Alpha Software Mobile Development Tools:   Alpha Anywhere    |   Alpha TransForm subscribe to our YouTube Channel  Follow Us on LinkedIn  Follow Us on Twitter  Follow Us on Facebook

Announcement

Collapse

The Alpha Software Forum Participation Guidelines

The Alpha Software Forum is a free forum created for Alpha Software Developer Community to ask for help, exchange ideas, and share solutions. Alpha Software strives to create an environment where all members of the community can feel safe to participate. In order to ensure the Alpha Software Forum is a place where all feel welcome, forum participants are expected to behave as follows:
  • Be professional in your conduct
  • Be kind to others
  • Be constructive when giving feedback
  • Be open to new ideas and suggestions
  • Stay on topic


Be sure all comments and threads you post are respectful. Posts that contain any of the following content will be considered a violation of your agreement as a member of the Alpha Software Forum Community and will be moderated:
  • Spam.
  • Vulgar language.
  • Quotes from private conversations without permission, including pricing and other sales related discussions.
  • Personal attacks, insults, or subtle put-downs.
  • Harassment, bullying, threatening, mocking, shaming, or deriding anyone.
  • Sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, or otherwise discriminatory jokes and language.
  • Sexually explicit or violent material, links, or language.
  • Pirated, hacked, or copyright-infringing material.
  • Encouraging of others to engage in the above behaviors.


If a thread or post is found to contain any of the content outlined above, a moderator may choose to take one of the following actions:
  • Remove the Post or Thread - the content is removed from the forum.
  • Place the User in Moderation - all posts and new threads must be approved by a moderator before they are posted.
  • Temporarily Ban the User - user is banned from forum for a period of time.
  • Permanently Ban the User - user is permanently banned from the forum.


Moderators may also rename posts and threads if they are too generic or do not property reflect the content.

Moderators may move threads if they have been posted in the incorrect forum.

Threads/Posts questioning specific moderator decisions or actions (such as "why was a user banned?") are not allowed and will be removed.

The owners of Alpha Software Corporation (Forum Owner) reserve the right to remove, edit, move, or close any thread for any reason; or ban any forum member without notice, reason, or explanation.

Community members are encouraged to click the "Report Post" icon in the lower left of a given post if they feel the post is in violation of the rules. This will alert the Moderators to take a look.

Alpha Software Corporation may amend the guidelines from time to time and may also vary the procedures it sets out where appropriate in a particular case. Your agreement to comply with the guidelines will be deemed agreement to any changes to it.



Bonus TIPS for Successful Posting

Try a Search First
It is highly recommended that a Search be done on your topic before posting, as many questions have been answered in prior posts. As with any search engine, the shorter the search term, the more "hits" will be returned, but the more specific the search term is, the greater the relevance of those "hits". Searching for "table" might well return every message on the board while "tablesum" would greatly restrict the number of messages returned.

When you do post
First, make sure you are posting your question in the correct forum. For example, if you post an issue regarding Desktop applications on the Mobile & Browser Applications board , not only will your question not be seen by the appropriate audience, it may also be removed or relocated.

The more detail you provide about your problem or question, the more likely someone is to understand your request and be able to help. A sample database with a minimum of records (and its support files, zipped together) will make it much easier to diagnose issues with your application. Screen shots of error messages are especially helpful.

When explaining how to reproduce your problem, please be as detailed as possible. Describe every step, click-by-click and keypress-by-keypress. Otherwise when others try to duplicate your problem, they may do something slightly different and end up with different results.

A note about attachments
You may only attach one file to each message. Attachment file size is limited to 2MB. If you need to include several files, you may do so by zipping them into a single archive.

If you forgot to attach your files to your post, please do NOT create a new thread. Instead, reply to your original message and attach the file there.

When attaching screen shots, it is best to attach an image file (.BMP, .JPG, .GIF, .PNG, etc.) or a zip file of several images, as opposed to a Word document containing the screen shots. Because Word documents are prone to viruses, many message board users will not open your Word file, therefore limiting their ability to help you.

Similarly, if you are uploading a zipped archive, you should simply create a .ZIP file and not a self-extracting .EXE as many users will not run your EXE file.
See more
See less

Posting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Posting

    Hi all,

    I think that most posts are just fine in that they generally stick to the point, and with the persistance of many people here on the board, most problems have a solution given.

