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The Immortality of the PC

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    #31
    Re: The Immortality of the PC

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    Marcel,

    Please accept my apology for the ignorance displayed in my previous posts. Let me also thank you for the information you provided along with the patience displayed. The information you provided was found to be quite interesting.

    With a last name of Pasma you probably know where some of my ancestors came from and this might explain some of my hardheadedness.
    An apology is (of couse) not needed at all. This is a discussion forum, and you are welcome to discuss things no matter what opinion you have. As far as the hardheadedness goes, you might have quite a bit "to learn" from some of the other posters around here myself not excluded . Discussing options, possible futures and exchanging ideas is always exciting, not "to be right" but more "to learn" in a more broad perspective.

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    I am still not sold on the idea of people using retina projecting glasses in place of monitors. One of the links you provided mentioned they would not be practical while walking around and is currently only being used in industrial environments.
    That may be true, however I don't see myself entering business data whilst running around with a tablet either. There is a point where you need to sit down somewhere and do your thing. I suppose you can take a call "on the move", even text a message that does not need much thought, but I can't see people entering business data that need attention and dedication whilst they also participate in traffic, walk or ride. So taking a seat and do your thing is almost a necessity in all of the mobile solutions hence it can hardly be a negative thing coupled to retina projecting options for personal computing, as I see it that is.....

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    They already sell cables to connect smart phones and tablets to monitors, and perhaps a wireless connection if not available will be so soon. There may also be some other type of portable projection available that would provide the equivalent of monitor performance.

    A wireless keyboard and mouse might be also be available. But now the issue of portability might become an issue. If much typing is required, an ergonomic keyboard with a wrist support is preferred by many people. Typing on a flat surface for any length of time is not going to practical for many people. Dictation replacing the keyboard will work for some people, but not all, me being one of them.
    Sure. Those are all characteristics that set "personal computing" apart from "a personal computer": giving people more options to use a wide range of devices in varying circumstances so that they be able to use what they think will do the job best.

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    Dual monitors have become more common where I work and it is suspected, it might be a while before a tablet or smart phone is going to be able to provide this much flexible and viewable data.
    That indeed is one of the things I have said many times: the future usage of mobile devices will be largely dependable on the features extended solutions will have to offer and that is in addition to the very limited options available right now. What is available NOW is hardly enough to get the more demanding computing jobs done. The most simple way I can say it seems to be that mobile solutions need to have MORE of anything: more processing power, more connectivity, more screensize, more adjustability, more.......

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    Here again is the question asked in my last two posts that has gone unanswered: How could people doing software development here see the PC being replaced with a tablet or other mobile device in the near future even with the wildest improvements imagined? To answer my own question, most of the software and processing would be cloud based minimizing the hardware required for the portable device. Working at a desk would still be there along with the ability to move. Would the ability to move be required or helpful?
    .

    I hear you. My personal answer would also be: it will not be replaced AT ALL. Mobility is a great thing, but it is not relevant under all conditions. Some jobs require personal presence at a desk pur sang, or because of the sheer superiority of desk based hardware compared to the tiny winy mobile devices we currently have. But I would say the main issue here is not whether developers themselves would go mobile for developing software, but rather whether their services as professional developers will be directed towards the mobile device user in future much more as it is now. In other words: will they be developing for the mobile device in the future where they are developing for the desktop NOW.

    Mobile is coming. That's a fact of life. Question however is not whether it's coming or not, but how invasive the mobile device in business computing will become. People tend to differ in opinion about that very much. And when you look more closely, vented opinions of major players are varying from time to time, taking care not to disturb their own interests with their sometimes reality challenged statements of what is going to happen. Those are not specifically predictions maybe as attempts to steer the crowd into a certain movement on the market. Dangerous if you ask me, since it can rapidly turn against you.

