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The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

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    #76
    Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

    Hi Eric.

    Point is, something will not become the future just because Alpha says it will. There is no doubt in my mind that mobile devices will play an important role in the future. The question however is, WHO's future?? You can't manoeuvre "the future" in a place where your needs are. History has shown, that companies often are a very bad judge to predict the route future will take. I bring text-messaging into mind. Who would have believed it would become that big? Look at the smart phone. It almost cost market-leader Nokia its life when they did not soon enough react to a changing market and thought it would only be minor. This can however go both ways. So I agree with Eric that changing to market conditions is vital for any market but bring to the table that it is often hard to decipher the way the market is going, and when you change not exactly in the right moment or to the right extend or direction, chances are you will take the wrong route and end somewhere else as where "the future" will be. Examples of that you can write books off.

    Mobile will never replace the desktop. It will be an addition to it at best. Something new, that will fulfill new roles in business or replace less optimized existing solutions. As you pointed out, it makes no sense to replace the desktop with a mobile device to write a Word document for your business. So that is not about to happen. With regards to any new role this will be in the area of mobile officers like sales representatives or other employees that work in the field. That however will still be a minority of the employees of which most are still living and functioning in office buildings where the desktop rules and will rule in the future.

    That has been the market with which Alpha grew up, and it will always be an important market for Alpha in the future. Whether they will still service that market in the future is obviously Alpha's decision and not ours. The mobile market will be an important addition to the group of functions that Alpha needs to cover to be taken seriously in the future. When it limits it's product to that section however, it will doubtlessly suffer from that consequence. I doubt that this will be the case, and there are enough statements already from Selwyn where he says the desktop will be served in the future as well. The most important danger I see with this whole development is, that the desktop will still be serviced, but only with minor resources as a consequence of which the future desktop product could prove to be not much improved or it's enhancement comes to a dead-stop. Should this happen, then customers who have strong interests in the desktop product will possibly abandon ship. Alpha is only a small company, and it has limited resources. Working on Mobile doubtlessly means working less on other sections. That will cause friction, since the market has not come to a dead-stop and is still moving on and asking for improvements that do not come. Looking at v9 to v11 the realized desktop changes do not appear as "high impact ones" to me I must say. But that could just and only be me.

    Even if Alpha will produce the best possible mobile device development environment in the future, it still is no guarantee that the market will adopt this. Anybody who does not live in Wonderland knows that. Take for example the 8-track system. Technically advanced delivering audio over 8 tracks it was vastly superior to the audio-cassette. Nevertheless it lost from that very same audio-cassette. Alpha needs to battle Microsoft's marketing budgets in order to win the fight for the customer, and that is almost impossible to do. I can not find any other reason as to why Alpha Five still has a smaller market share then Microsoft's Access product. It is vastly superior to Access, there have been many tests and reviews proving that, nonetheless this did not change the market situation for a bit: look at post #73. How clear do you want to have it? The big players have a huge grip on the development market and are not giving in to someone small. If you want market ground, you need to fight them every inch of the market you want to get, and defend it at once. Now, the past history is no guarantee for the future as we know, but in the past Alpha has unfortunately not succeeded in taking ground from Access in the professional market as post #73 shows clearly and we as professionals all knew already.

    Stick to what you know best. Keep improving. Many entrepreneurs who succeeded in one field of business changed to a completely different thing and most of the time only to find out that success in one field is no guarantee for an other field.

    Below is a graph that shows the development in number of threads on the Alpha forum between Desktop and Webapp. Note, that v11 has started only shortly.
    Threads.jpg
    Last edited by mronck; 12-01-2012, 08:08 AM.

    Comment


      #77
      Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

      Marcel,

      As you know, mobile extends beyond the typical field salesperson, claims adjuster, etc., entering data remotely, or checking inventories. Our top level executives all have company issued iPads and would LOVE to be able to check specific company metrics while traveling, meeting with analysts, on a phone call at home with a Board member, etc. Further, some of our mid-level people are beginning to use tablets to refer to data while in meetings in the office. In our office, mobile is just getting started and it will continue to grow substantially.

