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Embedded browse problem

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    #31
    Re: Embedded browse problem

    Robert, your requirements are unfamiliar to me. My customers would find your approach confusing because of your use of composite records, instead of physical table records. So, I'll sign off from this thread wishing you all the best with your project. Regards, -- tom

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Embedded browse problem

      Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
      Robert, your requirements are unfamiliar to me. My customers would find your approach confusing because of your use of composite records, instead of physical table records. So, I'll sign off from this thread wishing you all the best with your project. Regards, -- tom
      Thanks Tom.

      Your response has got me thinking about what actually may be going on here, particularly with the browse "Parent Only Record" setting and it's implications. (I'm sure most would find this approach confusing.) But it's what I need to do with the data at hand. The examples may also serve to document the strange behavior others have experienced with the browse. ~ One thing for certain. "Multi-Level" (composite) data sets can and do become confusing. I thought it was just me!

      One way or another, I will get to the bottom of this. It may be a bug, or maybe a "misuse" of the browse setting.....
      (If it is a "misuse", I'm sure getting some "lucky results.")

      PS: I believe I may have resolved the "phantom data" display issues reported by the OP. (Explained in next post.)
      Last edited by SNusa; 01-19-2013, 11:16 PM.
      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Embedded browse problem

        Originally posted by Farzadalpa View Post
        Hello all
        I have an embedded browse on a form. The browse has data from child records of a set (including data from 1 to 1 related tables to child).
        During data entry, when I change some fields on the browse (not link fields) some other fields change to the wrong values. Sometimes just scrolling or moving through the rows the field values change. I have recreated the tables and the from many times to eliminate the chances of corrupted table or form. I am new to Alpha .I switched to alpha after many years of using Paradox .I can’t figure this Problem out .I have spend days trying to slow this puzzle .I appreciate any help I can get

        Thanks.
        NOTE TO OP OF THIS THREAD:
        I believe I may have resolved your "phantom data" value changing "display" issues within an embedded "stand-alone" browse. I was encountering the same "odd behavior." (Incidentally: Before finding the solution/fix, these issues only presented themselves after I added a "Grand Total" calculated field to the browse.) ~ Ironically, the totals always seemed to calculate properly regardless of the field data "floating"......

        The solution that worked for me is: Avoid using a "Grand Total" calculated field to sum the values for embedded browses. If you're not calculating the "top level" grand total on a form.... When you create the embedded browse (stand-alone browse), include a table "one level up" in the set than you need. Then you won't have to use "Grand Total." (You can select a different total to group on under advanced settings while using the wizard.)

        ~For some strange reason, Grand Totals do not always calculate properly. ~ In the instances I have seen this, the browse's "Parent Only Record" setting is unchecked. Now if I can only resolve the "browse scrolling issue" I have encountered.....
        Last edited by SNusa; 01-20-2013, 01:47 AM.
        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Embedded browse problem

          Robert,

          Here's a screencast illustrating how I'd approach your scenario. Its offered to give you another approach should you choose to use it.

          -- tom

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Embedded browse problem

            Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
            Robert,

            Here's a screencast illustrating how I'd approach your scenario. Its offered to give you another approach should you choose to use it.

            -- tom
            Awesome... I'll take a look, & thank you!
            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Embedded browse problem

              Originally posted by Tom Cone Jr View Post
              Robert,

              Here's a screencast illustrating how I'd approach your scenario. Its offered to give you another approach should you choose to use it.

              -- tom
              Hi Tom, and thanks. ~ I had actually contemplated doing it that way, but then began thinking I should be able to get (and present) this data directly without coding the loop. (I'm probably going to have to code a loop like that anyways once this goes to the web to batch process totals nightly.) ~ As I doubt it's efficient to do this "on the fly" within a web server environment... Particularly once the data grows... (Although, as long as I set the sorting properly on the indexed tables & code an efficient summing function, there should not be much looping going on for each inquiry.)

