His fear, which is justified, is what happens if the rewrite does not work properly. He is only interested in dealing with people who can be at the location physically and not in spirit. He is afraid that if it is someone who is in some other place they may walk away without completing the project or else will not provide help in the future.

Dave, we were using shadowed tables. You are right there should be difference when it goes from one computer to the LAN. I have worked with other databases and excepting for one another database (not Alpha) I never had a problem with workability. You are also right in stating the progression. That is what the people at Alphasoftware told us.

Wish I could explain more clearly. The more questions I am asked the more answers I can give.

Once again, thank you both very much for helping me.

Neil

[Ted Giles]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

So where is "local".
I've always developed in one of 2 ways
Prototyping for free to the point of acceptance, and if the client doesn't want it, the client doesn't have to pay. They do not get the product either.
To a detailed spec on either Fixed Price or T&M.
If it's as simple as you suggest, take it off line and let me have a butchers at the V8 version less any data.

[ViCas]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Ted

Local is Cincinnati, OHIO.

What you stated makes sense. Let me check with the manager and see if he wants to do it . I may even have him contact you.

Thanks for all that you are doing.

Neil

[Ted Giles]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Just a 18 hour commute then!

[DaveM]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

My suggestion is what I always do. I build/modify the application without stopping the old app. I then put it in place at the site and temporarily disable the old app. Of course, appending the old data to the new app in the process. Let the users have 2 weeks to get used to the new, then modify as necessary. I give 30 days generally for payment and if no payment = no sale, shut the new app down and revert them back to the old app making sure they have current data.

Data belongs to client, app belongs to me.

Ted could be exellent as your programmer.

[ViCas]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Hahahahaha, Ted, that is funny. :))))) Aren't you in U.K.? Just a hop, skip and jump across the pond and you are here.

Dave, I agree that is the way it should be. I can program too but I am not as much of an Alphaholic as you guys are. I have done extensive programming in Filemaker Pro. I have picked up a lot of Alpha database creation and working with it but I still need help froom people like you. What you suggested is what we did with V10 which turned out to be a disaster for us.

I feel that we have deviated from the initial question. If the manager doesn't want to take up Ted's suggestion, how do I get a copy of Version 2 or 3? We have a V8 (sounds like the vegetable juice) database which is about two years old. It needs some minor work. If I can get a copy of that software that would help too but I will need at least 15 licenses.

I will be talking with him on Friday and will let you know how it went and what the result is.

Neil

[Ted Giles]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

Neil, I really believe that going the V2 or V3 route is just putting off the inevitable.
These versions won't get you that much closer to your goal - if that goal is to use one of the latest Alpha offerings.
On the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" rule, apart from a fear of getting behind on the technology front, is there any reason not to stick with V1?
(I actually use a really old "Print Shop Deluxe" which only runs on XP for vilage news letters and posters, as I am used to it.)

The offer of a look at your V8 (empty) comes without strings. If I can see where the problem might lie, I'll let you know and you can have a go at fixing it your end and youwill owe me a beer.
If I cannot find any likey "stoppers", I'll dig deeper - at my own cost/risk and come up with some suggestions.

[DaveM]

Re: Looking for A5 Version 2 or 3.

I may be wrong, but v8 and up came with an unlimited runtime so the number of users is no real issue anymore. It may have been v9 and up???

In v7 and back it was different prices for different numbers of users.

Problem with v1 and up to v10 is the compatibility with newer versions of windows. While I can run v7 on a win 7 machine, some things would not work if I wanted/needed them( I think some of that is well documented in the threads here). I have thus been working to move all to v10.5 and maybe v11 when it is economically feasible.

While an in-house programmer is a wonderful thing for a company, it is very expensive. A really good programmer is going to be 70,000 a year or more plus the 56,000-65,000 a year for the place he would work including the typical expensives. They also would be paying for all development costs that a contract programmer normally supplies.