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Thread: Loading A5V11 very slow

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    I did a little poking around on .NET slow loads and it's a common problem and I think that's what we're seeing. Apparently there's JIT compiling going on and that's a time burner. Then once it's resident things will be fast for about 20 minutes and then will reinitiate that JIT compile again. That's assuming it has not been touched. If you keep loading and closing within that window it's fine. Or at least that's my experience. Now, once you are in the application, there are silly things that again can slow you down. Like drop-down lists (local--not tables). But after you do it once, they're fast after that. This is very confusing.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    It loads faster on the 2nd and subsequent uses (afrer a reboot) using the computer's cache - has nothing to do with Alpha or .net. This is true for all programs. Also, the more cache the better. If they do not turn off the computer at night, the cache is maintained.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Jerry, I have this exact same problem. In fact, the problem exists whenever I'm doing another table look up or even drop down. I've researched this and it still daunts me. And haunts me, BTW. A5V5 was soooo snappy. This V11 is a bit embarrassing. I am running on a network that I don't have much control over so I don't have any idea how I would trouble shoot that. Does .NET have to be pushed from somewhere other than my desktop machine? It just seems as though A5V11 is not handling the network very well.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    V11 has a much much bigger footprint than v5, as well as different compilers - many many more functions, methods, and xdialog stuff as well as app server stuff - I think it is presumed that if you have V11 you have a new, fast computer, with a gigabit network card on all workstations and a gigibit network card on the server and a gigabit switch, etc.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Jeff, I'm resurecting this thread because my A5V11 desktop--NO APPS!--can take up to two minutes to load the first time. There's something broken here that it would take that long to load. Did you ever come up with a solution for this problem?

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    BTW, after the first load A5V11 comes up instantaneously. But the first load after being off for a couple of days is taking minutes. And all you get is a grey screen with a title Alpha Five (Not Responding).
    Very odd indeed.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
    Jeff, I'm resurecting this thread because my A5V11 desktop--NO APPS!--can take up to two minutes to load the first time. There's something broken here that it would take that long to load. Did you ever come up with a solution for this problem?
    It's been a while since I looked at this issue. I don't remember if I improved V11 by doing something special. I only have V10 running in a production environment and there are no issues with speed. I never tried V11 in the same environment, so I can't be very much help on this. Sorry.

    Jeff

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Nobody has mentioned their settings for A5 in preferences. Is background checking on or off for example?
    Robin

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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Background Checking..don't recall that. Would that be true of the runtime stations as well as developer? Does setting it change all clients? I'll look at that tomorrow. I don't know what backround task it would be checking..but maybe there's something going on there.
    MartinWCole..I'm talking upwards of two minutes here just to get to the menu. I run autocad (a hog) as well as MS Office--often at the same time and they are instant (well, okay, a few seconds) load time. Not only that but there is NO indication A5 is even loading causing many users to shut it down in the task manager as a hung process. We're running i7s with Windows 7 and scads of memory 1Gb cards, full CAT cable into 1 GHZ routers, SP2 on some really healthy Dell Servers. Nah, it's something to do with A5--and it'll be something overlooked. I don't think I'm the ONLY one but maybe there aren't many. Like to get my finger on the problem though.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Let's have a vote. How many of you think that just A5V11 runtime (not your app) should load in 10 seconds or less.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    jst opened v11 and v12 on my desktop - no apps - opened after about 4 seconds - there is definitely something not right on your system - it is not Alpha, it sounds like anti virus or something like that
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  12. #42
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Mine loads in around 3 secs.
    I'm using SSD
    Ted Giles
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    reboot your computers and try it again.
    Andrew

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    mine was after a reboot on W7 64
    Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
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  15. #45
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    I don't have runtime and I am on trial. load was 12 seconds first time and 3 seconds on a second time. winxp3 32 and a very fast system.