      When you say that mobile will never replace the desktop, how do you classify browser based applications delivered via a company's server? If it looks, feels and acts like a desktop application is it one? Or, are you just referring to the physical form of a desktop PC with a separate keyboard, mouse and screen? If someone is using a client/terminal on a company network is that a desktop? It's all getting blurred to me!

      The point has been made, perhaps even proven, that Alpha is a non-factor in the corporate IT community, particularly in the EU. Of course, not so long ago, Amazon was a non-factor in the publishing industry and Apple was a non-factor in the music industry. This is not to compare Alpha with Amazon and Apple, but to point out that inroads to existing markets can significantly change as technology changes. For example, would not an Alpha developer be able to say to a potential client, "Try me out as your developer of remote data solutions, and you can still use your "safe", existing technology for everything else."? Would not limiting one's initial engagement to developing impressive and cost effective tablet applications, at little risk to the client, serve as a nice inroad to that client's larger development plans? In this regard, I think Alpha's "highly" mobile strategy seems a good one (I define "highly" mobile as applications geared towards tablet use, not desktop use).

      Comment


        #78
        Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

        Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
        Marcel,

        As you know, mobile extends beyond the typical field salesperson, claims adjuster, etc., entering data remotely, or checking inventories. Our top level executives all have company issued iPads and would LOVE to be able to check specific company metrics while traveling, meeting with analysts, on a phone call at home with a Board member, etc. Further, some of our mid-level people are beginning to use tablets to refer to data while in meetings in the office. In our office, mobile is just getting started and it will continue to grow substantially.

        When you say that mobile will never replace the desktop, how do you classify browser based applications delivered via a company's server? If it looks, feels and acts like a desktop application is it one? Or, are you just referring to the physical form of a desktop PC with a separate keyboard, mouse and screen? If someone is using a client/terminal on a company network is that a desktop? It's all getting blurred to me!

        The point has been made, perhaps even proven, that Alpha is a non-factor in the corporate IT community, particularly in the EU. Of course, not so long ago, Amazon was a non-factor in the publishing industry and Apple was a non-factor in the music industry. This is not to compare Alpha with Amazon and Apple, but to point out that inroads to existing markets can significantly change as technology changes. For example, would not an Alpha developer be able to say to a potential client, "Try me out as your developer of remote data solutions, and you can still use your "safe", existing technology for everything else."? Would not limiting one's initial engagement to developing impressive and cost effective tablet applications, at little risk to the client, serve as a nice inroad to that client's larger development plans? In this regard, I think Alpha's "highly" mobile strategy seems a good one (I define "highly" mobile as applications geared towards tablet use, not desktop use).
        Tom, you make valid points and you provide valuable input to this discussion!

        What I see as "desktop" is the stationary computer that sits on someone's desk. Despite of the examples you give, the majority of your employees will probably just sit behind a desk and does not walk around with an iPad. At least, typically that would be the bulk of a companies employees. Of course there will be top level executives running around from meeting to clients, from staff meetings to external offices. Now be honest: in terms of numbers, how do their number relate to the number of employees stationary behind a desk?

        Much of what you mention was always possible using a laptop or notebook. It will also be possible using a tablet. I do not deny that there is a market for tablets and a market for mobile, and I do not even deny it will grow. But there absolutely will be no future (at least I do not see that) where your typical employee works with only a tablet and runs around in your office building with it. In the business, we are probably talking about the substitution of the typical notebook user by the tablet user. In the past, our executive officers (myself included) would go into a board meeting with a notebook connected to the network by secured Wifi active in the building. The notebook would connect to any application just like the stationary desktop. It worked like a charm. A notebook is much more like a desktop: it has the same look and feel with regards to how you operate an application and it needs only very minor adjustments. A tablet is quite something else since it requires a completely new way of application design. That's a negative over a notebook. There have been notebooks with turnable keyboards that could instantly change into a tablet like device. Typically, a tablet will bring panel swiping and touch screen operations.

        I have no doubts that there will be a market for tablets. And I will not avoid developing for it when the opportunities are there. It is just that I do not see the tablet chasing the desktop away from the core of the company.