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    As far as this discussion going off on a tangent, it probably has regarding what is going to be the death of the PC. Improvements in hardware are probably only a small part of what is going to be the demise of the PC. It is the applications that can be run more effectively on a portable device than a desktop that is going to be the killer. Perhaps someone here could provide some examples of what they have seen or developed in this regard.
    Make no mistake: the pc is not going anywhere at least for the next decade. It wouldn't even be possible if you look at the massive investment that would be coupled with such a major exchange of devices. If any, their will be an ongoing exchange to other devices. But I do not think personal computers and mobile devices are even in the same league. Their are completely different animals that have completely different bosses. I think a direct comparison between mobile devices and personal computers is a rookie mistake. Something like comparing automobiles with motorcycles simply because they both have an Otto-motor and can bring you somewhere.
    It is a very unrefined way of looking at things, and if anything, we can learn from the past history that life does not take such unrefined paths at all.
    On a personal note I think that computing will become more connected and computing power will be concentrated at places where it can be organised best. The world wide investments in data centers are rising with staggering figures. That is not without reason. As you also pointed out: the cloud becomes more interesting on a daily basis as prices go lower and performance goes up. I can see a future where computing is connected with centralized "data power houses" using whatever device fits your needs at a certain point, being it a mobile device, a laptop, a smartphone, a personal computer, WHATEVER.

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    Being ahead of the curve is what is required with any software development company for survival. Alpha Software has repeatedly demonstrated this ability over the years, and its direction towards the web with less emphasis on the desktop side when considering this is hard to question.
    Considering my last statement that desktops are not going to go anywhere soon (which by the way is also the vision of Alpha Software as they have repeatedly stated!!) I beg to differ with your last remark. The desktop is currently owned ground for Alpha. They have a vast number of customers there. Which business school teaches you to not take care of the needs of current customers??

    Originally posted by RRTRACKS View Post
    As far as being a model citizen I have already demonstrated my ability to provide opinions with errors. If you do not make mistakes you cannot learn, unless you learn from the mistakes of others, and this is much harder than advertised. This was just a silly comment.

    People here sometime seem to act as if there is a ridged format they are afraid of. Rules are worthless if they lack the flexibility common sense gives to think outside the box.

    All the Best,
    Rich
    Very much so indeed Rich. Completely true. But those are just "statements". What matters is not the statement you make, but what you actually DO with it in real life. Nice discussing with you, thanks for that!

    Comment


      #32
      Re: The Immortality of the PC

      People "way overestimate" the capabilities of "smart phones." (Which are inherently quite "stupid" I might add.) ~ They are still largely entertainment toys, designed for consuming. Same thing goes for tablets. (Which may change very soon, but only because Windows-7 will be fully supported.) ~ Here you're merely talking "form factor" in terms of size.

      This is all semantics. ~ It's about miniaturization. But since "size does certainly matter" (in terms of screen an peripherals in this context), "in the real world" there is little to worry about! (I don't suspect anyone would argue that it's absurd to try and run and develop using Alpha 5 on a 7 inch tablet, given the screen size!) This same logic applies to playing video games too. Flat screens are huge, and a 42 inch set (or larger) is now very common. ~ And although a good set of highly magnified reading glasses and a 1920 x 1200 screen might solve everything (in terms of working on a table), it (still) doesn't address the need for a full size & usable keyboard.... ~Smaller still has to be practical, and "being too small" simply isn't! (And we're not at the point of being able to be "jacked into the matrix.") ~ Not quite yet anyways.....
      This is all just hype about trying to sell new gadgets to consumers. Business systems, servers & notebooks are not going anywhere....
      The economy is flat (at best), and (thanks to) Moore's law, we don't need to buy PC's & notebooks anymore just because OS overhead is killing productivity.

      Unfortunately, what society may temporarily end up with is a bunch of virtually illiterate people wearing "bling" & $200 sneakers, walking around this planet with "smart-phones" in their hands. (Who don't know how/don't need to spell properly, because their life is all about "texting and shortcuts.") ~ This type of lifestyle can't support these users long-term (much less you the developer) so the cycle has to end somewhere........