              One quick question regarding implementation of your function: Am I correct in assuming you are using the forms "onFetch" event to call the function & update the field?
              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Embedded browse problem

                Robert,

                I too see some of the odd behaviour in the browse. I will agree with Tom though in that mixing browses showing composite records in to a form that is also trying to display the same records in its own different scheme is looking for problems. Whether this should work is one question. But whether you would want this to work is another. On the one hand the browse is displaying composite records and on the other hand the form is trying to display the same records in a hierarchecal manner. There may very well still be issues with the browse engine in Alpha but I do all I can to avoid running into those issues or hiting those limitations. (a bit like when I went to the doctor about my sore head, He asked, "when does it hurt?", I replied, 'when ever I hit it against the wall.', His advice was to stop hitting my head against the wall. )

                I also get what you are trying to do with the data. I have needed to do something similar. One way is to Denormalise the data (as Al Buchholz has in his by line - Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.) (Oh, and denormalised data is not the same as non normalised data :-)) I think if you were to use a compound key (using the masterkey and keyfob fileds from the keyfob table to link to the points table) then that 'denormalisation' may just happen automatically.

                I have put together an example that I think does what you want but uses some of Alpha's later features: browses in xdialogs, embedded xdialogs and mapped tables.
                It may seem like a complicated way of doing it but it keeps the data that is being viewed in its seperate compartments and performance seems pretty good. Once you get the hang of using these features it opens up lots of possibilities of combining unrelated info in one display area.

                Below is the notes on the form from my example.
                This form is based on the Customer table alone.

                The browse is in an embedded xdialog so it is unbound. The browse is based on a mapped table called m_pnts_kfb. The mapped table links the keyfob table to the points table. This gives access to the masterkey field from the keyfob table for each record of the points table. Now we are able to use this masterkey value to filter the browse. The filtering occurs through a watch event in the embedded dialog watching a variable. This variable is updated when fetching a record in the main form through the binding property of the embedded xdialog.


                The Grand Total is being calculated at the browse level using a standard form/browse level calculation. Then this value is being accessed by the xdialog using a bit of an obscure but effective method. See line 67 in the points_browse script.
                Added is a table m_pnts_kfb, a form cust_points, and script points_browse. The stand alone browse, points, was just used to create the code for the embedded xdialog.

                I see Tom has jumped back in while I was playing with this. Just couldn't help yourself could you Tom.
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Tim Kiebert; 01-20-2013, 04:17 PM. Reason: Clean up some data
                Tim Kiebert
                Eagle Creek Citrus
                A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Embedded browse problem

                  Thanks Tim.

                  I'll take a look at your solution tomorrow.

                  PS: I did figure out the cause of the "floating phantom values" within the embedded browses. It occurs when you generate a calculated field to display "Grand Totals." (The other totals did not cause any problems that I am aware of.) I use calculated fields sparingly. And in this instance it made sense because the form is opened up "pre-filtered." (The "Grand Total" is actually on a small set of all the records in the table.) ~ For what it's worth, this "Grand Total Calculated Field Bug" is a reproducible issue, and others have posted on this site with the "phantom browse fields" changing.
                  Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                  It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                  RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Embedded browse problem

                    Originally posted by Tim Kiebert View Post
                    Robert,

                    I too see some of the odd behaviour in the browse. I will agree with Tom though in that mixing browses showing composite records in to a form that is also trying to display the same records in its own different scheme is looking for problems. Whether this should work is one question. But whether you would want this to work is another. On the one hand the browse is displaying composite records and on the other hand the form is trying to display the same records in a hierarchecal manner. There may very well still be issues with the browse engine in Alpha but I do all I can to avoid running into those issues or hiting those limitations. (a bit like when I went to the doctor about my sore head, He asked, "when does it hurt?", I replied, 'when ever I hit it against the wall.', His advice was to stop hitting my head against the wall. )
                    Just a quick note on your reply. In the example I provided, I was using a "dummy set" (with no data) for the main form, which opened a form containing actual data. (So in my examples, I was not "mixing browses showing composite records in to a form that is also trying to display the same records in its own different scheme" (But even so, the browse display problem was still an issue.)

                    I have to catch some ZZzzzz's....... Goodnight everyone!
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Embedded browse problem

                      Robert, here's my example. Unzip to a new (empty) folder.

