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The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

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    #16
    Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

    Are you an Alpha developer and want to work on any company's payroll?
    In that case you will need an employer who already uses Alpha and is looking for developers to work for him. In The Netherlands, there are none. And I mean literally: none.
    Then this route is totally off the table, for now.

    You are an independent developer and produce software you sell.
    The more significant your software gets, the more trouble you will have. Customers may need to have something installed to secure their investments if you and your car (God forbid) hit a train tomorrow and die. They will not like to see their investments go down with you. Some kind of escrow arrangement would have to be in place.
    People will want to be sure, that if you get ill tomorrow, there still is a developer who can do their updates for you: some kind of arrangement with colleagues might come in handy.
    Then you need an arrangement/partnership with a larger Alpha shop to satisfy clients that support goes on...even if you don't!

    You need to convince why people would buy a product developed with something they do not know, and virtually nobody here knows: why would they?
    Do you mean other than having their project finished faster, less expensively, with as much or more functionality?

    You might only be one developer. You need to design and develop the software. Next thing you know you also need to sell it, and after that, you may need to install it with your customer and might even be asked to be a software trainer because you need to train their employees in using it. Who has that much time on their hands, and how do you get this to pay off financially?
    I think you've just described the business you voluntarily chose to pursue. But, seriously, aren't these all items you would charge for...to make it pay off financially?

    Then there is the vendor lock-in. Your customer is not only buying YOUR product, but also the product of a company they do not know either: Alpha Software.
    Your application will vanish into thin air in a year or so when Alpha Software falls tomorrow.
    You are quite the Devil's Advocate! Perhaps that fact that Alpha has been around for quite some time already is a good selling point, and that they just (within the last year or so) attracted additional capital. Have you ever tried arranging a call between a potential client and an Alpha exec to help allay some of those concerns?

    Also, it's not like an Alpha solution doesn't use any "industry standard" components...SQL, Javascript, HTML...is it only Xbasic that really makes it different? My point being, that perhaps the similarities of Alpha to the competition, rather than it's differences can be explained.

    How do you sell that to your customer? And do you even WANT to sell that if you could?
    I think now you've lapsed into despair, and wished you had gone into carpet sales, or something. I think it's cocktail time now in the Netherlands, so why don't you hoist a cold one and cheer up a bit?!

    Comment


      #17
      Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

      The one Biggest difference between sales and programming is "Showing" enthusiasm and "assuming" the sale, where programming is an after the fact like when you solve very large problem to the app.

      To me, making a sale is like solving a major math problem in xbasic, or winning a nascar race, or going on a date with the most beautiful girl in high school.
      Dave Mason
      [email protected]
      Skype is dave.mason46

      Comment


        #18
        Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

        Hello Marcel,

        We are a small company (2 guys) with 1 (rather big) vertical application for a few related niche markets. For over 15 years.... and never been in .net or likewise.
        Yes together we manage everyting for our customers (mostly companies 5-10 employees, some bigger, some smaller). And we like to do that.
        In our business service, product quality and versatility, price competiveness compared to the big guys are the selling points. Main uphill battle is being a small company, not the development platform. Being so long time in business dedicated to this product helps us out here :-).

        So we are very glad that we choosed Alpha as our new development platform to port our paradox for windows (!) application to the web 2 years ago. Speed of development is a big plus for developers like us. And being able (in the near future) to offer prospects an almost riskfree trial period online will certainly make selling more easy to us.

        Nevertheless, additional publicity for Alpha as an alternative devellopmentool won't harm us :-).
        Now we sell it as our 'secret weapon form America' if the question is raised, and I think that is true. So count me in if i can play a role in that. But guess: my time is limited...
        Ger Kurvers
        Alpha Anywhere / V4.6.1.9- Build 6488 (production) / V4.6.5.1 - 8722-5683(testing)
        Development: Mysql, windows 10 64 Applicationserver: standard on Windows server 2019

        Comment


          #19
          Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

          I will arrange for at least two online GoToMeeting "Developer Summit" events (free), one for the Westen hemisphere and one for the Eastern.

