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Thread: Attention Desktop Developers

  1. #31
    Member jkwrpc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Bob - thanks for taking the time to do this, we all (including Alpha) will hopefully benefit from your work.

    I am not sure where I should add new suggestions.

    For example, I would like to see unbound forms adds. Right now myself and others create a dummy or empty table so we can create a blank form to hold objects such as buttons, etc. It would be nice to not have a create a table to have an empty form object.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    John,

    For example, I would like to see unbound forms adds. Right now myself and others create a dummy or empty table so we can create a blank form to hold objects such as buttons, etc. It would be nice to not have a create a table to have an empty form object.
    I think you can do it with xdialog

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by johnkoh View Post
    I think you can do it with xdialog
    You can create a "button" in an xdialog. But you can't then copy that "button" to a form - which is what I believe he is asking.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    I use the blank form like a canvas to hold other objects to code against. I simply would like to see an unbound form, that is - a form not associated to or with a particular table to be created and used in the application. It should not be a too hard to add such a feature.


    I find xDialog while powerful not a RAD tool. When I have worked with it I feel like I am back to using a text editor and the programming language. To be honest its takes me back to writing console apps in C++, Pascal, or Basic. I know this will offend some, but apart from its power its just not very friendly. I fail to see at this stage of Alpha Five, soon to be v12, why xDialog functionality has not be rolled into xBasic, and xDialog given the boot. It would be nice to have single code base. All that is off topic and there are those who will disagree. S

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    i wish the A5 default database would be like sql.
    "Knowledge without application is useless."

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Whitaker View Post
    For anybody who is interested in this thread I have started a new thread with the results enclosed.

    Bob
    Note that someone merged it into this thread as Post #29.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Like Ray Lyons,

    A form is a from, a browse is a browse and and as long one does not use a browse for data entry, a form (mine at least) is not "inherently flawed" and does not fall apart when stressed
    I do about the same. I do us some Xdialogs. They are a bit harder though.

    Bob, Steve,

    Asked but I did not see it in the list: Why Desktop? 1. Why Not 2. Ever try to get web support at a Race track in the boon docks?( I do have a race car setup app). 3. Ever try to convince an old savy car dealer that his inventory, customer base, payment tracking, etc. will be housed on a server anywhere but own inside his business location?
    Dave Mason
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
    I give up (almost!). A form is a from, a browse is a browse and and as long one does not use a browse for data entry, a form (mine at least) is not "inherently flawed" and does not fall apart when stressed
    I am sorry, but I see this as a way too simplified statement.

    To begin with, you mention a limitation in the use of the browse that (if honored) would make the browse not fall apart when stressed. This limitation would be the use of the browse for data entry. However, this limitation is not stated anywhere in the product, and at no moment in history Alpha has claimed that the browse could not be used for data entry, or should better not be used for data entry. So the pure fact that it, in your eyes, should better not be used for data entry is proof in itself that there is an "inherent flaw" in that technology.

    I can remember being send out to my customer by my engineers a very very long time ago, when I just started in the industry, for a demonstration of the software at the customers office. The engineer told me: please don't use function so-and-so and whatever you do: don't press THAT button! When I asked "why not?" the answer was: "then the software will break down and you will need to get back into the code by making a jump to line number 1745". As a result of which I threw the disc back into his face and told him to go and visit the customer himself. That, of course, never happened. I phoned the customer and told him there were still some issues with the software and that it would not be presented to him by me if it would not be ready. He understood.

    The fact that you can not use the product to the fullest of the reasonably to be expected boundaries but only in a limited way that is not even documented is a proof of a flawed product, not a "user instruction".