    ...which brings me to my point. When a post is made in which a solution is given that can either be taken away or sometimes even not completely given for whatever reasons via password protected examples, or script compiled into an AEX file, then I would just as soon not even have this post made.

    Regarding the Jing Videos....
    Most people will not see any of the Jing videos after the Jing test is over with unless the people who have been posting using Jing videos end up having accounts with Jing so that the videos will still be available.....and even the Alpha staff has used them (I only hope that they will or already have an account with Jing!).


    IOW, except for maybe when instances of a private viewing is beneficial in order to help one specific person, I do not believe that using Jing Videos here on the messageboard is really such a great idea.

    My two cents--just something I have been meaning to bring up for a while now.
    Mike
    __________________________________________
    It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
    Henry David Thoreau
    __________________________________________




  • #2
    Re: Posting

    Is this based on something specific that happened? Does your second paragraph mean like how a post starts out providing a solution, but the solution is or becomes unavailable for some reason; needs a password, or the attachments are deleted?

    My two cents is that the forum could be vastly improved with a little management. I can go in to that if others want to discuss it along with your thoughts.
    Steve Wood
    Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
    There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
    Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
    AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Posting

      Steve,
      I guess I mean that any post that has an example/sample given for a solution it should be just that. If it meeds a password then somewhere it should be given to all--why even post if it isn't? This has happened very rarely but of late, and mainly by one individual, it has started to become more prevalent and bothers me that noone seems to be frustrated by this.

      As a takeoff of this, but in very much the same light, are the Jing videos. The Jing Project is not a permanent place in which the examples given via Jing videos are going to be able to be seen when their testing ends...unless an account is set up by the person who made the video. So all of the videos presented via Jing will just be vacant links eventually I feel and of no use whatsoever to people who frequent this messageboard in search of answers.
      Mike
      __________________________________________
      It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
      It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
      Henry David Thoreau
      __________________________________________



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Posting

        So maybe we need some:

        - rules
        - better forum software with post management built in
        - cops, or forum moderators (Alpha used to step in more than they do now).
        - rules

        You said you are suprised no one is frustrated over this? Well I AM! And I know several top developers who have voiced similar. In my view the forum has degraded over the last year or so. I spend 95% of my time here answering other's questions; but its when I am in trouble and ask one of my own that I get really frustrated. Here is what I see overall:

        NOTE - this is my look at the negitive and ignoring for now all the wonderful aspects of this board, including the people who make it that way.
        1. Non-descriptive thread titles like "Help me!"; which I feel everyone should ignore.
        2. posts all over the place in the wrong topic area. (Possible solution - I think the topic areas should be changed to not reflect different versions of Alpha, but more like xbasic, desktop security, web security, and a place to just 'chat', etc.)
        3. posters adamantly explaining how to do something, the wrong way. (Possible solution -- the Help is a combination of V7-V9 and that’s where much of the outdated information comes from.)
        4. the poor person asking the question in the first place has to wade through responses that are not even about their question (Possible solution – rules of conduct)
        5. related to above, almost every original post gets superseded by a new question which takes off and leaves the original poster on their own. Mine recently.
        6. no management of the process at all. There are really well managed systems where someone keeps it all in line, helped by the forum software itself. When the poster feels satisfied, the thread is normally closed. (Possible solution - different forum software and volunteer moderators)
        7. the same questions are asked over and over – (Possible solution -- a knowledgebase companion to the forum where only the synthesized solution is detailed, plus a topical index. Also, and not sure who would judge, but a method to rank the users knowledge in the area they are commenting).
        8. few responses include the actual testing required to prove/disprove the solution. Now, I do believe its up to the person asking the question to test out solutions, but it is very unhelpful when someone says "here, this should work" and causes the poster to waste hours because the solution provider did not have a clue, but acted like they did.
        9. Now, where is Ira's recent post about all of this?
        Steve Wood
        Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
        There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
        Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
        AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Posting

          Steve,
          You sound like a good candidate for one of those volunteers!
          Robin

          Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Posting

            It would need to start with management from Alpha and consensus from the members. Also, if I wanted to go through all that work I would just start my own message board/knowledgebase and charge admission.
            Steve Wood
            Join the ALPHA DEVELOPERS NETWORK
            There is no Cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
            Web - Mobile - Hosting - Products - Frameworks - Developer Resources
            AlphaToGo | IADN (100% Alpha Anywhere Websites)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Posting

              Wow Steve!! Did I hit a similar button on you or what!! :D Many of the problems you spoke of I agree with and realize that they are to be taken as constructive criticism of the board and also not as complete statements without having exceptions. Just to add to what you have iterated, to give my own thoughts or to expand a bit on the ideas or topics you mentioned, I'll answer by number.

