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How do you charge for your work?

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    #16
    Re: How do you charge for your work?

    By the hour for a fixed number of hours is the same as whole project with a single price.
    Steve Wood
    See my profile on IADN

    Comment


      #17
      Re: How do you charge for your work?

      Originally posted by Paullm View Post
      ... not so much the survey, but it's always interesting to see the mechanics and strategy of how others charge for their work.
      ......
      Also, what I have often found is that what is perceived as simple (in the client's mind) is actually complex to do AND vice versa ... what they think is difficult, is actually very simple!
      Both good points, certainly with me.
      I too am interested in views - not a poll-able subject.
      on one hand:
      An open checkbook system with pre-fixed hours leaves the target (what has been completed) to that point an unknown for the client who carries the responsibilty. Maybe the goal is undetermined ie. explorational

      on the other
      A prefixed goal (determined result) based on estimated time, an unknown for the vendor - puts responsibility on the programmer.
      Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 04-09-2013, 03:42 AM.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: How do you charge for your work?

        On this topic.
        To present something that works, looks complex and usually takes more skill to operate takes less time to prepare than something that is made to operate simply, and appears simple.

        I explain to clients' the anomaly;

        What looks and works easy has taken a lot more time and skill to create.
        Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 04-09-2013, 04:08 AM.

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          #19
          Re: How do you charge for your work?

          I have been asked to rewrite a system first written in Borland Paradox in 1999. We've been to see the customer and they have given me their user manual and now are asking "how much and how long".

          I always find this very difficult and recently have been doing a quotation based on the stages of the project and trying to estimate how many hours each stage will take me. I always seem to underestimate and last year spent three days getting data out of a customer's old system after estimating half a day. It does seem to end up like a fixed price and if I try to add "additional hours as required at a rate of �..." they say that it too open ended.

          I have a couple of long standing customers who trust us to charge for the time it takes us and I think I probably end up charging them less than the ones where I spend hours trying to estimate "how much and how long" before I can actaually start any work.
          Jenny Earnshaw
          BusinessPlus (Letchworth) Ltd

          Comment


            #20
            Re: How do you charge for your work?

            I always seem to underestimate and last year spent three days getting data out of a customer's old system after estimating half a day
            Jenny,

            When dealing with/exporting data from "old systems" ... systems you are not directly familiar with ... it is always prudent to make your estimates contingent on there not being any problems with getting the data out.

            Old systems can be bear traps! They often have many "gotchas" (usually the result of sloppy programming or systems design, somewhere along the way!) and they are not always apparent until you actually get in there and dig around!

            You should not have to eat the extra cost, but this should be warned/spelled out in advance.

            As an aside ... are you merely rewriting an old system [from the user manual]? Seems to me that this would be an ideal time to review/overhaul/modernize the system (maybe also web-enable it) to fit today's business needs ... rather than just replicate the old, that I'm sure has features the users hate!

            As another aside ... one nice [A5] feature is that once you get the data export crystal-clear in your mind ... and into proper normalized tables, the A5 Quick Start feature will build a lot of the application for you, that you can then customize. (Obviously, this is something you would NOT want to share with the client!)
            Last edited by Paullm; 04-09-2013, 11:25 AM.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: How do you charge for your work?

              Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
              By the hour for a fixed number of hours is the same as whole project with a single price.
              That's what I was trying to say!
              Peter
              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

              [email protected]
              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


              Comment


                #22
                Re: How do you charge for your work?

                Paul,

                Thanks for your input. The Borland Paradox system has dbf files but I am going to warm that my estimate will assume no problems with the existing data. I'm going through the User Manual to get a feel for the system and what would need to be replicated. This will form the basis of the proposal we put to the customer.

                At the moment they are worried about the age of the software and want it to be in something more up-to-date and may want improvements afterwards. There is no Borland Paradox now and I think it was taken over by Corel and then disappeared. I've got systems I first wrote in 1996 but I have been lucky with Alpha that I have been able to update them through various versions (one started as an Alpha Four dos one).

                We have said we could do a web based version but they are adamant they want a desktop one.
                Jenny Earnshaw
                BusinessPlus (Letchworth) Ltd

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: How do you charge for your work?

                  Borland Paradox was a very good system in it's day. You should not have a huge problem bringing the data over.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: How do you charge for your work?

                    Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                    Borland Paradox was a very good system in it's day. You should not have a huge problem bringing the data over.
                    I remember my dad and me looked at Borland Paradox in the mid 90s and struggled with it and then we found Alpha Four and have never looked back.
                    Jenny Earnshaw
                    BusinessPlus (Letchworth) Ltd

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: How do you charge for your work?

                      Jenny,

                      I hate to throw all this at you, but another couple of possibilities ...

                      Users are not always the best judge of what they need ... but what they WANT. If you can replicate the functionality of their existing system in A5 using just web components, you will have less of an issue down the road, when they suddenly decide that they want their system web-enabled!

                      Also, depending on your in-house knowledge of SQL and the size of their existing DBF tables, it might be an opportune time to migrate them to an SQL database. Aside from the increased stability, you are going to need to use SQL if this new system is eventually web-enabled. (Again, Alpha has a facility to upsize all the DBF tables to SQL equivalents!)

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: How do you charge for your work?

                        People are hijacking this thread.
                        Peter
                        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                        [email protected]
                        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: How do you charge for your work?

                          Originally posted by Paullm View Post
                          Jenny,

                          I hate to throw all this at you, but another couple of possibilities ...

                          Users are not always the best judge of what they need ... but what they WANT. If you can replicate the functionality of their existing system in A5 using just web components, you will have less of an issue down the road, when they suddenly decide that they want their system web-enabled!

                          Also, depending on your in-house knowledge of SQL and the size of their existing DBF tables, it might be an opportune time to migrate them to an SQL database. Aside from the increased stability, you are going to need to use SQL if this new system is eventually web-enabled. (Again, Alpha has a facility to upsize all the DBF tables to SQL equivalents!)
                          Paul, I am going to use web components. My knowledge of SQL is limited so don't think I could tackle that as well. Think i'd better shut up now as it appears as if we are hijacking the thread which I didn't mean to do.
                          Jenny Earnshaw
                          BusinessPlus (Letchworth) Ltd

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: How do you charge for your work?

                            Originally posted by Jenny Earnshaw View Post
                            Think i'd better shut up now as it appears as if we are hijacking the thread which I didn't mean to do.
                            Just start a new thread.
                            Peter
                            AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                            [email protected]
                            https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: How do you charge for your work?

                              Fixed price for the development, T&M for the requirements gathering and analysis to the point of specification.
                              I have managed projects with a combined value of about �30 million using this method. About �250k using Alpha, the rest Cobol conversions and C apps.
                              See our Hybrid Option here;
                              https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                              Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                              You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: How do you charge for your work?

                                My thoughts are a bit different than most.

                                I consider the number and complexity of tables, reports, forms, code, etc. Then I kind of have a fixed idea of what I need, but customer flow through the forms, printing and so on can compound this. Even little things can cause it to be more(like color?).

                                If it is designed right, the user can slide through the forms inserting data and printing without a thought. They have to pay for that one.
                                Dave Mason
                                [email protected]
                                Skype is dave.mason46

                                Comment

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