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Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

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    #16
    Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

    Over the past couple of months, I have spent some time evaluating the free to inexpensive web software packages. Some of these are database ready, some are extremely feature rich, some are very easy to use. All the ones I have hit with database have ajax. Most all have css, js, php, cgi, perl, and on and on.... Some use no programming.

    I think I have a pretty good handle on what is out there, even though I have only hit on a small percentage of the programs.

    One thing I know. I have web sites on line now. They are all on unix servers and cost from 36.oo a year to 78.00 a year. They all have mysql, php, and about anything else i will ever want.

    What is the answer? I do not know all. I know I prefer Alpha for desktop.

    Added:
    Look at avanquest and serif as inexpensive for just a web site. Some neat stuff. 1st page 2006 is great, but not wysiwyg.
    Dave Mason
    [email protected]
    Skype is dave.mason46

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

      I'm with you on the DT side Dave.

      Tried Serif and didn't get on with it really, and more than 5 pages incurs a fee.

      I have been using KompoZer - which is totally free, wysisyg and very user friendly.
      See our Hybrid Option here;
      https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


      Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
      You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

        I am reading and paying attention to all these comments and they certainly helpful.

        The one comment that I would like to reply to is Dave M's comment in which he states "There are other products out there and a ton more coming that could be a lot less for a lot more."

        Based on endless feedback from customers - Alpha's real advantage and strength is now in terms of building web apps.

        For example this real world medical app was built in 1/5th of the time/cost compared to quotes that the client received from other vendors

        Health Care App Built in Alpha Five v11. Please do not Share.

        Login, account list and dashboards http://www.screencast.com/t/d0p0TbH7epiq
        Work Queues / Queries http://www.screencast.com/t/ke3uhSd7C
        Account Management up to field visit http://www.screencast.com/t/dNDyapSAlgx
        Account Management up to linked http://www.screencast.com/t/LngqoATOa
        Account Management up to UB04 http://www.screencast.com/t/MSMLeo6Y
        Account Management to end http://www.screencast.com/t/R0k1jiJBTK

        Other comments vs competing options for building web apps are shown here http://www.alphasoftware.com/newsimg..._reactions.pdf

        Another real world example that we have been told by the developer took significantly less time to build in Alpha (without giving up any power) is this example http://blog.alphasoftware.com/2011/0...gement-as.html (this blog shows the app running under v10 - since then the app has had significant enhancements to take advantage of v11.)

        Yes there are web development tools such as PHP, Ruby etc but they require an awful lot of time to develop applications in, so ultimately one has to compare the cost of Alpha vs the cost of time savings.
        Richard Rabins
        Co Chairman
        Alpha Software

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

          Red Rag - Bull!

          This looks like damage limitation to me.

          Well just suppose that my market isn't the Web side for a moment.
          As Mike Vance has mentioned, in Guernsey a lot of the users are small business with no need for a web based application.
          Small to medium business use was traditionally the basis of using Alpha and it's why I got into it all those years ago.

          So now that "Based on endless feedback from customers - Alpha's real advantage and strength is now in terms of building web apps." can we assume that you are dumping the desktop side?
          The term "endless feedback" is pure marketing speak but it does put the slant on Web, which is understandable and not Desktop which was bread and butter.

          Supposing I wanted to move to the web side for another moment.
          Regarding cost of time vs cost of Alpha.
          I had a hard time convincing a UK Government group to accept that Alpha as a software engine could deliver the goods. They were, and still are, an Access site with the one exception - the app I built for them. I had the same problem with British Telecom, developing a simple SQL data loader in 2 weeks and it was over 4 months and still not finished when they tried to develop in C#. When the C# bit was finished, my app was superseeded.

          So please tell me Richard, why should I keep pushing Alpha - whom a lot of people have never heard of - when with a bit of effort I can learn and use free Microsoft tools?
          "So what do you develop in Ted?" "Alpha Five, its quick and solid, cost effective and has a great reputation"."Never heard of it. Can you do it in ASP?"

          One of the most difficult sales pitches I ever had to make was to the head of Marathon Oil Europe. "I don't know who you are, I don't know what your company does, and I can get 100 people to do the job, so sell me on your ideas". Where is the help from Alpha in the UK for any of this? I have asked for a platform whereby developers can showcase their apps, but the reply from Avanquest(?) was el-zippo!

          Yes I am aware of IADN however I believe that a showcase of "qualified" applications - and mine might not make it - would do wonders to get the name out there. Silly me, I only do desktop so that's not likely, is it?

          I had contacted your marketing dept when there was a mailshot asking if anyone was interested in selling through Alpha but got no reply.

          Writing this is making me more and more angry so I better stop before I say something I really shouldn't.
          See our Hybrid Option here;
          https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


          Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
          You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

            Understand first that I LOVE ALPHA!

            I think I can answer a lot and put things in perspective.