    May try it again on win7 later. I know it is faster in win8

  16. #46
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    What size swap area have you?
    Ted Giles
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  17. #47
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    I don't know how to ascertain that..or what it should be. How do I do that?

  18. #48
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Be careful with this.

    Swap is, in short, virtual RAM. With swap, a small portion of the hard drive is set aside and used like RAM. The computer will attempt to keep as much information as possible in RAM until the RAM is full. At that point, the computer will begin moving inactive blocks of memory (called pages) to the hard disk, freeing up RAM for active processes. If one of the pages on the hard disk needs to be accessed again, it will be moved back into RAM, and a different inactive page in RAM will be moved onto the hard disk ('swapped'). The trade off is disks and SD cards are considerably slower than physical RAM, so when something needs to be swapped, there is a noticeable performance hit.

    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/w...virtual-memory
    Ted Giles
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  19. #49
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    I recall something about that. But if it slows things down, why do it? Seems like it's a space saver but not a speed changer. This would imply I should REDUCE the size of the swap cache? I assume this is happening on the client side. I wish there was a way I could tell A5V11 to NOT allow unloading. I have scads of space. But not much 'time' if you know what I mean. And almost everyone has at least 8GB of ram. Why can't it reside there and then write to the disk if it needs to. Surely the code is not THAT big.

    And, it seems odd that running some biggies like Autocad, Office (all elements), that they load nearly instantaneously. There is concern also that the only window you get is a gray screen with (Alpha Five, Not Responding) at the top. So what are my clients supposed to think. They shut it down (task mgr) and try loading it again. Eventually they call me and I tell them for the 20th time to be patient. If there was some sort of activity on that screen..a blue line or something--even that would be an improvement. It's aggravating since once the main element loads, the app is sweet. I need feedback from the app.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Today after a rebooting A5v11 took 9 secs to open. Shut down A5v11 and reopened several times and it took 2-3 secs.
    Andrew

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Andrew Schone, was this over a network, local?

  22. #52
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Dennis, except in cases using terminal server the Alpha Five program files should always be opened locally, right?

  23. #53
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Tom, you might have your finger on the problem.
    Dennis, can you let us know where the version of Alpha you are having problems with actually resides?
    If it is on your PC, it should load as described sbove.
    If the version you are using is on the network server, it all has to be downloaded. That will slow you up.

    Are you using RunTime for the users with Network Optimisation?
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  24. #54
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Net 4.0 or no, it's taking A5V11 over sixty seconds to load over a network.
    Is A5V11 installed on each machine? This statement sounds like A5V11 is loaded on a server.

    We're running A5V11 runtimes, build 3489_4119, shadowed applications on a variety of machines using Win XP, Win 7 and Win 8. The XP machines load a little slower, but not by much. Maybe 15 seconds slower. This is on older cheap Dell machines with 2 gig of ram. Some are close to 10 years old, Dimension 2400's etc.... We're using a desktop shortcut with a splash screen to load A5V11 and to call up the application.

    The network has been updated to gigabit throughout.

    As to the .net issue, in my experience, .net doesn't slow down the loading of A5V11. What I have seen is that from our main menu, selecting one of the choices right after loading A5V11, there is a delay before one particular form is loaded. The toolbar loads right away. This only happens on the winXP machines.

    I have noticed the not responding message occasionally. It appears to be random and I've only see this on the Win 7 and Win 8 machines. I suspect that this has something to do with the network and getting data from the server.

  25. #55
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    Default Re: Loading A5V11 very slow

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Mathias View Post
    Andrew Schone, was this over a network, local?
    I have A5v11 installed on the local disk. The timing I used was from icon click until the prompt to select the Database/Workspace displayed.

    .Net is the cause of the difference in first start of 9 secs to subsequent starts of 2-3 secs. .Net is not initially loaded after a reboot of the computer. Thus a longer delay in start up. Once .Net is loaded into memory it stays resident until shutdown. Hence the 2-3 secs start up times.
    Andrew

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