                      (Attachment deleted per Roberts' request)

                      -- tom
                      Last edited by Tom Cone Jr; 01-20-2013, 11:00 PM.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Embedded browse problem

                        Originally posted by Tim Kiebert View Post
                        Robert,

                        I too see some of the odd behaviour in the browse. I will agree with Tom though in that mixing browses showing composite records in to a form that is also trying to display the same records in its own different scheme is looking for problems. Whether this should work is one question. But whether you would want this to work is another. On the one hand the browse is displaying composite records and on the other hand the form is trying to display the same records in a hierarchecal manner. There may very well still be issues with the browse engine in Alpha but I do all I can to avoid running into those issues or hiting those limitations. (a bit like when I went to the doctor about my sore head, He asked, "when does it hurt?", I replied, 'when ever I hit it against the wall.', His advice was to stop hitting my head against the wall. )

                        I also get what you are trying to do with the data. I have needed to do something similar. One way is to Denormalise the data (as Al Buchholz has in his by line - Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.) (Oh, and denormalised data is not the same as non normalised data :-)) I think if you were to use a compound key (using the masterkey and keyfob fileds from the keyfob table to link to the points table) then that 'denormalisation' may just happen automatically.

                        I have put together an example that I think does what you want but uses some of Alpha's later features: browses in xdialogs, embedded xdialogs and mapped tables.
                        It may seem like a complicated way of doing it but it keeps the data that is being viewed in its seperate compartments and performance seems pretty good. Once you get the hang of using these features it opens up lots of possibilities of combining unrelated info in one display area.

                        Below is the notes on the form from my example.


                        Added is a table m_pnts_kfb, a form cust_points, and script points_browse. The stand alone browse, points, was just used to create the code for the embedded xdialog.

                        I see Tom has jumped back in while I was playing with this. Just couldn't help yourself could you Tom.
                        Wow Tim: Your approach to solving my problems is "over the top." ~ (As for your solution, I have decipher the Xdialog solution which combines all points fobs for each customer into one "unbound browse.") ~ At present, anything I do with Xdialog is mostly wizard driven. I presume this exemplifies the advantages of "mastering Xdialog?"
                        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Embedded browse problem

                          Thanks everyone for your examples & contribution.

                          ~As for Tim's solution: I don't know where to begin. I can code X-basic, but not X-dialog. (The combined data in one browse was fantastic.)

                          To figure out exactly how you did this will take me some time. ~ (I sure would like to hear that: What you did with X-dialog was "wizard driven.") In there interim, is there any chance you could shed some light on this:

                          Originally posted by Tim Kiebert View Post
                          I think if you were to use a compound key (using the masterkey and keyfob fileds from the keyfob table to link to the points table) then that 'denormalisation' may just happen automatically.
                          ~I'm assuming your suggesting I use an index comprised of multiple field values. But beyond this, I'm confused.

                          Note: It may be worth noting that the data in the "Points" table comes from exporting data from a POS system. This POS data is presently being imported (appended) to the "Points table" via an excel import. ~ Thus, until a customer creates an account, each keyfob is "un-attached" to a customer. (The import routine does however generate an entry in the keyfob table if it does not already exist. When this happens, bot the keyfob field and the masterkey field are initially assigned the value of the keyfob.)

                          UPDATE: Figured it out....
                          Last edited by SNusa; 01-21-2013, 03:19 AM.
                          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Embedded browse problem

                            @Tim: ~ I have two "concept" questions regarding your solution... (I am intrigued!)
                            1. Any reason your solution which implements the mapped table to connect masterkey to keyfob ( via points.tbl -> keyfob.tbl) needs to use an Xdialog box for display? (Couldn't I do this with a browse object instead?)
                            2. What would happen if I tried to create this "inverted "1 to first" connection between points.tbl & keyfob.tbl using a standard set instead of a mapped table? (Why did you choose to do this with a mapped table?)


                            Never mind..... I get it. (for the most part)

                            ~You can't embed a browse on the form due to table/set constraints. (the entire point of using the set.)
                            ~And while I can't do native X-dialog, I am able to create (almost) the same results using a "Record List List box."
                            (I still have to figure out how to get a sortable list from the mapped table though)

                            I've got to figure out the specific changes you added to the browse generated Xdialog. ~ Other than that, I can follow what you did.

                            PS: Two more a5 bugs....
                            1. You can't successfully perform a "Query By Form" (a5 menu) on a text field that begins with an asterisk. (you get 0 results back - my example database above is proof of this.)
                            2. If you rename a "Mapped Table" field. Don't use the hyphen key. (Very strange, but it makes the "Record List List Box" not filter properly. Using the underscore instead works fine though. (Also, the preview does not always work. Sometimes you think you have a problem, but running the form gets the results you want.)
                            Last edited by SNusa; 01-21-2013, 03:18 AM.
                            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                            Comment

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