            I open a vegetable stand and only carry oranges and apples. I sell them for 39 cents a pound. I put up a big sign up out front, make a web page, put it all on youtube and facebook that I have apples for 39 cents a pound.
            I say nothing about the oranges.
            I ask you, which will I sell more of.

            This covers one of the basic rules of advertising.

            For years, I have catered to small to medium car dealers who do NOT want their data on the web. They want it in their possession at all times. I have sold hundreds of desktop F&I systems to those dealers.

            We had website for them to advertise on, and a lot of them did sign up for the websites.
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

              Tried Serif and didn't get on with it really, and more than 5 pages incurs a fee.

              I have been using KompoZer - which is totally free, wysisyg and very user friendly.
              I picked up serif's x4 at an office store for 14.95 and it works great. I do not like that it saves everything in a wpp file. Avanquest does the same. I also have komposer and have not really used it much yet. Maybe I will try it more to see.

              Ted, don't get too excited(angry). We are all in this together(alpha, programmers, etc) and need to help/push each other along a bit.

              If Alpha came up with the right web tools to use on unix, a major sql, and allow other stuff to be added, I would get on board today! I am not happy with the web engine that runs on ms stuff.
              Dave Mason
              [email protected]
              Skype is dave.mason46

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                I am desktop developer and continue to hope that Alpha Software will not do to us what MS did to Access developers. The Alpha sales model is theirs to own and promote.After all its is a business and that is about making money. While I get the current rage is the web/mobile, my customers still use desktop products. I am currently spending a fair number of hours learning the A5 desktop development environment, I hope I will have not wasted my time. I am getting nervous enough that before I get any deeper with my application under development that I have been thinking about moving back to VB.Net and Visual Studio; how scarey is that?

                If I look at the current sales promotion materials they are by and large sans desktop. Now coupled with Richards comments... does anyone have a paper bag I think I may be about to hyper-ventilate. :)
                Regards,

                John W.
                www.CustomReportWriters.net

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                  Just a quick response ... more later.

                  I do believe there is a very great misconception as to the web product. For the record, there is absolutely NO reason why the clients data needs to be on the "web". There is a curious thing out there called an InTRAnet ... operating completely within the confines of the client's network. Also, with A5 web apps you do NOT need a "web site" to provide it! Leave your Dreamweaver, Avanquest, KompozeR, et al out of it! Can EASILY be done completely with A5 web! :-) With a web-deployed version of your EXISTING database, EVERYONE on your client's INTERNAL network that has a web browser has access to it! It doesn't get a lot easier than that :-)

                  As for Alpha's new marketing direction, my speculation is tied to the above. One copy of A5 Web is all a single developer needs. Buy some FPs as needed. For a vast majority of clients, all they need is one copy of WAS to let everyone have access to your app :-) Alpha seems to me to be "preaching to the choir". I have been "doing this" since the early 80s and had never heard of them until this past March, and that was in the FileMaker Forum! If they REALLY wanted to get things rolling, Richard would set up a booth at the up and coming FileMaker DevCon! THOSE are the ones that need proselytizing! :-) OK, back to work on my web app that's due to roll out on Friday :-)
                  Cheers!
                  Lyle Chamney
                  http://www.2ninerniner2.com/
                  Websites rebuilt with WordPress
                  http://goodcheapfastwebsites.com/
                  Complete, ready to install WordPress websites
                  http://snifflevalve.com
                  WordPress training and tutorials

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                    Intranet development is Web development, the only difference is outside access. You still need some form of a webserver, be it app server, apache, iis, etc. Many of my small business customers do not have Web servers some don't even have networks.

                    So my bread and butter has been and will likely be desktop apps. In the meantime you can develop some pretty nice data centric Web apps with any number of free products. To be brutally honest I can register with MS as a partner for no cost and subscribe to their MS action pack for about a third of the cost of the Alpha subscription. That pack gives me a host of dev and design tools.

                    Even with that said I am a fan of Alpha Software there is a lot to like.

                    I still worry about its commitment to the desktop development side of things. Given the recent promos and Richard 's comments the worry is not without basis.
                    Regards,

                    John W.
                    www.CustomReportWriters.net

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                      John - that is what the 499.00 Web App Server is! All you need! Slap it on "anything" on your network and you are good to go as "localhost" :) If you are using MySQL (which I am) then go and get the FREE Uniform Server - a VERY nice WAMP (Windows Apache MySQL PHP)"stack". I've got my local network set up on a Win 7 Home Premium Lenovo laptop ... handles things just fine for the 4 additional computers on the network :)
                      Cheers!
                      Lyle Chamney
                      http://www.2ninerniner2.com/
                      Websites rebuilt with WordPress
                      http://goodcheapfastwebsites.com/
                      Complete, ready to install WordPress websites
                      http://snifflevalve.com
                      WordPress training and tutorials

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                        Originally posted by jkwrpc View Post
                        I still worry about its commitment to the desktop development side of things. Given the recent promos and Richard 's comments the worry is not without basis.
                        Yes, this is an interesting time, not only for Alpha but for us as well. Alpha’s main focus is and will continue to be mobile and web based. V11 may be the last true Desk Top we see from Alpha and it will morph to a combo desk top/web/mobile where the grids and dialogs will run on all three venues. The desk top will be simply a platform on which to run the grids and dialogs. In other words, Desk tops will not look the way we’ve designed and seen them for the last 20 years.