        Comment


          #79
          Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

          Tom

          I think we all agree that we need a game changer, what I doubt is that it will be mobile development. A nice feature set to be sure, but in truth for years you have been able to access the web and create programs for cell phones and tablets of all varieties. I know that to be true because I was doing it as far back as the Pocket PC and older BlackBerry platforms. So while this is may be new and much improved for Alpha Five, others have been developing for the mobile platform for some time.

          Clearly for those of us trying to 'eek' out some money from our Alpha development we need to find a way to move the platform forward. What that would look like at this stage is beyond me. The real issue to me is finding acceptance in the larger IT community; because in the end it (A5) is a great product and far - far better than many that are accepted. To me to gain that acceptance they need to see it.

          I know so many things have already been tried, any many on the forum would know about them. Still I look at the other platforms, many offer a stripped down or older version to introduce a potential user to the product, many have regional shows inviting developers to the learn about the new products, many have competitions to display the features and usability of the tools. Clearly there is some costs and risks to these things. But if the developer community supported such ventures by staffing, becoming so called product evangelists, and so on it would could pay off in huge benefits. There are many developers who have real expertise in the platform that could do these kinds of presentations. It would take some support form Alpha but not a whole lot. In the end supporting these kinds of effort would be in our best interests.

          I will go clean my office now... and then take a nap. I am sure I will be better when I wake up.. :)
          Regards,

          John W.
          www.CustomReportWriters.net

          Comment


            #80
            Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

            Of course there will be top level executives running around from meeting to clients, from staff meetings to external offices. Now be honest: in terms of numbers, how do their number relate to the number of employees stationary behind a desk?
            Those top level employees are the ones that have the most input when it comes time to change the working environment and the decisions toward what software is needed.

            I serviced a day trading company where one of the executives saw somebody at another one using 3 monitors on one computer and they all had to have one. My job was to make it happen on all the employees desks. That was no easy feat back in that age. Later, they decided they wanted access from home and I was called. That again, was no easy task in the 90's.

            I have already written a web for mobile site, it I separate from the regular page and was written only for one user. When alpha comes with their mobile, I think you find a difference in you web designs for the mobile user. Mine does not access data in any way, so I think it will be much different for alpha to do.

            Tom hit it on the nose that more and more mobile will be coming down the road. We in the alpha community can sit on the proverbial porch and watch the traffic or we can get out buts out in it and join the fun.

            I am getting asked for more and more in the auto industry. Just today(timing as it is), I got a call from a dealer about just what we are talking about. He has 2 internet managers that take notifications, emails, etc that have to be answered almost immediately. So far, they are set up at home and work with a quick notification to their cell phones. Dealer wants them equipped with some sort of tablet that they can do complete business wherever they are. That means ability to access inventory, ads, F&I software for sales and leasing, and sometimes be able to connect to the banking software. That is a lot. Some of the dealers need the ability to enter inventory while they are off premises as they do the purchase. I have the inventory thing already handled, but it could be better. There was mention of being able(for salespeople) to access their customer database while they are off the property(like while at dinner). They need a device from which to work, but they need the software to make it work. I'm also sure he wants his managers to be able to see what is going on to, but he did not mention it yet. I may have to get all the desktop app I have for them to the web. That is 29 dealers. They are required(by other companies) to have everything on a unix server. That could make it more fun for alpha.

            One of my dealers has a 9 person call center where they are able to answer all calls, emails, etc for his 6 dealerships. They do a lot of work and need to stay on top of the action way after regular working hours. He has been pestering me for a long time to rewrite their software into my own and wants a way to count the time his staff is at work on their off time so he can pay them properly.

            This is why Tom made such a good post here.
            Dave Mason
            [email protected]
            Skype is dave.mason46

            Comment


              #81
              Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

              Marcel, yes, most office employees will now and in the foreseeable future be sitting behind the desktop form factor to do their daily work. But, the majority of those people really only care about the collection and inputting of "data". The people that care about portability and accessing files on the go care about "information". The tablet is an information access tool. The fact that accessing information remotely has been available for quite awhile via laptops, "convertibles", Blackberry's or Pocket PC's is not, I believe, at all indicative that the tablet is not a game changer. Why? It's not the tablet, per se, it's the ever expanding and ever increasing speed and quality of the data networks carrying the information to the remote user, at ever more reasonable rates. The tablet is just a slick and convenient way to exploit that network.