      ....Nevertheless, since everyone want's to play, be entertained & text (while driving I might add)..... Corporations are all about "feeding this gadget frenzy." (Many of which I might add are tied into service plans which are all about "perpetual cash flows.") ~ Just like "Alpha's 2k ($ annually) subscription plan"..... Hmmmmmm......

      What needs to change (and is changing) is the way we interact with computers though. (keyboards / mice, etc...) Case in point: I pre-ordered one of these last winter. (Which supposedly should be shipping very soon.) If it works as promised, I won't need to jump from keyboard to mouse. In fact I won't need a mouse....

      https://leapmotion.com/ <-- This "mouse replacement" looks rather "promising", check it out!

      I probably should have also added this: Unfortunately "aging eyes" don't work so well with small screens (either).....

      "That's my story, & I'm sticking to it." -RWT
      Last edited by SNusa; 02-05-2013, 10:48 AM.
      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

      Comment


        #33
        Re: The Immortality of the PC

        I just looked at the leap product. I simply don't believe it works, I don't believe it is that small and I don't believe it could be that cheap, and I don't believe it can work on any monitor.
        I am not a believer. It just sounds too good to be true, and mostly in such cases it turns out to actually BE not true.
        Would however be gobsmacked if it was and did all of that for that little money. Absolutely 100 percent amazed. Tell me if you get it, and whether it worked or not?

        Back to topic. So what you actually wanted to say was: "you developer-dudes are all illiterate if you want to develop for those funky gadgets without a possibility to support yourselves long term and do so with a subscription plan tied into this that actually is there to provide "perpetual cash flow" to Alpha Software" ?

        OK. Now seriously. I like your style. And for most of it I agree with your opinion as well. BUT. "Bread & Games" has been there as a serious policy to take care of since the Romans, and it still has its meaning. The Games change, the policy doesn't. And if the crowd needs device X as its game, so be it. Give it to them and try to make a buck out of it. We have earned millions and millions of dollars on text messaging in the past years, and we will probably continue to do so in the future, added to it the enhanced traffic to IM products like Facebook and the likes of them. Yes, it ruins the language capabilities of the crowd. But hey, were they actually much of an added value to begin with?

        Furthermore, there WILL be a spring-off for business use in these devices. There WILL be money in it although opinions vary wildly about the size of that. However, let's get out of it what is in it. If it delivers a healthy revenue....

        Comment


          #34
          Re: The Immortality of the PC

          "a bunch of virtually illiterate people wearing "bling" & $200 sneakers, walking around this planet with "smart-phones" in their hands. (Who don't know how/don't need to spell properly, because their life is all about "texting and shortcuts.") ~ This type of lifestyle can't support these users long-term (much less you the developer) so the cycle has to end somewhere........"

          Spot on, sad but very true, I think the UK is rapidly catching up as well... Much as I am tempted, I am not sure I should comment on your Alpha subscription observation, they may kick me off once and for all...

          Slightly off topic:
          Every day I use Alpha, now in a more thorough productive way, I find something new to love about it. Even if I don't agree with their mobile push there really is so much to admire about the other aspects of the Alpha product. As some will know, I am still looking at alternatives, but so far progress has been slow in respect of matching up to Alpha. Only on the look and feel side (web in particular) can I score any points against so far.

          Back on topic: the link Robert provided is interesting, but I struggle to see a workplace use for the masses.

          JMO

          Comment


            #35
            Re: The Immortality of the PC

            I'll "keep you posted" Marcel. The reason I actually "bought into this product" as being plausible is: Microsoft's X-box (I don't play or own one) "spacial recognition" peripheral. ~ The one that works in a similar fashion, by watching and responding to the players movements. (Kinect?)