                        There will be no forms because there is no need for them other than on which to drop a grid and I expect, that as time goes by, forms will not be needed for that either. The desk top control panel will contain: Tables, Grids, Dialogs, Reports, Mailing Labels, Letters, Operations, Code and perhaps other major topics such as Maps, etc.

                        I am currently working on two apps where I use only Grids and dialogs The only function for the form will be to display the Grid, Dialog, Map, etc.

                        My only complaint with Alpha is the constant barrage of silly marketing schemes. It’s gotten to the point to where I don’t even read them anymore, I simple delete them. Other than an insignifigant variation, they are all the same. There is nearly 6 months to go on the first subscription and before I jump on the band wagon again, I want to see all that was promised for v11.

                        Understand, my comments are my "gut feelings". I have no inside information. I get this from the comments made by Alpha over the last couple of years on the message board. Perhaps tohough, my reading between the lines is in error. If so, it ani't by much.
                        TYVM :) kenn

                        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                          Lyle, KompoZer is a web page tool, not a web application server type tool.
                          It's easier that Alpha to use and pages are easily created.
                          Try creating a number of linked pages in Alpha and running/uploading them without purchasing a WAS license.
                          I tried for days to develop a set of web pages using Alpha with the Tabbed UI builder and fell flat on my face.
                          With KompoZer I was up and running with a demo site in a couple of hours. I got fed up fighting myself out of corners.
                          See our Hybrid Option here;
                          https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                          Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                          You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                            Ted - I do know that KompoZer is a web page tool, but why would you want to use that? :) You don't NEED to create any "web pages" with the Tabbed UI builder (TUIb) :) With even just a little HTML knowledge and TUIb, you can create a great looking, complete browser-deployed database :) Just to clarify, I have set up and installed literally over 400 Joomla!, WordPress, Drupal, PrestaShop, Moodle, eFront and yes, even plain, old HTML web sites. I will reiterate, one does not require any "web page builder" to get a nice looking product.

                            However, that being said, what I use to easily give the non-database "pages" in a A5 web app the same look and feel of my existing WordPress or Joomla! sites, is Artisteer. Can't beat it for 130 bux :) I use it to create the Login Page as well as the Home page for use within the TUIb. Don't need to use it, but it makes it easier, and that is why I am now using A5 instead of FileMaker, Wakanda, Real Studio, WaveMaker, Omnis, 4D, Delphi or whatever. I can actually get something done! :)
                            Cheers!
                            Lyle Chamney
                            http://www.2ninerniner2.com/
                            Websites rebuilt with WordPress
                            http://goodcheapfastwebsites.com/
                            Complete, ready to install WordPress websites
                            http://snifflevalve.com
                            WordPress training and tutorials

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                              @DaveM

                              I would be interested in knowing which development environments you looked at and what deficiencies relative to A5 you found. I previously looked at and was pretty impressed by IronSpeed and PHPRunner, among various others I looked at. to me, A5 was the most "Access like".

                              bob
                              Bob Alston
                              -------------------------------------------------------------------
                              http://webpages.charter.net/bobalston/bob1.htm
                              Alpha five v11 Tips

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Latest Alpha Five Sales Model Opinions

                                I previously looked at and was pretty impressed by IronSpeed and PHPRunner, among various others I looked at
                                I guess we all have our perspectives. 2-3 years ago I looked at both and thought both were a piece of junk - esp. PHP Runner. Boy was that ugly. Iron Speed back then was buggy and slow as a dog - and a really lame dog at that. Just recently I took another in-depth look at Iron Speed. In v9 they have improved it quite a bit. It's no longer as buggy as it was and it is much faster, although not as fast as Alpha. The thing about Iron Speed is that, although personally, I love the idea of a template driven integrated development environment, it is incredibly rigid. Basically it creates 1 grid and 3 forms for each table in your schema - view form, edit form and add record form. And although they have exquisite themes, every application you build looks identical. You have little control over such basics as icons in the grid (view, edit, add, and I forget the other one) and the placement of the forms, etc. Every app looks identical, except for the theme, which fails to contrast the overall template. so it actually is very limited. I could never build the kind of app I'm building currently in Alpha using Iron Speed, much less PHP Runner. Oh, and did I mention Iron Speed's price - WHOA! $2000-$3000 base minimum. And they too have a subscription plan - stop paying and Iron Speed stops working - seriously.

                                Believe me, I have my criticisms of Alpha, but the grass always looks greener in the other guy's yard...
                                Peter
                                AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                                [email protected]
                                https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


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