    I agree with Finians conclusion that at least the embedded browse is seriously flawed and that it indeed tends to fall apart under severe stress. I have seen it happen many times in daily practice. Furthermore, it can produce all kinds of "ghost data" appearing and disappearing at will, records that would appear in the browse like three times instead of just one and things like that, and has serious problems in the area of navigation using the sliding bar. Also, whenever there appeared a situation of corruption on any form (which happened quite often) there was always an embedded browse on it. Forms without those seemed to have way less risk of getting corrupted. Put a couple of embedded browses on a conditional object or a tabbed object in layers and you can wait on trouble. "Then don't use it that way" is not a valid point since that is intended use by the manufacturer. It is just flawed. And it really is not like this is the first time we hear about this and all be surprised. There have been hundreds of complaints about the embedded browse on this forum. This really is old news and besides that, quite a few years ago it was even confirmed by Alpha that the embedded browse object urgently needed to be "completely rewritten". Now, I am not saying that this should now be done in a hurry dropping everything else, but doing just like the browse is perfect "if you would just not do so-and-so" is an over simplification, not correct, and not in line with the standing instructions.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Marcel, obviously you enjoy writing, lots.
    Lets ask Raymond perhaps if he has a method to simulate, or to enable his customers to use a browse in the manner that most (mine anyway) clients demand - for example -as a browse!!, for point, click and enter, naturally and smoothly. That I would be interested in.
    Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 02-26-2013 at 04:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray in Capetown View Post
    Marcel, obviously you enjoy writing, lots.
    Last time I checked, this was not against the law in the Netherlands fortunately.

    I guess what it all boils down to is, that Alpha Five has become such a wide platform with such a deepness that keeping it all completely up-to-date requires a company size that supersedes the current size of Alpha Software. And now the platform even gets larger by adding mobile to it where they can't even coop with maintaining the current platform as it is. This will in my humble opinion either force them to reject the "3 flavor" design (desktop, web, mobile) of the platform in favor of a "one flavor design" (would be a good thing) or it will increase the problems with maintaining and updating all three of them even more (which would be a bad thing). We will see what happens.

  11. #41
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ray in Capetown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Yes true, but all Nederlanders are radical free speakers, we on the other hand jus praat k*k
    (read this quick Marcel, it may disappear soon. BTW I enjoy some of your discourse)
    We mostly want the same thing/s.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray in Capetown View Post
    Yes true, but all Nederlanders are radical free speakers, we on the other hand jus praat k*k
    (read this quick Marcel, it may disappear soon. BTW I enjoy some of your discourse)
    We mostly want the same thing/s.
    for us Dutch (besides Belgian) the South African language is the most hilarious one on the planet (with all due respect!). Words like: "hijsbakkie", "pletterpet" and so on have us rolling on the floor.....

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by mronck View Post
    I am sorry, but I see this as a way too simplified statement.

    To begin with, you mention a limitation in the use of the browse that (if honored) would make the browse not fall apart when stressed. This limitation would be the use of the browse for data entry. .....

    I agree with Finians conclusion that at least the embedded browse is seriously flawed and that it indeed tends to fall apart under severe stress......
    I am sorry too (well, not really) because in regard to the embedded browse I agree with you and Finian. But most of us have long since given up waiting for Alpha to fix the browse. So, as desktop developers, do we flee Alpha or do we figure out how to deal with well known flaws (memo fields are another example of things I try very hard to avoid--or use the methods Peter Wayne outlined years ago), things that for rational financial reasons will probably never be fixed.

    So as I said, forms without embedded browses (and without memo fields) in my long experience are not inherently flawed, and coupled with use of some Xdialogs (lots if you can afford the time) results (for me) stable, reliable apps. I also said that I sometimes do use embedded browses on a form for displaying (usually only for displaying) multiple records or as a quick means of navigating to a record showing in the browse. Once on a record, it is usually child's play to have data entry fields on the form--for entry or changes.

    But yes, I think we all agree, the embedded browse is seriously flawed and in a perfect world should be fixed. So should poverty and disease, but only people with Bill Gates and Carlos Slim's wealth can do much about it. Since to my knowledge Carlos isn't doing what Bill is doing at least on disease, maybe Carlos could help Alpha? Probably not!

    Raymond Lyons

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    True Raymond, but the fact that you can't do anything about it, but can live with it by workarounds etc does not make the browse inherently stable. It is what it is, no matter how we deal with it: flawed.
    But that is no longer a point of discussion, since we all obviously agree. Hilarious to note that Bill Gates is apparently able to do something on poverty and disease.... by producing flawed software..... which kind of gives a whole different view on the matter . And on that bombshell we can leave this part of the discussion for what it is. Nothing that includes humans will ever be perfect.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Bob

    Well said on calendar functionality. Equally so on drag & drop - using applications which have both just makes users so much more productive.

