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Web or Desktop?

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    Web or Desktop?

    I have a little experience of Access (single user). I now want to write an application for my workshop employing 3 staff and have looked at Alpha5. I want to run customer facing apps from my office but run a production control app with tablets out at their (noisy) workstations so I can send them next job details and have them tick the box when finished. Should I start out as a desktop or web application? I think I will have to install a WiFi net but don't want to connect to the Internet. What is the A5 web application server? Is this the same as a SQL server or will I have to buy and install that too? Can I put the A5 WAS on the office computer running Windows 7? Any opinions or help much appreciated.

    #2
    Re: Web or Desktop?

    You can run a "web" app just on your network, doesn't have to be exposed to the web. The web application server is needed to run a "web" app. For a multi-user desktop would need the runtime. In either case you also need the developer to build your app. Desktop or web first? Not sure what to tell you. Web development is much harder (no matter what the web guys tell you) unless you have done web work before. But if you go desktop and then decide to go web, you will have to rebuild your app for the web later.
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #3
      Re: Web or Desktop?

      Hi George
      Explain "Customer Facing Apps" - that sounds like WEB
      My simple view is - If I look at the slick and complex data driven desktop applications that I deliver to business, to MANAGE the business process, most of the important functions that I use are specified "Desktop only". I would look at Web app only for where the facilities required are only possible on the web, not all the business processes.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Web or Desktop?

        Peter gave good advice(as always).

        If you are absolutely sure you will never go to the web, then desktop is quicker and easier to develope and using dbf is great. I believe it is less expensive too.

        Either way, you will want a wifi setup.

        I have had a customer in the past that wanted web only because he wanted his techs(wrecker and repair shop) to be able to access with laptops in the field(say 10 miles away). He decided on desktop because his cost to benefit was not there for the web when he factored in the laptops and connecting them. He chose the desktop and wifi. That way his equipment, monthly fees, and I were all less for him. Might add, he is still running on version 7.
        Dave Mason
        [email protected]
        Skype is dave.mason46

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Web or Desktop?

          Peter, thanks for the sound advice. The web tutorials I have viewed, DO make web look much harder than desktop but perhaps more versatile. All the A5 development (and sales incentives) seem to be aimed at web apps.
          Ray, I think of customer facing as Enquiries, Quotes, Progress checking, dispatch note, invoice (with export to our accounts program) which are all desktop. We don't do any selling on the Net.
          Dave, does the runtime make the database visible to the wifi network or do I have to enable file sharing or any other Windows feature?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Web or Desktop?

            Yes it does
            Dave, does the runtime make the database visible to the wifi network or do I have to enable file sharing or any other Windows feature?
            When you set up your database on a "server" that is hooked into the network, it will be on the wifi if the others are.

            I have a desktop in front of me that is hard wired and a desktop in another room that is on wifi. They see each other. I can therefore pale my main files on either one and access them from the other. Kinda like this
            http://www.lotrun.com/bestsetup.htm

            One more thought, Just because you have a desktop app, that does NOT mean you could not make a small(or large) web app off of that. Better left alone for now. I have a dealer with a desktop app where his used car buyers can add inventory to the app as they buy it and it is done over the web. Have to have developer, runtime in his case and was. That entailed making a web server for him. With the help I got here, it was a piece of cake.
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Web or Desktop?

              Dave, Many thanks - decision made, I will start with the desktop and maybe add a web app using the same tables later. Thanks everyone.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Web or Desktop?

                I've just found this, starting from A5 help
                http://wiki.alphasoftware.com/Alpha+...untime+License

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Web or Desktop?

                  I believe you will only need the unlimited(as many as you want) runtime as it comes today in v10(for sure) and v11(pretty sure). You woun't have to worry too much about setting it up.

                  When you are ready to do your runtime, place a thread on here(under the version of a5 you have asking how or search this forum for the many, many threads already posted and answered. Every kind of senario has been covered.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Web or Desktop?

                    Depends, I'm sure if you choose Web then you have many users of course. on the desktop, you probably have 1 or more users, I suggest you choose web and use SQL Server or MYSQL if you have 2 or more users. On the desktop part, if you have 1 user then 100% Alpha Five is the BEST, BUT if you have 2 or more users on the desktop, you have to think a million times before using the native dbf, but if you are just accessing 1,000 records then alpha five is still the BEST even if you use the native dbf, you are going to be amazed by its power in querying 1,000 records or less even if you use a complicated set. But if you have records over a hundred thousand, then please don't ever consider using dbf, consider using MYSQL or SQL SERVER, although I have not tested alpha on on these servers when it comes to the speed it accesses over a network, but by then, even if alpha five will be slow, then you will have options to use other programming languages that can access these databases, you have Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Express Edition(C# VB.NET, F#) its free, JAVA etc.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Web or Desktop?

                      Originally posted by JetLi View Post
                      But if you have records over a hundred thousand, then please don't ever consider using dbf,
                      I don't agree with this assessment. On the desktop, Alpha is fine w. a 100,000 or more records. It's not an issue in my experience. I would recommend a SQL backend for the web, however, for many reasons.
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Web or Desktop?

                        I have to agree with Peter on the 100,000+ plus records. No problems in dbf. I have several dealerships that have surpassed 100k records with a lot of users, and manny fields in a lot of tables that are connected to sets. They are having 0 issues with speed. It just depends on how you build it and what you are needing to do.

                        SQL if going to web(NO doubt)! However, I tested dbf on the web(my own server) and it worked fine and very quick. I saw no difference than with mysql. I may have been able to do it better and sql would have been faster?? Not sure.

                        SQL is probably more secure and kinda needed if using a hosting service.
                        Dave Mason
                        [email protected]
                        Skype is dave.mason46

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Web or Desktop?

                          I have created 1 table and put 300,000 records, JUST 1 table no sets, build a single form and shadowed it in a workstation, the workstation opens the form with a blink of an eye, WOW very impressive, now i pretended to be an end user/client. I wanted to filter the 300,000 with the records I want, I hard coded a filter with an equal criteria, then I used the QBF, it took 1 minute and 35 seconds on the workstation to display, once I clicked search the status bar shows that it is like counting from the first record to the last record then it displays now the filtered record, for me, 1 minute and 35 seconds is too slow, with your many users, are they taking this speed fast? I think there are no design issues here, or developer level to be considered, whether I am a novice, I think 1 table does not need an alpha expert to design it very well and make a form and deploy it to a workstation. I made just 1 table and 1 form for testing purposes on the speed on a single workstation. Please share if you have a secret on how to make the query on the workstation to be at least 20 seconds, Microsoft Access displays it at 9.5 seconds.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Web or Desktop?

                            The (not so secret) secrets
                            Just design
                            I have a system with just over 296000 records in archive stock movements, collecting additional current quarter movements, producing collective comparisons of value with various criteria, linked to master files.
                            The users queries display as fast the eye lifts from the keyboard.
                            Once the correct prep has been done beforehand. All DBFs

                            I have another that assimilates only 2600 records across three 1:1 linked tables to create a comprehensive table 0f 21 thousand that takes 51 seconds.
                            They have the same sort of result in an access program that I am replacing (for other reasons not speed) that takes over 4 minutes.

                            Ask Dave - the race car depends on the driver and track.
                            Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 07-07-2012, 01:38 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Web or Desktop?

                              NOTE Jet - I am not doing these operations on a form
                              Just the final results

                              Maybe you could get a little more experience with alpha before giving advice on its capabilities.

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