              Marcel, let's use your earlier analogy of the 8-track system and the audio cassette. Your point was that the audio cassette won out for reasons other than sound quality, and became the market standard. What happened to the audio cassette? It was displaced by the CD, and the CD was not only replaced by the iPod, but it attracted legions of whole new customers to the very idea of high quality, portable music. I think the same is happening with portable information and tablets. This is why I suggest using Alpha's mobile prowess, especially as planned for v12, to possibly be the best opportunity to make inroads in otherwise Alpha ignorant markets.

              Comment


                #82
                Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                Hi Tom. I don't necessarily disagree with you on all counts. I too think sales of tablets will grow. And this will bring new opportunities for us. That I believe.
                It won't kill the desktop though. The question is, which development market will benefit from the growth of tablet sales.

                Frank Gillett (a Forrester analyst) says the following (and I quote):

                "Our casual estimate is that there will be 2bn PCs in use by 2016, despite growing tablet sales. That's because tablets only partially cannibalize PCs. Eventually tablets will slow laptop sales but increase sales of desktop PCs." Why? "Because many people, especially information workers, will still need conventional PCs for any intensely creative work at a desk that requires a large display or significant processing power."
                He also thinks that tablets sales will be blossoming that much because they are better then notebooks or desktops, but because they are more convenient.
                That however might not be a consideration in the business market that much as in the consumer market.

                There is no doubt: tablets sell, and they sell fast and in a growing number. So it will bring opportunities for developers. Question is how much market this will bring upon database applications. Figures show, that most tablets now have the same apps as the smartphones now. They are rather substitutes in that matter, hence they will turn the market in "personal computing". That I believe too.

                Businesses will evaluate the strengths of tablets and the typical characteristics to see what suites of software might bring benefits to the companies. Those strengths again must not necessarily be in the area of database applications. Data entry is a typical desktop function (as you mentioned) but data processing (work in the chain of information) is as well.

                Bottom line is, there will be a market, I don't dispute that, I simply dispute it will kill the desktop. Hence we will still be needing development power for the desktop as well. Taking all resources from that department might not be the way to go. You don't throw away old shoes before you have your new ones.

                Gartner has already said something about that. They think there are highly visible "quick wins" for developers in areas like: board books, sales automation, management dashboards, sales presentations and ordering systems. Things like that. Mostly areas where the mobility as a characteristic is a huge asset.

                The tablet will remain in the product-line: portable computer > laptop > notebook > smartphone > tablet > ??
                I think that is a distinctively different product line as the one that the Desktop PC is in.
                Which does not mean there is no interaction or common ground. Just as I can look at this forum using Tapatalk on my smartphone but will always prefer to do it with my desktop or notebook.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                  Interesting...I prefer to follow this forum on my tablet!

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                    Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
                    Interesting...I prefer to follow this forum on my tablet!
                    I think Marcel's point is that a tablet is a great consumption device. Two years ago I got my wife an I-Pad 2 for her birthday. She loves it! Uses it every single day. It's a very slick device. Yes, tablets and their brethren are cool, for sure. Great for surfing the web, email, all kinds of apps, GPS/map locating etc etc. Even useful in business for select activities - kind of like a digital clipboard. But I can tell you that I would not want to develop an A5 app on an IPad. Nor would I even want to write a report on one, nor create/manipulate a spreadsheet, etc. Tablets and mobile devices are great, but desktops and laptops and large screen monitors are essential work horses.