    And equally well pointed out about mobile, Internet connectivity in the UK is by and large abyssmal.

    If would be nice to see some snazzy graphing capability. The simple chart genie could be so much better if it offered a wider choice of graphs.

    I've just invested in V11 and would like to think they have dramtically improved MS Word integration.

    Kind regards

    Alex

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Sorry to say Alex you are in for a big disappointment on the MS Word integration if you are using the Amunyi driver - it is abysmal and creates Word files that are a dog's breakfast to edit. If and it's a very large if, you can turn your reports / letters into layout table reports, something I have found virtually impossible, the Word output is very good. Most of our "letters" we want to export to Word simply do not seem to be capable of being produced as layout tables so we have had to abandon plans to use V 11 with our flagship product. Instead we have found a way to seamlessly install V10 on Windows 8.
    There is a tool in the V12 beta that converts free format reports and letters to layout tables but it did not work at all well with our documents.
    Glad you agree with my thoughts on the rush for mobile.
    Have you looked at FileMaker go on an Ipad.
    After over 20 years of continuous learning with Alpha which in so very many ways is an excellent tool I am not keen to start learning something new but if needs must.
    Bob Whitaker


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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    The browse(which means - view) has been a small problem since I can remember when entering records. I have one part of a big app that works quite well using the browse, but it is not imbedded. It seems to me that spreadsheets that do enter quite well have caused us to think of the browse in the same way.

    I (like many programmers) will find a way to get around possible problems. If using the browse as a view only works and breaks when trying to enter data, you block entry so it does ok. I imbed many browse's in my forms, but entry is from the form. Some of them are editable, but NO entry. Several of my forms are completely variable based(except one field) and data entry is done by use of a udf/script after the user completes the entry. Most of my apps are multi-user and it is a big deal that stressing the app not be a bad thing for the user. We do need to change things up as the tools get better. I(for one) am not as up to date as I would like with the newer tools.
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    1Bob
    It is disappointing that they haven't corrected MS Word failings. Specilaising in developing apps for two specific industries, I can think of a number of ways in which we could use such a tool. Alas, it is what it is
    and I cannot do anything about it.

    Again with mobile and data collection on the workshop/factory floor, I can see the advantages of mobile. However, as you cannot rely on the connectivity, we looked at an alternative and found it with touchscreen technology.

    Like you I have a 20 year investment in Alpha. However, I have every confidence just now that Richard and Selwyn are committed to the desktop and that if not in V12, then perhaps thereafter, we will have a robust calendar component, drag & drop , unbound rights, snazzy graphics, Word integration etc. Some of which should have been done by now.

    My own feelings are that on mobile and web databases, the big black clouds of security threats, hosting policy changes and reliability are not going to go away soon. So regardless of how good Alpha's web and mobile development tools are, the quality of their performance is governed by factors outside Alpha's control. The recipe for guanranteed deliverability (and that is what B2B clients pay for) isn't there.

    Until I am convinced otherwise I will be exclusively developing for the desktop. As a salesperosn you sell what you have and I still believe Alpha is the best around.

    Kind regards
    Alex

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    One would hope that Alpha will continue to support the desktop. The desktop will continue to exist, but will it be enhanced? You may "have every confidence" but the evidence is sketchy at best.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    I would go further then that and say that the desktop will not only continue to exist, but will continue to be an important expression of database products as well. It will never be in "last place".

    I guess it all boils down to a matter of communication: would Alpha state something here about how they see the desktop, and what their plans with the desktop will be this could bring a lot more stability in minds of desktop developers. But then again: you can't say much here or it will be taken as scribed in granite and oh boy what will happen here if you (for what ever acceptable reason) you fail to accomplish it, or, change your mind in the process. We don't make it easy for them either guys, now do we?

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Peter

    I believe Richard has said that the desktop will continue to be enhanced and supported. My own thoughts are twofold. Firtsly the boundaries of web and desktop will merge into one. You will use the same tool to develop. Alpha just haven't come up with a way to do it yet.

    Secondly keeping priceless precious data on someone else's server is a technology driver and is being driven by technologists. Whilst technology drives business, equally so business drives technology.