          Let's see if we can list some specific Goals and Objectives here. To keep from wandering, the goals and objectives should be under a pretty narrow topic like "How to earn a living as a Developer using Alpha Five."

          I will create a simple signup form in a couple days after we have a good set of goals and objectives.
          Steve Wood
          See my profile on IADN

          Comment


            #20
            Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

            Hi Steve,

            Sorry I did not acknowledge your earlier post.

            Thank you for devoting your time and efforts to help others. If I may join in?? I may be of help to some and would be happy to share a few salesmanship techniques and other answers to also help. It is a fact, it always helps to help others and I can learn more in the process.

            I have never used "Go to meeting" software, but will get some familiarity with it in the next couple days.
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


              #21
              Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

              Originally posted by DaveM View Post
              The one Biggest difference between sales and programming is "Showing" enthusiasm and "assuming" the sale, where programming is an after the fact like when you solve very large problem to the app.

              To me, making a sale is like solving a major math problem in xbasic, or winning a nascar race, or going on a date with the most beautiful girl in high school.
              I guess Dave, it's all about the market you are in. Showing enthusiasm does not pay the bill in all markets. It ain't always that simple.

              In the market were I was in, we were successfully working with Alpha Five for a good decade, when at some point we got shot from below and above: one of the new major shareholders (a large multinational financial institution) ordered us to go "market-standard" and some large customers (chains of financial stores) would only enter into business with us if our software became "market standard". I will not bother you with all the detailed reasons that support those visions. Such things are a fact of life. You either comply or get stuck with the ugly consequences.

              You simply can't sell everything with a smile and some enthusiasm using smart phrases and playing with facts. That might work with the family that is afraid to get stuck with a car in a bad neighborhood, but it doesn't if you get to deal with certified financial institutions who tend to work with multinational concepts.

              Why do you have to mention "B Grade" Alpha( I don't consider it B grade)??
              Because that is how it is seen in those circles. Make no mistake: I have fought against such simplified opinions about Alpha for many years! It is not my personal opinion. As you could have read I personally think quite otherwise. Why would I otherwise bother with this thread? But nobody has ever made any progress by sticking his head in the sand, and I guess it is needed to face reality sometimes, whether we like it or not, before reality bites us in the rear.

              Of course, when you create a software product and sell it off-shelve for a hundred bucks or so, your customers aren't bothered by in what environment or language you created your product. They are only interested in whether it works for them or not in terms of features and price. But "the market" is a huge place with many faces. What works for one niche in the market does not work for another. My part of the market was a highly specialized business where seamless integration of software applications was not an exception but a demand. When I first started there I wondered how Alpha could have ever been chosen, but the owner started small and grew exponentially. And it is a compliment for Alpha that it seemed to be able to simply grow along with the company until hundreds of people worked with it to the value of billions of dollars. The story has for some years ago been written by Alpha and is somewhere on their servers. If you are interested I have no doubt you can find it.

              I suppose Dave when you look at the vacancies for software developers this says it all. If Alpha is so well integrated in the business society, why then is it, that actually NOBODY is offering Alpha developers over here any jobs?? You tell me. Or are our cars simply better then yours?

              Comment


                #22
                Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                I will arrange for at least two online GoToMeeting "Developer Summit" events (free), one for the Westen hemisphere and one for the Eastern.

                Let's see if we can list some specific Goals and Objectives here. To keep from wandering, the goals and objectives should be under a pretty narrow topic like "How to earn a living as a Developer using Alpha Five."

                I will create a simple signup form in a couple days after we have a good set of goals and objectives.
                That sounds great Steve. I think indeed we should streamline this so we don't drift away from target.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                  Originally posted by cptutrecht View Post
                  Hello Marcel,

                  We are a small company (2 guys) with 1 (rather big) vertical application for a few related niche markets. For over 15 years.... and never been in .net or likewise.
                  Yes together we manage everyting for our customers (mostly companies 5-10 employees, some bigger, some smaller). And we like to do that.
                  In our business service, product quality and versatility, price competiveness compared to the big guys are the selling points. Main uphill battle is being a small company, not the development platform. Being so long time in business dedicated to this product helps us out here :-).