                    A non-alpha developer that I work with has 4-large screen monitors on one machine and two laptops functioning as his work environment. Tough to squeeze all that into a tablet. Tomorrow tablets or their off-spring may project holograms and rely entirely on voice commands, but in the mean time...
                    Peter
                    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                    [email protected]
                    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                    Comment


                      #85
                      Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                      Hear hear.
                      Clients tend to have lofty ideas of what knowledge their reps can have instantly at their fingertips. "Imagine just being able to touch a little screen and have miraculous things happen". Unless you can show them how impractical it is in reality you come off sounding incapable or negative.
                      I had a client who commissioned a new system to replace mine (after 12 years) on the vendor's promise of one with handhelds doing the business end.
                      They went insolvent last December. Simply put - the accounts and stores people were subversively (paying my meagre license fee, against management orders) running my system and trying to semi-manually put information on the new system. They had to cut staff to pay for this and actually needed more to maintain the second.

                      Two systems for different purposes would have been more practical - cost, cost ,cost and which is the more vital?
                      Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 12-02-2012, 03:13 AM.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                        Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                        I think Marcel's point is that a tablet is a great consumption device. Two years ago I got my wife an I-Pad 2 for her birthday. She loves it! Uses it every single day. It's a very slick device. Yes, tablets and their brethren are cool, for sure. Great for surfing the web, email, all kinds of apps, GPS/map locating etc etc. Even useful in business for select activities - kind of like a digital clipboard. But I can tell you that I would not want to develop an A5 app on an IPad. Nor would I even want to write a report on one, nor create/manipulate a spreadsheet, etc. Tablets and mobile devices are great, but desktops and laptops and large screen monitors are essential work horses.

                        A non-alpha developer that I work with has 4-large screen monitors on one machine and two laptops functioning as his work environment. Tough to squeeze all that into a tablet. Tomorrow tablets or their off-spring may project holograms and rely entirely on voice commands, but in the mean time...
                        I bow my head to you. That is where you can see what is one's native language or not. Writing English is one thing, but expressing oneself as clearly as you did above is something different. I obviously did not manage to do that . But that's indeed what my point was!

                        Tomorrow tablets or their off-spring may project holograms and rely entirely on voice commands, but in the mean time...
                        Tomorrow we might even have robots doing the developing for us that do not even need "a device" to do it.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                          Originally posted by TPeterson View Post
                          Interesting...I prefer to follow this forum on my tablet!
                          I could tell from the small posts!

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                            Marcel, that is really funny and certainly would be true if I did have to post from my tablet! Gentlemen...I STIPULATE now and forever, a tablet without a keyboard and pointing device is NO SUBSTITUTE for a traditional desktop setup when it comes to developing, writing, or doing most productive computing work. But, that has never been my point anyway. My earlier focus on the tablet was simply the following...

                            1) Starting with the purpose of this thread, which is that some Alpha developers, EU especially, find it extremely difficult to compete with existing, well known platforms. The tablet, or an otherwise mobile platform, MAY provide an inroad...the crack in the wall from which a larger opening can be made (I probably shouldn't make a prison analogy while supporting Alpha).

                            2) Alpha has developed, and seems to be improving, it's capacity to develop really good mobile solutions. Is this an extra arrow in the quiver of Alpha developers? I think yes. Does it allow for a complete solution to be written for handhelds? Probably not, but let's not take one example of a bad outcome and extrapolate it as the norm.

                            3) An Alpha mobile application does not need to be, initially, a really expensive project, nor an institutional commitment to Alpha, i.e., proof of concept should be relatively painless.

                            4) Senior level managers/executives finally have a tool, i.e., the tablet, that can conveniently (small, light form factor), quickly (instant on, fast data networks) and elegantly (large enough screen, touch controls, etc.) allow them to consume all manner of relevant information while traveling, at home, or on the 7th tee box. The BONUS here is that senior level managers/executives, as Dave M pointed out, also make spending decisions, and they probably already know how to use one...Angry Birds, the Kindle app, checking bank balances, etc.

                            5) Mobile use will continue to grow...I believe very substantially. Again, why? Primarily the improving data networks, but also the improvements in the hardware and software, e.g., Windows 8, and the Surface Pro with Intel chips, "projected holograms with voice control", etc.

                            I DON'T believe developers in this difficult position can rely on Alpha, the company, to commit the necessary large sums of marketing dollars to make corporate IT departments suddenly open to Alpha. So, they need to rely on themselves and whatever bit of advantage Alpha may give them. I'm sure there are other things to be done as a group to help the situation, but nothing that will help someone making a pitch next week.