              First and foremost!! For me this messageboard is used to learn. It's nice to have the camaraderie of fellow programmers and I do appreciate the informal aspect as well, but without the ability to use the board to find solutions it would make it difficult for me to justify remaining a part of it.

              1...Non-descriptive thread titles like "Help me!"; which I feel everyone should ignore.
              These are generally the last threads I look at. I don't know if the search of the messageboard is affected by the thread title so in regard to this it makes no difference to me.

              2...posts all over the place in the wrong topic area. (Possible solution - I think the topic areas should be changed to not reflect different versions of Alpha, but more like xbasic, desktop security, web security, and a place to just 'chat', etc.)
              Here is where it becomes difficult. The idea behind having the delineations based on Alpha version seems to me to be one of having not only similarly versed users in the same forum but also, and much more importantly, to keep the solutions based on version number...without which it becomes something like the code archives in which very few mention what version the code/script was written in so without either trying it or directly asking the author who's to know? I think in this case that should be a requirement to even add to that particular forum.

              But I do agree that having other forums devoted to specific topics such as xdialog, web apps, networking, etc., would enhance the messageboard.

              3...posters adamantly explaining how to do something, the wrong way. (Possible solution -- the Help is a combination of V7-V9 and thats where much of the outdated information comes from.)
              Not much we can do in regards to the help file unless Alpha hires someone to attempt this immense task....maybe someone here on the board??? :) But Alpha seems to skirt this issue most of the time maybe due to the same issues we are aware of----how to fix the help files and who would be willing to do it....but something for sure HAS to be done and soon as it seems to be getting worse daily!

              4...the poor person asking the question in the first place has to wade through responses that are not even about their question (Possible solution rules of conduct)
              5...related to above, almost every original post gets superseded by a new question which takes off and leaves the original poster on their own. Mine recently.
              Threads do seem to wander at times, but I think overall someone usually brings them back to the original question. I find that many times much more is learned in these types of threads, but do agree that unless the "other" question is related to the first it should be asked in a completely different thread. But maybe the best way for this to be is for users to wait until the originator of a thread has the solution and only then pose the related question.

              6...no management of the process at all. There are really well managed systems where someone keeps it all in line, helped by the forum software itself. When the poster feels satisfied, the thread is normally closed. (Possible solution - different forum software and volunteer moderators)
              I agree in that moderators of some kind are needed--a thread a while back that I, and believe you too, took part in discussed this a bit but nothing came of it.

              7...the same questions are asked over and over (Possible solution -- a knowledgebase companion to the forum where only the synthesized solution is detailed, plus a topical index. Also, and not sure who would judge, but a method to rank the users knowledge in the area they are commenting).
              Bothersome to say the least! But honestly the only way to prevent this would be to somehow make a user search first prior to posting...wish this could be done but am doubtful. Instead of ranking the user which I can see as sometimes negating the correct answer if given by a novice in some people's minds, I would rather see a way in which to have "moderators" rate a thread as to its validity, combine threads, or even maybe synopsize threads into a solution thread that could even possibly become another forum category. We have to be able to bring the solutions to problems to the front instead of having to search, at times, hundreds of threads to find the definitive or multiple solution. I know...this would be as daunting a task as organizing the help files, but if nothing is done then it simply becomes harder and harder to sift through everything to find what is wanted.

              Some have wanted a Newbie forum---and agree completely as this would eliminate many of the repeat questions especially if the Newbie forum had some stickies or at least a FAQ at the top in which more experienced or moderators could place the solutions to the most asked questions.

              8...few responses include the actual testing required to prove/disprove the solution. Now, I do believe its up to the person asking the question to test out solutions, but it is very unhelpful when someone says "here, this should work" and causes the poster to waste hours because the solution provider did not have a clue, but acted like they did.
              This would be a bit too subjective I think to be able to moderate even, much less enforce at any level....unless it is done multiple times by the same person as we have both seen happen. Sometimes answers such as these are deliberate and meant to make the user work at obtaining the solution in order to help the person learn...nothing wrong with doing this, I feel, as it will benefit not only that person overall, but also free up more of the "answer givers" time enabling more solutions given. It could even be just that the person offering the truncated solution does not have all the time necessary to give a full blown answer...most times others will pick it up and deliver more if it actually is needed by someone. For those solution providers who give erroneous answers....well, I would hate to have all (or any really) of these stop trying because of that. Many solutions have been obtained via educated guesses when the solution was not actually known absolutely.

