Version 12?

[mronck]

Re: Version 12?

Hi Tom,

You make valid points!

...First, Alpha is looking to attract new customers, not just keep what they have...

When pushing the new "subscription only" Plan, they even might loose what they have now. That should level out the looking for "new" customers I think.

...instead of waiting six to nine months down the road to purchase a newly released version...

Alpha of course is excited about their product. As a matter of fact, so am I. However, they don't need to wait 6 months to release new functionality now either. There actually IS the option of updating available. Updates could become available at a price as well. You don't need a completely new subscription model to do just that. They now have just "Patches". Why not include "Updates"?

...They're in a very competitive environment...

That is true. So why endangering your current customer base? I don't see the point in that.

They're in a very competitive environment and need to keep improving.

Sure. But you see, in the end it is all about "income". Money pays the salaries and the rent. So that needs to be there. And that is your ultimate drive to perform. Everybody knows, that if that motivation is pushed to the back, performance will go down as a matter of fact. If your salary is paid at the end of the month, no matter what you achieve, then the pressure to achieve just is less. If you need the money at the end of the month, and you will only get it if you perform, then pressure is high. With that I do not say that Alpha won't feel any pressure to achieve when in a subscription system. It just is less, because the monthly security evens the risk out smoothly. It is not for nothing they are after the subscription system in the first place. Why would you think they would want that?

Bottom line for me is, that I am not against Alpha exploiting new sales models. I am even not against "subscription" as a system.
I am against the ONE choice: ALL or NOTHING.

That is an option that does not fit into nowadays competitive environment at all. I already gave the example of the developer who only uses the Developer license and now has to "upgrade" to the "complete package" which will increase his costs by a shocking 1832 percent! Now, what is "competitive" about that? Since when does Mercedes Benz only sell its 600 model ?

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Version 12?

need : Why would Alpha need to do that? Based on what obligation?

Alpha's promise...read below...

Major Releases : Which would mean you are saying they did not yet deliver what you purchased and that the lacking functionality is even huge?
it's not complete : As opposed to WHAT exactly? What defines "complete"? Is there a delivery manifest on v11 we all agreed upon?

Alpha said that both mobile and IIS would be in v11. I think that is what irritates many people.

V11 and V12 are two different things requiring a new or revised subscription : Why would it need a new or revised subscription?

Actually, I renewed my (v11) subscription because Alpha said the next release (v12) will be included in that subscription.

It helps to think there is only one copy of Alpha, and that is the current copy that is kept in a hermetically sealed mayonnaise jar on the front porch (bonus points for anyone getting that reference).

Ok, Pat. I don't think I get any bonus points. mayo sitting on your front porch goes rancid and becomes toxic in a few hours (unless it's the middle of winter).
You lost me there?

As a user, stop any time. As a developer, stay on the subscription.

I'm in the same boat.

However, should I upgrade to v12 I WILL NOT have a permanent license, and my right to use ends if my subscription ends. This was made clear to me.

I don't believe that. I think you were misinformed. If one of the sales guys told you that, don't believe it. If you have v12 they're not going to somehow magically disable that because your subscription expired. No way. Ain't gonna happen.

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Version 12?

Carnac the Magnificent. (aka Johnny Carson)

Probably spoken by Ed McMahon - the sidekick of sidekicks..

[TPeterson]

Re: Version 12?

Hi Marcel,

I'm not saying the subscription pricing doesn't raise issues, particularly for smaller developers, just that I don't think it will effect enhancements in functionality.

Peter, I hope you're right, but I asked very specifically. I could have opted for a one year, pre-paid subscription for $699, which would give me all the v11 feature packs, plus the right to upgrade to v12, and use all of its new feature packs, when available. I guess it seemed reasonable to me that for $699 I wasn't promised all the v12 developer rights and feature packs in perpetuity. Is it your understanding that once your subscription expires you get continued use of everything, but that you no longer have rights to upgrades, including bug fixes? Regarding "magically disabling", isn't there a quick license check when opening Alpha Five that could indeed prevent usage?

[DaveM]

Re: Version 12?

If the gist is as read by me, I would not ever sign up for a subscription as it appears.

Lets use 100.00 a month at 24 months is $2400.00 based on 2 years for a new version where ala-carte gives the desktop windows programmer all he really needs to go forward. Most developers here will use web or desktop, not both. Either should be able to do fine with an expenditure of 500 + - for a version, where as someone that uses both should be fine at or about 900.00 for a version. If alpha comes with a new version every 2 years, the subscription is very expensive in comparison.

vs another one from a competitor at 47.00 a month that is for extra help and some extras. The whole platform(including server) is totally free if you wish to use it that way. If the subscription is dropped, you still have the product to use as you will. This is just one!

This is why I chose the ala-carte.

Let me say, if you are hooked into alpha and have a good business running based on alpha(both desktop and web) with some packages, you are better off with the subscription to get what you need to perpetuate your business. I don't believe the subscription will change with the coming of v12. My business sense says that Alpha would be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so. I'm sure they have the loaded gun to do that, but good sense will be a great deterrent due to the sure pain that will follow.

I believe that most(maybe 90%) would like to see the subscription done away with or severely revamped. I base that on the continual threads that have been used for talking about it. No one seems to know all the facts about it, which means it was never set down where anyone could read how it works at anytime. I hope someone could enlighten me if I am wrong on this.