                            Marcel, this post was written using my laptop!
                            Last edited by TPeterson; 12-02-2012, 02:23 PM. Reason: lest someone take me seriously!

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                              Marcel,

                              From my perspective, it's not about what hardware one's software creations are running on and how proficient one is at selling them, but the method in which they are deployed and delivered.

                              Executable vs Browser.

                              My clients want browser, for reasons that have been discussed "to death" here and elsewhere.

                              Therefore, the next question is:

                              Proprietary vs open standards.

                              This is where the "Alpha Issue" comes into play for me.

                              Do I bet my "development farm" on a company whose product creates output that can only be used on their proprietary server, or do I go with one whose output will run on "anything".

                              I have no problem whatsoever getting my work into wherever I have attempted to do so, regardless of what was used to create it. If one can't do that, then perhaps one should be in a different line of work

                              What keep me awake at night (other than the gallons of coffee I have consumed the preceding day) is whether or not I'll get a connection when I go to activate another instance of WAS!

                              Cheers!
                              Lyle
                              Cheers!
                              Lyle Chamney
                              http://www.2ninerniner2.com/
                              Websites rebuilt with WordPress
                              http://goodcheapfastwebsites.com/
                              Complete, ready to install WordPress websites
                              http://snifflevalve.com
                              WordPress training and tutorials

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

                                Indeed, if one wants to get to the bottom of why Alpha Five is still not even close to being on the menu of the professional development industry, one can not past the reasoning that the proprietary character of Alpha's products have something to do with that. On the other hand, anything is to some extend proprietary. Not to be smart, but is it not too simple to call anything labeled Microsoft "market standard"? What exactly is that, "market standard" ? When it depends on Microsoft, it surely does not mean independent of anything.... But, back to reasoning.

                                I know for a fact, that the professional development industry has many concerns when the subject is the choice of a development platform or development products. One of those is indeed the proprietary character that a product may have. This also has many faces: products designed with Alpha Five do not only depend on Alpha Five web server, they also for their continuity depend on Alpha Software Inc. Which is a 2 man company and in it's core maybe even a one man company. The industry tends to weigh things like "continuity" upon deciding for any development platform. I know that, I have been in those discussions which tend to get more vicious when the educational level of the attendants rises. In case of Alpha Five it may just take one car accident including both directors from Alpha and who knows what will happen to the company and its products. With no knowledge of any business continuity plans in place or the extend to which they might reach, those who take decisions in businesses do have a hard time deciding for such companies. Not when only minor products or interests are concerned, but when for instance a bank needs a completely new back office I bet you it is not going to choose any Alpha Five product for that. No matter how good that product may be. Should they decide to do that nevertheless, they will be nailed against the wall by it's competition at the first possibility.

                                It is not, that Alpha has to sit there powerless. Outsystems for example has the same problem. But they managed to get functions included that can export everything of any product created by their development platform into the defacto market standard with just pushing a button! So, let's assume you have your complete business process automated using Outsystems and the company shuts down, you just "push the button" and move the complete product to a .NET environment!

                                This might be a better strategy for Alpha to improve their future position then to access yet another section of application programming (mobile): add a complete exporting facility that will convert ANY complete Alpha Five application that can possibly be made with it with the push of a button to complete C# (almost impossible if you ask me given the fact that Object Oriented programming is something structurally different from any basic dialect). However, that might be enough to get Alpha Five into consideration of the professional industry.

                                The business end of Alpha Five is not yet completely thought out. We, as developers, are confronted with the results in every days market circumstances. One would think, that finding a creative solution to those problems that lift all users out of that should have priority above accessing yet another market sections where exactly the same problem will doubtlessly appear again with exactly the same results. You can't just outrun all problems. Sometimes you need to make a stand and actually SOLVE them.

                                For now however, we as developers also need to think deep about how we can improve the game for ourselves. Mobile may bring a new market, it won't solve the acceptation issues since those issues are not relying on how smart your product is. History has shown us that much.
                                Last edited by mronck; 12-02-2012, 02:17 PM.

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