    The concept of web databases has been around for some years, yet businesses are still buying hardware and networks. They buy them because the idea of their core business data sitting on someone else's server outside of their control is unthinkable.

    Why would you stick your customers, the prices you charge them, the products you sell them and the margins you make from doing so, on someone else's hardware over which you have no control.

    From what I read the majority of IT CEOs today say their biggest issue is controlling what and who has access to what.

    Three years ago I got involved in a negotiation where the client had been using a web service to manage their core activities (quoting, logging jobs, tracking expenses and customer invoicing). One day they get a phone call saying the supplier had gone bust. The administrators in an attempt to generate recovery costs wrote to my client and his competitors asking if he would like to make an offer for the entire server data!

    Hundreds of horror stories like this awash the web.

    I cannot imagine Alpha giving up their rich pedigree for technology that would appear to have more holes than a tramps vest!

    Alex

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
    The concept of web databases has been around for some years, yet businesses are still buying hardware and networks. They buy them because the idea of their core business data sitting on someone else's server outside of their control is unthinkable.

    Why would you stick your customers, the prices you charge them, the products you sell them and the margins you make from doing so, on someone else's hardware over which you have no control.
    I strongly disagree with those statements. To start with the last one: maybe because someone else can do a far better job on that then you can?

    Businesses are still buying hardware and networks, yes. But they aren't buying them "because the idea of their core business data sitting on someone else's server outside of their control is unthinkable" as you say.
    They are mostly buying them to run their office software not their critical applications. Because exactly for business critical applications the investments for reaching tier5 level continuity guarantees are phenomenal and outside most companies budgets. That's where the external providers come in. I am not sure whether you have any idea what peeps around the corner just for a medium level company server room. In terms of cooling for instance. What that means on technology requirements and costs only to provide the necessary full-continuity cooling in environments which embed blade server systems etc etc is a gigantic challenge to begin with.

    And not only cost-wise will most companies reach their boundaries, but also knowledge wise. Keeping hackers and all types of malware out of the door is work for professionals nowadays as soon as you are talking critical business applications. It is not even productive nor efficient cost wise to have all that for just yourself. External providers can manage security monitoring where you just pay for your share of the bill and the cost will spread in relation to effort among more customers.

    The figures also prove you dramatically wrong: according to publications of DatacenterDynamics worldwide investments in specialized data centers have increased by a stunning figure of 22 percent from a likewise stunning 86 billion dollars in 2011 to 105 billion dollars in 2012! And that whilst there is a crisis going on! Furthermore, the USE of those data centers has increased tremendously as well, which can be concluded from the energy consumption of those data centers: energy consumption has grown by 63 percent (to a staggering 38 Gigawatts!!) in just ONE year !!

    So this clearly proves, that more and more data is being shifted to data centers and thus leaving the premises of individual companies. This of course has a price tag, and that is one of the reasons not everything will be going outside the building, and even if, you will need internal computer structures as well to get a functioning business.

    As a former CISO and Information Continuity Officer I can tell you that there is much involved in risk assessment and risk management around locations for computer hardware and platforms running critical business applications. Continuity and availability demands have been on the rise for the last 10 years or so and generally it is no longer acceptable for critical business applications to have them located on places with the same risk profile.

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    To start with the last one: maybe because someone else can do a far better job on that then you can?

    I don't know the point you are trying to make. The technology engine is just one part of building and implementing a successful tool that will drive and achieve business goals. There is the quality of the consultancy, the project planning skills, the documentation skills, the industry expertise of the individual.

    All of these are more important than the development engine. If they are not present then the application that is built is not going to fit for purpose.

    I don't know what industry expertise you have but I can assure you that if you would like to challenge mine in the two areas I have earned my stripes with, then by all means contact me after you have a developed equivalent web based applications, and then we will approach members of these industries and show them our respective offerings.

    In reality you could no more build a web application that came remotely close to my desktop, than I could build a desktop close to a web application in your chosen field.
    And those reasons have got nothing to do with the technology.

    As the old adage says "a good consultant with a inferior tool will always outshine a poor consultant with a superior one"

    In passing what is your industry expertise?