                  So we are very glad that we choosed Alpha as our new development platform to port our paradox for windows (!) application to the web 2 years ago. Speed of development is a big plus for developers like us. And being able (in the near future) to offer prospects an almost riskfree trial period online will certainly make selling more easy to us.

                  Nevertheless, additional publicity for Alpha as an alternative devellopmentool won't harm us :-).
                  Now we sell it as our 'secret weapon form America' if the question is raised, and I think that is true. So count me in if i can play a role in that. But guess: my time is limited...
                  Hey Ger, nice to hear from you. Did I maybe meet you during the Alpha Conference in Putten several years ago? Back then hosted by Basys Software? Could be, if you are around in Alpha for 15 years already. It is always great to hear from others in our country working with Alpha!

                  But if you do, you will certainly also know you are only one of few..... it would be very interesting to know why YOU think that is the case? I can understand why you would use Alpha, the question is more: why do others not, and what can we do to improve the image of our environment ?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                    Hi TPeterson, you made some very interesting points. Please allow me to answer only a few of them, otherwise this will become a book

                    Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
                    Do you mean other than having their project finished faster, less expensively, with as much or more functionality?
                    I know. You are right. But unfortunately that is not all that matters. Let's assume you have your app built in Alpha, and have 4 full time developers on it in-house, on your payroll. Suppose you need to implement a new software line in it because your business comes with a new product. But they want it TOMORROW. You have calculated and thought about it in any way you can, but you simple can't do it with the 4 guys you have.... you need to hire one (or more) external hands..... Where to find them here??
                    You won't be able to! On the other hand, would you have build it in a market standard environment (which name we will not overexpose for now) you would simply pick up the phone and order 5 seasoned developers to begin tomorrow.... And please don't take it like this is the only problem you could encounter. It is just an example.
                    As said, I could write a book on it. In a professional environment, "fast and cheap" are not holy anymore. Quality matters, not only of the product but also of what is connected to it.

                    Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
                    You are quite the Devil's Advocate! Perhaps that fact that Alpha has been around for quite some time already is a good selling point, and that they just (within the last year or so) attracted additional capital. Have you ever tried arranging a call between a potential client and an Alpha exec to help allay some of those concerns?
                    You are quite correct with your assumption I was playing Devils Advocate! I hope everybody understands that as well as you.
                    In the cases where this played a role, people are not even INTERESTED in learning about Alpha. They simply point to the market-standard and say: STOP PLAYING AROUND, GO THERE! Hack, I have even had head-to-head shootouts with .NET developers to let them bite the dust in terms of development speed!! And it really took no time at all.....

                    It really is not about me. I am a long proven Alpha fan. It is just that damned image that we do not seem to get rid of. Nobody simply chooses the environment to work with generally spoken. If you do, they look at you with a somewhat pity look, and call it "childsplay" behind your back.

                    You can't fight a ghost and as long as Alpha Software does not make a marketing stand here in Europe, that is exactly what the product is here: A GHOST.

                    Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
                    Also, it's not like an Alpha solution doesn't use any "industry standard" components...SQL, Javascript, HTML...is it only Xbasic that really makes it different? My point being, that perhaps the similarities of Alpha to the competition, rather than it's differences can be explained.
                    Great point again! Yes you are right there as well, and I often did so. Maybe the product v12 should NOT be called "Alpha Anywhere" but instead: Alpha.NET
                    That might make a sudden difference in things.
                    I remember Alpha one time had great connections with ORACLE and we were all waiting on them to announce some kind of close cooperation between Alpha Software and ORACLE. That would have made an instant breakthrough for Alpha in the professional market in Europe.