            I always think (notes to myself): "If Microsoft can do it, either they either got the idea/capability elsewhere, or someone else can/has already done it better?!?!"
            (Same reasoning was applied when I chose to develop skills with a4/a5 instead of MS Dev. Studio I might add.)
            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

            Comment


              #36
              Re: The Immortality of the PC

              Originally posted by pulsoft View Post
              Spot on, sad but very true, I think the UK is rapidly catching up as well... Much as I am tempted, I am not sure I should comment on your Alpha subscription observation, they may kick me off once and for all...
              Hi Paul;

              I don't see that happening. (the being kicked off part at least) Besides: I never said there was anything wrong with making $$$ that way! (It may have been "implied", but in fact, profitability it's a good and necessary thing. (They're smart in what they are doing, providing the user base is willing to follow suit. (and stick with it) ~ I'm just not totally convinced that they haven't pushed too far too fast without a "solid game plan" for the future. (the long-term future)

              I'll even go so far as to state: It doesn't matter whether the owners of a5 (or anyone for that matter) have a BA degree or not. (Not taking anything away from them here, because it's a huge accomplishment that requires much discipline and commitment!) Bottom line though: For R&R, who are highly accomplished & successful business owners, "it's merely a piece of paper." (reflecting their past commitments and accomplishments) ~ I have a BS degree in business entrepreneurship from Babson, which I commonly joke is an acronym for "Bull-Sh....." Why I see it this way? (Just look at Bill Gates, the late Steve Jobs, Zuckerberg, or Dell for that matter.) ~ All "drop-outs" without degrees and look how things turned out for them. I'm doing fine, but my biz degree never did that for me, not like it did for those remarkable success stories/examples.) ~ And I worked hard (really hard) to get to where I am today!
              PS: I have no intentions of spending another $1k+ to renew my subscription next time around. Too expensive in terms of the benefits I presently receive. If I were billing out 20k annually I might think differently, but I'm not. Until such a time exists, renewal has got to be below $1k for me to justify renewal for the sake of maintaining my "Charter Subscription. (Regardless of whatever the added value of this "Charter Subscription" actually still represents?!?!) ~ For what it's worth, I doubt I'm alone here. (And that's what really concerns me long-term.) ~ How many subscribers are there who are also generating the $$ "perpetually", and can thus justify the expense associated with maintaining an annual subscription? ~ And the real "kicker" is (somehow): "The next a5 email deal" always appears to somehow be better than "the offer that just expired!" (You'd at least think that Alpha sales would stop sending these "redundant" ads to existing active subscribers... ~ Without doubt, the offers have a negative impact in this scenario!)

              ~My mind is always "thinking business." ~ "Strength/weakness/threats/opportunity" (Which pretty much sums my thought process in these four words.)
              Note: The first part of your reply (the "sad but very true problem") is everywhere, and getting worse quickly. And unfortunately (yet very predictable), this scenario will continue to deteriorate, until society literally "caves in" around the "generations to come.") ~ VERY SAD & AVOIDABLE! (Avoidable only if people/society realize the consequences of their choices before it's "too late!") ~ Deadline approaching fast!
              Last edited by SNusa; 02-05-2013, 12:18 PM.
              Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
              It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
              RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

              Comment


                #37
                Re: The Immortality of the PC

                You know what will happen when "The PC is Dead?" ~ I do!
                You'll go out and replace the one that "just died" with another more powerful one!
                (Only thinner & lighter. Plus, you'll get "more bang for the buck" when you do. ~ PM me when I'm proven wrong!)
                Last edited by SNusa; 02-05-2013, 12:13 PM.
                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: The Immortality of the PC

                  Picture this: 2 girls are waiting on the train and sitting right beside each other on a bench. Each busy with her smartphone. No talking. One would almost think, they don't know each other. But after a while it turns out they were whatsapping to each other on the phone instead of talking..... how much more poor will social contacts in this society get?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: The Immortality of the PC

                    Originally posted by mronck View Post
                    picture this: 2 girls are waiting on the train and sitting right beside each other on a bench. Each busy with her smartphone. No talking. One would almost think, they don't know each other. But after a while it turns out they were whatsapping to each other on the phone instead of talking..... How much more poor will social contacts in this society get?
                    Exactly!
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: The Immortality of the PC

                      Using chopsticks to play Angry Birds was kinda cool...
                      Robin

                      Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

                      Comment

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