    They are mostly buying them to run their office software not their critical applications. Because exactly for business critical applications the investments for reaching tier5 level continuity guarantees are phenomenal and outside most companies budgets. That's where the external providers come in. I am not sure whether you have any idea what peeps around the corner just for a medium level company server room. In terms of cooling for instance. What that means on technology requirements and costs only to provide the necessary full-continuity cooling in environments which embed blade server systems etc etc is a gigantic challenge to begin with.

    You obviously deal with a different breed of businessman to the ones I deal with. Tier 5 level continuity - not sure what is around the corner for a medium level server room...and you honestly believe that a businessman who invests in an Alpha application is concerned about this technical dribble?

    Some, the larger client - by large I mean 50+ users - may well be, but are they typical of the applications that get built and written?

    The figures also prove you dramatically wrong: according to publications of DatacenterDynamics worldwide investments in specialized data centers have increased by a stunning figure of 22 percent from a likewise stunning 86 billion dollars in 2011 to 105 billion dollars in 2012! And that whilst there is a crisis going on! Furthermore, the USE of those data centers has increased tremendously as well, which can be concluded from the energy consumption of those data centers: energy consumption has grown by 63 percent (to a staggering 38 Gigawatts!!) in just ONE year !!

    So this clearly proves, that more and more data is being shifted to data centers and thus leaving the premises of individual companies. This of course has a price tag, and that is one of the reasons not everything will be going outside the building, and even if, you will need internal computer structures as well to get a functioning business.

    It doesn't prove anything except that data is moving from in house to data centres. If most of this is governmental and not industry, then I wouldn't have thought it would had any impact to the average Alpha developer. Your comments are a generic and since they offer no substance makes me question their believability.

    Can you supply a breakdown between what proportion is government and what is private industry.

    As a former CISO and Information Continuity Officer I can tell you that there is much involved in risk assessment and risk management around locations for computer hardware and platforms running critical business applications. Continuity and availability demands have been on the rise for the last 10 years or so and generally it is no longer acceptable for critical business applications to have them located on places with the same risk profile.

    As a computer systems salesperson of 36 years I can only speak for the business people I have encountered, and sold 10s of millions of pounds worth of systems to, and cannot think of anyone to hand who has used terminology such as you.

    Going back to how Bob started this message, Alpha has done nothing to date to convince me that they are not committed to the desktop engine. V12 will come for the desktop and whilst it may or may not contain all we ask, it will come. As indeed will V13 and V14 I suspect.

    And even if by some unlikely event the desktop engine ceased to be developed, what wonderful opportunities it would create for all Alpha developers to revisit their client base with a new offering.

    Alex

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    I find this whole issue and discussion of 'cloud storage' interesting. My background is government. Government is really skeptical of trusting there data to centers they do not operate. Part of that is the kinds and types of date they keep along with an endless list of statutory requirements. I tried to encourage them to look at some of the lower cost tools available on the cloud and the idea was rejected at every turn. The elephant in the room was always not wanting their data stored in the cloud. That may change, and in some ways I hope it does, but until then the cloud is not a reality for government.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    You have largely missed the point here. I did not challenge you in person, but I challenged your statements as I quoted.

    You yourself might want to read up on how to use quotes, because as it is now your reply is a jungle of statements from myself and reactions from you that very much blurr things. As said I am not challenging you in person, and I am surprised to see you react like I did?

    However, my reaction to the quote I used from you was well argumented whilst your reaction is not. It looks like something that is vented out of emotion rather then deduction and I doubt very much going this way is productive to this forum.

    Your quote has the object "businesses" in it. You say that "businesses" reject placing business data on someone else's server. I wonder what argumentation and figures defend such a statement since it obviously is not applicable to the majority of businesses. There is no major divide between "government" and "businesses" in those figures as you so poorly suggest. The main source from external data centers customer wise and the figures that I used are indeed businesses and almost no governmental customers. Whilst you may very well think like you stated, what you think is not necessarily business standard.
    Furthermore, you now speak of "average Alpha Developers" where you did not in the quotes I mentioned. You just talked about "businesses" and not about "businesses running Alpha". I think adding subjects to the equation afterwards is not very fruitful.