                    Thank you for your points and remarks!!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                      Hi Marcel,

                      Nope, we are fairly new to Alpha (since 2 years). Before (and until!) that we developed in Paradox for Windows.

                      So we didn't meet before. But i guess we will (and i'm looking forward to a meeting with fellow Dutch developers).

                      Frankly, being so late on board might be the reason we trust the product. We started with V10, that wasn't bad, but wouldn't be good enough for our business. 10.5 was hope giving. Ad since V11 we are confident in the product. Not because the (promised :-) .net support but because we can build all what we need fast. With nice gimmics that help to sell our software like charting and basic mobile features.

                      We only use it for webdevelopment, because that is the way we and our customers want to go.

                      So, i think that the last decade the product just wasn't good enough for a breakthrough on the european market. Now it is in my opinion, so it will grow...
                      Maybe not much adoption in my generation. But when see how easy and with how much pleasure my 13 year old son creates things in his webdeveloper version without help from his father, than there is world to win for Alpha. But maybe they target another grow route...fair enough, that is theire call.


                      Originally posted by mronck View Post
                      Hey Ger, nice to hear from you. Did I maybe meet you during the Alpha Conference in Putten several years ago? Back then hosted by Basys Software? Could be, if you are around in Alpha for 15 years already. It is always great to hear from others in our country working with Alpha!

                      But if you do, you will certainly also know you are only one of few..... it would be very interesting to know why YOU think that is the case? I can understand why you would use Alpha, the question is more: why do others not, and what can we do to improve the image of our environment ?
                      Ger Kurvers
                      Alpha Anywhere / V4.6.1.9- Build 6488 (production) / V4.6.5.1 - 8722-5683(testing)
                      Development: Mysql, windows 10 64 Applicationserver: standard on Windows server 2019

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                        Marcel.

                        You did not get the gist to mentioning "B Grade Alpha". I rarely ever mention alpha and I have sold an Alpha database system for $16,000.00. That is not exactly off the shelf, but there are 29 copies of it out there now.

                        One of the greatest things still is "Attitude is Altitude"

                        The first thing I teach new sales people is attitude and if they can't get their attitude into it, oh well.
                        Dave Mason
                        [email protected]
                        Skype is dave.mason46

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                          I will start a new thread on this once we have clarity on the goals and objective. Here is a start...

                          Topic: Summit Meeting for all Alpha Five Developers

                          Theme: Improve the business prospects for every Alpha Five Developer worldwide

                          Terms:

                          Prospects - those businesses and individuals who are in a position to use our services.
                          Clients - those business and individuals already using our services.
                          Developers - us guys.

                          Goals:

                          - Increase awareness of Alpha Five as a viable and even better solution.
                          - more goals here...

                          Possible solutions:

                          - Coordinate Developer's "sales pitch" to present a consistent message to prospective clients
                          - Evangalize the product
                          - Tweak Alpha's marketing and sales approach to assist in building interest among Prospects as well as Developers.
                          - Coordinate Developer's marketing efforts to build this awareness - social media, local efforts, trade shows, etc.
                          - See things from the Prospect's and Client's eyes - identify pros and cons of using Alpha Five on a typical project.
                          - Identify how to thwart or minimize above 'cons', exentuate the 'pros'.
                          - Attitude, attitude, attitude

                          Facts affecting the environment:

                          - Prospects are different than Developers. We are Developers; Prospects are those who would take advantage of our services.
                          - There are a lot more Prospects in the world than Developers!
                          - There are a lot more non-Alpha Five Developers in the world than Alpha Five Developers.
                          - There are millions being committed every day on new software development projects!