              =========================================

              Now....many of my thoughts are known. And I see no need to keep ranting about this as enough has been said by me...sooo.....

              Unless MANY others chime in and agree, disagree, have other ideas, whatever, this thread and possibly the chance to change things will get buried once again--the only way to get this changed is if there is enough interest to do it....why would Alpha listen to just a few members who think something needs to be changed. They wouldn't and I would not expect them to--a seeming majority is what is needed---many reads but moreso, many responses is the only way I think something will be done regarding this.



              Note--actually this thread was mainly intended to be one to try to make users stop using solutions/examples such as the Jing project which are not necessarily a permanent feature to be used by others later on.
              Mike
              __________________________________________
              It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
              It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
              Henry David Thoreau
              __________________________________________



              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Posting

                I have noticed that there are a lot of new users here recently with various levels of expertise. There is so much to learn just about how to use A5; that a newbie forum seems mandatory. There is not even any instructions in how to do a search in the forum. So perhaps a Category list at least ought to be employed to tag a post, then the user can make his own topic. Too much good stuff is in here that is way too hard to find. Then the option to submit a request for a new category could be made if the mod agreed. Just some thoughts.
                Robin

                Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Posting

                  In 1985 I had an idea and started my own business, the first of its kind in the nation and was very successful. Over the years I had many competitors come and go especially in my hometown of Minneapolis and St. Paul. Many “copy-cats.” Why was I successful? Because I knew how to keep customers coming back. How? Great communication and action. For most businesses, 90% is from repeat customers. Last year I was able to sell it and retire still pretty young.

                  I had (not limited to):
                  1) An on-line customer complaint system that I answered several times daily, made corrections when necessary
                  2) On-line question and answer system updated often due to customer input
                  3) On-line questionnaire where I gave customers a small credit when answered
                  4) If there was a problem, I worked until it was corrected
                  5) Followed-through with customer suggestions whenever possible
                  6) More but not applicable here

                  What can Alpha do to keep customers coming back?
                  Note: I'm basically repeating here what I've seen in other posts...
                  1) Update the on-line help system. I believe this is one of the most important “to-do” items that should be on their list. If the help were efficient with good (and many) examples, it would appear “easy” ier to the newbie, keep the newbie involved with his/her project and complete the project. Not only would a good help file give Alpha customers confidence, it would keep them coming back and purchasing future upgrades. This is where customers should depend on to get the answers, not the forum.
                  2) Stability: Fix some of the areas that could be fixed. A5w pages are an example. Don’t know how many times I’ve crashed in this area. Those pesky additional lines toward the bottom.
                  3) Genies: More and easier to find.
                  4) Videos: Examples. These were a BIG help for me when I first started. Notice the number of videos available for V9?
                  5) Forum: Mike and Steve have already explained this one in great detail. But to add a little, I should not have to depend on the forum to answer so many of my questions…on-line help. These are people who basically volunteer their time to help others. When I find an answer (that works for me), I usually post it knowing the frustration of obtaining the answer hoping it will help someone else in the future.
                  6) Newbie “To-do” list with examples. What are the basics of starting a project. What typical dialogs, components and a5w pages might be required. This would have helped me a great deal.

                  I’m speaking from a newbie perspective. When I began my project, I didn’t know anything about xbasic (and still have a long way to go) let alone the other parts of creating a working semi-complicated project. I can’t count how many times I’ve considered quitting because I could not find the answer to something. I dug for the answers until I saw double and then kept digging. I’ve read every post in the V8 section (many several times) and most in the other sections. I'm more burnt out now than I ever was with my company.

                  I really hope Alpha sees this post as constructive criticism (not bashing) and begins to make immediate improvements so that current (and future) newbies can efficiently learn and come back for more. Alpha is a great success story but I do think I see some revolting in the ranks and that is unsettling. I forgot how the old adage goes but I do know that one complainer represents several semi-satisfied or non-satisfied customers. I want to see Alpha continue. They do have great products, one that is enabling me to do something I otherwise could not do.