    If you look at what your own British energy watchdog "Ofgem" says about data centers: the energy consumption of datacenters in the UK will reach the maximum capacity level in the year 2015-2016 at which point the UK has not enough energy to deliver more power to the data centers and the import of natural gas becomes an issue, the UK will become dependent on that. Now, would that all be the British Government you think?

    Another example: the CEO of ON365 (on of your larger providers in the UK) says that data centers nowadays are responsible for 2-3 percent of the total energy consumption of the whole of the United Kingdom. Is that not completely and utterly in conflict with your general statement (not limited to "small companies" or "alpha five running companies" at the time you made them) that companies would reject placing their data on anybody elses servers?

    But one sees what one wants to see I guess. And if solid figures don't make you change your point of view, so be it. In that case, there is no point in discussing this any further. There are also people that say there has never been a man on the moon and it all is a hoax. Can't help that. But data IS actually being moved and that is largely business data. Fact.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by jkwrpc View Post
    I find this whole issue and discussion of 'cloud storage' interesting. My background is government. Government is really skeptical of trusting there data to centers they do not operate. Part of that is the kinds and types of date they keep along with an endless list of statutory requirements. I tried to encourage them to look at some of the lower cost tools available on the cloud and the idea was rejected at every turn. The elephant in the room was always not wanting their data stored in the cloud. That may change, and in some ways I hope it does, but until then the cloud is not a reality for government.
    It is interesting indeed, but also highly challenging. A few years ago I was involved in designing the infrastructure for a national banking institution in the Netherlands going into the clouds, and had the lead on realizing this after signing the contracts. This was a multi million dollar contract with many, many aspects that were all extremely interesting for me to work out. We are talking about things like availability, continuity, security, and what not. The contacts with the provider were very awarding: they were highly skilled professionals working with the best stuff available. It was a great experience and it dramatically improved the performance etc of the critical business applications we hosted on the infrastructure.

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    You have largely missed the point here. I did not challenge you in person, but I challenged your statements as I quoted.

    Nope you definitley said maybe because someone else can do a far better job on that then you can?

    We will put it down to language differences will we?

    I challenged you to supply facts on two occassions and none were forthcoming, So what is the point of having a discussion with someone who tells you his argument is well presented, and yours is not.
    Not only that but you choose to insult me by using the words poorly, emotion.

    If you look at what your own British energy watchdog "Ofgem" says about data centers: the energy consumption of datacenters in the UK will reach the maximum capacity level in the year 2015-2016 at which point the UK has not enough energy to deliver more power to the data centers and the import of natural gas becomes an issue, the UK will become dependent on that. Now, would that all be the British Government you think?

    Another example: the CEO of ON365 (on of your larger providers in the UK) says that data centers nowadays are responsible for 2-3 percent of the total energy consumption of the whole of the United Kingdom. Is that not completely and utterly in conflict with your general statement (not limited to "small companies" or "alpha five running companies" at the time you made them) that companies would reject placing their data on anybody elses servers?


    Dear oh dear....do you actually seriously belive that anorak type statements like contribute anything of any value to the average Alpha developer?

    I'll close my contribution now as I believe your comments offer little in the way of knowledge and a lot in self importance pontification.

    Kind regards

    Alex

    PS: You never did say what industries you are expert in!

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    May I respectfully suggest we get back to building a wish list for the desktop. I believe that was the point of the thread and one that I personally hoped would be of value.

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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Quote Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
    Nope you definitley said maybe because someone else can do a far better job on that then you can?[/I]
    We will put it down to language differences will we?
    You obviously did not understand that statement either, so let me say the following to that:
    If you ask something like: "Why should anyone do that?"
    I could answer: "Maybe because someone else can do that better then you".

    The point that I was trying to make was, that companies might be interested in placing their software outside, because others can do a better job in terms of availability, continuity etc as they could. I followed up on that with a rather solid argumentation.

    I hope you understand it now. You should not treat any statement someone makes as if they are personally attacking you while they are obviously not.
    Answering with direct insults like you do also so not add something in the way of knowledge mr. Muir. Is is not very well mannered instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by alexmuir View Post
    PS: You never did say what industries you are expert in!
    That is correct. I did not.

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Attention Desktop Developers

    Marcel

    Follow John W advice and move on.

    Its not important.

    Alex

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