                          Think of it this way, if ALL of us worked for the same company as their "software development team" we would have a consistent message both to the prospect/client, and internal amongst ourselves. It is possible to create that environment while still being independent developers. We would still be independent developers, but part of a worldwide team. Think of the worldwide company named Accenture. They employ thousands of contract consultants worldwide. The contract consultants are all "independent" but they all are part of Accenture and deliver a consistent message to prospective clients.
                          Steve Wood
                          See my profile on IADN

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                            Steve, one issue in "Coordinating a Developer's "sales pitch" to present a consistent message to prospective clients" is ensuring the delivery of a consistent, i.e. very good, end product. The Bell Curve dictates that while there are some very good Alpha developers, there are also some very bad Alpha developers. Perhaps one of the goals should be the creation of an Alpha Developer Certification, or levels of certification, that delineate the areas in which developers are considered very competent. I know if I developed for third parties for a living (I develop for my own corporate finance use), I would be wary of sharing a message with folks who have just learned to place a grid on an A5W page (like me). When you start marketing the merits of the "platform", which is certainly warranted, it will tend to equalize those who call themselves Alpha developers, unless some kind of certification is involved. Without certification, the risk is that poor client experiences will reflect badly on the platform, not just the developer.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                              Certification can and should be done under IADN (see link below). "Certification" has a legal meaning and comes with some implied liability by the certifying entity. A Certification program (USA anyway) requires approval of a governing organization like the Board of Education. Being a good developer is more than passing some programming tests.
                              Steve Wood
                              See my profile on IADN

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                                Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                                Marcel.

                                You did not get the gist to mentioning "B Grade Alpha". I rarely ever mention alpha and I have sold an Alpha database system for $16,000.00. That is not exactly off the shelf, but there are 29 copies of it out there now.

                                One of the greatest things still is "Attitude is Altitude"

                                The first thing I teach new sales people is attitude and if they can't get their attitude into it, oh well.
                                I DID understand that Dave, and I respect you for getting some success with that. It works for you, and that is all one could ever want.
                                But as I keep saying: that does not work everywhere....

                                Let me hook on to your reaction a few posts ago. Don't take this the wrong way, I mean no disrespect and I don't mean to be blunt. I much appreciate your contributions to this thread because every sound needs to be heard in order to come any step further with this quest. I did not say this earlier, because I feel it may easily be understood as "condescending", and that is not how I mean it. But since it may shed some light on my point, here goes anyway:

                                Bill Gates had nothing when he started. He is/was a master salesperson first!!! He was also an excellent programmer.
                                I am a master salesman!
                                But still you are nothing anywhere close to Bill Gates. So there must be more to it then that. And there is.
                                There is always something specific in any situation that makes the clock tick. You can't simply duplicate approaches everywhere and trust it will deliver the same results. Situations vary, moments in time vary, chances and opportunities vary, circumstances vary.
                                Yes, I hear you, it is in the skill-set of the master salesman to pick those up and go from there. But even the very best master salesman who ever lived on this planet would not be able to make his fortune living as Robinson Crusoe on an inhabited island with only Friday at his side who has no money. Get the picture?

                                Circumstances on Europe's Mainland have, in the past decade, not been favorable for ANY developer working with Alpha Five. Unfortunately. And I have done quite something to change that. To no avail in the end. As said earlier: changing the future of Alpha in Europe is not a one developer job!
                                Now, like Ger said, this may very well be on the verge of changing with v11 or v12 as this might be the moment where the professional IT world over here will start to see the Alpha Five product as matured and up-to-the-job. I do not yet see the signals, but I can see it happening just like Ger said. However, one swallow does not make the summer.

                                The whole point of this thread might be to understand where that moment lies, and what we need to do to help this "change" take place, and in between, what can be the strategy of any Alpha Five developer in Europe to survive and earn a living.

                                This may be:

                                1) A change in attitude (thank you Dave for that point)
                                2) A change in how to use it (thank you Felix for that point)
                                3) Highlighting the positives and industry standards included more then the productname of Alpha (thank you TPeterson for that point)


                                And any more issues that can come up in Steve's conference, and I hope there are many, and I hope it will be achievable for most.
                                Last edited by mronck; 11-27-2012, 05:43 AM.

                                Comment

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