The biggest app I am working on cannot use alpha or many of the other software companies we would all be able to use which forces me elsewhere. If the web apps could be sent to c# or something similar, it would be a huge bonus for me and would eliminate the need for the WAS overhead. OH YEAH!

[mronck]

Re: Version 12?

I think that not bringing clarity about the upcoming pricing model is a mistake. Especially if what you ARE doing is telling in your marketing mails that you will not be able to get any more updates etc without the subscription. So we do get "warnings" but what we don't get is "clear information". I can tell you that I am not going to decide ANYTHING regarding future purchases unless this clarity is given. I am not going to invest anymore in this product, unless I am absolutely certain I will be able to keep using it in the near future. If someone instills reasonable doubt in my mind, I am coming to a dead stop, money-investing-wise. That's how I personally am interpreting those "warnings".
On the other hand I simply can't imagine that the Rabins brothers would be throwing away good money. I think they WILL come up with a solution in the end that will both save the small developer and SOHO user for the company and still is able to bring the subscription advantages and the new customers. It is not uncommon for Alpha Software however to wait with their final decisions/information to the customer to until just before launch. In between, they are sniffing the opinions on the board as "input" I am sure.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Version 12?

I could have opted for a one year, pre-paid subscription for $699, which would give me all the v11 feature packs, plus the right to upgrade to v12, and use all of its new feature packs, when available.

$699? I paid $999! Geeze!

Is it your understanding that once your subscription expires you get continued use of everything, but that you no longer have rights to upgrades, including bug fixes?

I'm not 100% clear. I do believe, absolutely, you can continue to use the product forever. Not sure about the bug fixes, but I believe so. If currently you don't have a subscription can't you still download patches? The only thing you don't get are FPs & "subscriber benefits" - those obscure pieces of functionality mostly buried in dialogs (at least so far anyway).

Regarding "magically disabling", isn't there a quick license check when opening Alpha Five that could indeed prevent usage?

I suppose if Alpha wanted to they could prevent you from moving a WAS license from server A to server B, since they require you to "login". But I don't believe they have that right nor do I think it's in the license agreement.

[TPeterson]

Re: Version 12?

If currently you don't have a subscription can't you still download patches?

Yes, I could before I paid for the subscription. But, if Alpha does away with "versions", then updating for patches would be difficult for expired subscriptions. In that scenario, Alpha would need to keep track of the date each separate license expired to make sure they're only getting the fixes/patches up to a certain date, and not new features, or patches for new subsequent features. Not exactly sure how they would do that.

[peteconway]

Re: Version 12?

$699? I paid $999! Geeze!

I pay $1140 - I'm going to use a different deodorant.

[TPeterson]

Re: Version 12?

I had already paid $599 in November, 2011, for a v11 bundle, which included four feature packs and the WAS. Hopefully, that makes you guys feel a little better!

[Bill Griffin]

Re: Version 12?

I believe that most(maybe 90%) would like to see the subscription done away with or severely revamped. I base that on the continual threads that have been used for talking about it.

Since there seem to be about a dozen or so people contribution to these continual threads, I guess that Alpha does not have that many customers?. I really think that Alpha would be the only people who could throw valid stats about subs. I also would think that if, as you say, 90% would like the subscription done away with, there would not be a subscription.

PS I have and will continue to have a subscription. I guess that makes me a 10 percenter.

[JetLi]

Re: Version 12?

Richard, gave me a license for alpha five developer for free. I will try to continue diving in to alpha five.

[Paullm]

Re: Version 12?

I recently upgraded from A5 version 7 to version 11.

I’m not that concerned about Version 12 and “subscription only”, as I think that has been floated mainly as a trial balloon. From my perspective, the fat lady has not yet sung and I foresee some future back-peddling by Alpha Software, to avoid alienating/losing many existing small developers … including myself … who will NEVER go the subscription-only route.

Subscription software may work for the large corporates with deep pockets, but I don’t think there are currently enough of those users [alone] to sustain Alpha’s existence. Apart from the corporate user logos on the Alpha home page, I never see or hear anything (testimonials, posts on this forum, etc.) from those users.

If there were more large companies using A5, we would be hearing about it and that “buzz” would also create less of a resistance from other corporations to try it.

Large companies tend to take a “safety-in-numbers” approach when choosing their development platforms. That's understandable. If I’m going to bet my corporate IT career/future ... maybe even the whole company’s existence ... on a relatively unknown “thingy” [development tool], I need to be absolutely sure of a successful outcome! Failing that, I'm just going to use what everyone else is using, regardless of whether or not it's the best-possible tool for my particular situation.

Predictions may indeed indicate a “mobile future”, but there is and will be enough work out there that does not need to encompass a “mobile” interface. For that work, Version 11 will do just fine!

[peteconway]

Re: Version 12?

Mobile might be the future for Alpha in development but it's the present with users as they use it everyday as part of the device. Serious catch-up is needed if that's the game. I agree about he the absence of big players as developers, it's the elephant in the the room. On the Mobile, I would have thought presenting client data to a mobile device is the priority - not full on data entry -my clients require to deliver information in the main, not collect it, this stepped approach would certainly help things along in my view.

[pettechservices]

Re: Version 12?

There are probably several of us who sit in silence simply because we don't know what to think about Alpha right now... I'm about 6 months into my subscription, and I honestly don't think I want to keep it.. Its good software, but seeing so many frustrated that have been around for so long, I don't have a great feeling..