                  Sorry if I went on a tangent here but wanted to add my two cents…
                  Last edited by EricN; 04-19-2008, 12:57 PM.
                  Eric

                  Alpha Five Websites
                  longlivepuppies.com
                  socialservicenetwork.com
                  -------------------------------------------------
                  socialservicenetwork.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Posting

                    Hi Eric,
                    Regarding the help file...
                    This is where customers should depend on to get the answers, not the forum.
                    I agree but in a limited way. The help files can only go so far for a couple of reasons. One, even if the help files had a ton of examples (I wish!!!!!!!), most likely not everything can be covered for all scenarios and the problem still is getting to these examples---that is, a user first has to know what functions and such to use to even find said examples. Second, and in line with the first, is that with several of the points Steve and I (and many others in other threads) have made, the messageboard could become much easier to find the solutions wanted and also have the tremendous benefit of "live" discussion in regard to particular solutions and help for ones that don't quite fit the bill. Even now, especially from a newbie's point of view, having the resource of other users helping find a solution is a fantastic resource and one that other database forums seem to try to do but end up in, I believe, a much more limited way.

                    IOW, if I had to have relied on the help files, no matter how well written, there is no way I could have advanced to the level I am at today in such a short period of time without the messageboard and all the contributing members who selflessly give aid. (I would just as soon get rid of the help files than this messageboard!!)

                    When I find an answer (that works for me), I usually post it knowing the frustration of obtaining the answer hoping it will help someone else in the future.
                    What you have been doing is great in my opinion for everyone that will be eventually using the Web part of Alpha---it is these solutions and examples given that I will be using to learn it! So keep them coming!!! :)


                    Eric, Sort of a side note: I think you are coming from a very different perspective than most in that you are almost strictly creating on the "Web Side" and this is a relatively new part of Alpha (only a few years now). There are not that many users who frequent the messageboard who are using the Web and so not only are there less threads to search for answers, but less users to help in solutions. This makes it tougher for people to learn and in this case I completely agree that the help files should be brought up to speed for the Web if for nothing else.
                    Mike
                    __________________________________________
                    It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                    Henry David Thoreau
                    __________________________________________



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Posting

                      Mike/Steve

                      Being an on again. off again/ on again user of Alpha, I have trolling the board for years and try to help out when I can, as well as soak up a LOT of great info, especially from guys like you. There are Many people who contribute on a daily basis and others who used to that seem to have disappeared from the "regular" crowd. This could be for a lot of reasons, busy, frustrated with many points you have brought out, tired of getting into arguments, etc.

                      I agree that this could be and should be a learning place. And for the most part it is. There really is no room for oneupmanship as we have all seen. I totally agree with Mike about the showing of examples without showing the how. What is the point of knowing that it CAN be done, without knowing HOW to do it. I really don't understand why someone (same person Mike was referring to) goes through the trouble of putting an example together and then does not share how he did it. It boggles my mind. Many times I end up reading ramblings of people who, although I am sure their intentions are good, never offer any worthwhile solid answers. (I really do think they believe they are supplying answers) Before I start turning into a rambling idiot, my point is with better moderation/rules/ software, this could be a great place. Steve, you mentioned that you would charge for a properly run board. I for one would pay for that. I would love to weed out people who are seriously interested in learing and findng solutions from the people who buy alpha and want, not want, but feel entitled to have people jump at writing code for them.It is nice and would be great at having Alpha's involvment on the board, even though it is limitied at times, (Selwyn's presence as of late has been great) . The question is how do we move forward to make this board (or a new one) a better place to be? Having people who are new to alpha are essential. Just having a board that catered to more experienced people would kind of defeat the purpose, but there could be sections for the more seasones veterans to exchange ideas/solutions) I really think the turning this into a better managed board is the answer before starting a new board.

                      Bill
                      Bill Griffin
                      Parkell, Inc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Posting

                        Originally posted by Bill Griffin View Post
                        I would love to weed out people who are seriously interested in learing and findng solutions from the people who buy alpha and want, not want, but feel entitled to have people jump at writing code for them.
                        Judicious use of the ignore list can improve your outlook. Access is through your user profile link.
                        There can be only one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Posting

                          Thanks Stan, will do.
                          Bill Griffin
                          Parkell, Inc

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Posting

                            Like Hillary, I misspoke. Ignoring is done by viewing their public profile and using the indicated link. Just click on their name at the left of a post just below the date and time of the post.

                            Feel free to ignore me if it suits you. Each to their own. I imagine that's why the feature is there.
                            Last edited by Stan Mathews; 04-25-2008, 03:28 PM. Reason: footnote
                            There can be only one.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X