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A Web Component Desktop??

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    #16
    Re: A Web Component Desktop??

    Originally posted by forskare View Post
    I am in the process of creating a Web Component "ONLY" app to be used on the desktop or intranet without the use of the WAS. At this point I am using a Tabbed User Interface as the home page or menu which consists of buttons to open individual grids and dialogs as well as one or more images.

    I installed RT and the A5 Dev on a spare computer on my home network. I opened up the A5RT and, walla, I was able to open and run the app on puter2 from puter1 as well as run the app on puter1, from puter1.

    I have fund there are many, may advantages of using web components on what one might call the Web Component Desktop. This is a partial list of what I've discovered thus far:

    1) All your web components can be used with the web and mobile. Other than perhaps a few minor changes, you're good to go.

    2) Grids and dialogs are so much richer looking, in some case almost 3D.

    3) There are many more styles to choose from than what's available on the DT. And, you can modify them or create your own.

    4) Using check boxes to invoke If/Then/Else is ver easy to do.

    5) Grids an be nested within grids

    6) Grids can be embedded within dialogs

    7) Single fields in a table can be used as a repeating section on a grid and new rows can be added and removed by a simple click

    8) Lookups can be done on dbf tables and Sql tables, the genies are very easy to use.

    9) Creating a progressive search in the DT is much more cumbersome and time consuming. Simply checking the search part checkbox on a grid setup and then selecting the fields is nearly all that has to be done. It is a bit different but just as easy.

    10) Over the years, many have asked for a way to show totals at the bottom of a browse and finally a way was developed to put the totals in a separate field along side the browse. With a grid, simply check a couple of checkboxes and walla, there it is. Much quicker, neater and professional looking.

    I suspect that when Alpha first came out with the "develop once, deploy all" slogan, this was not what they had in mind but rather using web components on forms, etc. The more I worked with this I quickly saw that by using a TUI as the opening page/screen/menu, there would be no need for forms or browses. Some of my questions were answered by Marcel and when he saw we both were working towards the same goal, he suggested we 'hook-up'. No doubt there are others who have discovered this new venue.

    I closing, if you haven thought of creating a Web Component Desktop, start to explore and let you imagination run wild. I believe you will come away with the same enthusiasm as Marcel and I. One additional side note, The WCD seems to be more stable that the regular DT. At least I've not had to do a compact to remove excess files when something that was working, quit working. You really owe it to yourself to explore Alpha's best kept secret. You just might never want to go back to the 'old' DT.

    P.S.
    I've tried to upload a couple of snap shots but for some reason they will not upload even though they are small .jpg files. I'll see if I can't find another way to get it done.
    Bravo Ken! You and Marcel are real desktop-web component trail blazers! Good job!
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


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      #17
      Re: A Web Component Desktop??

      Originally posted by christappan View Post
      I think I'm understanding, but please clarify. I understand how you're able to work off of a development machine but unclear how you access it via a machine with just the runtime installed...
      Same way you would with the current DT.
      TYVM :) kenn

      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

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        #18
        Re: A Web Component Desktop??

        Thank you Peter. I appreciate it!
        TYVM :) kenn

        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: A Web Component Desktop??

          Not totally true, but close. You have to be able to create those before you can use them. If you have desktop only, you cannot create web stuff. The runtime should run it, just can't make it.
          Dave Mason
          [email protected]
          Skype is dave.mason46

          Comment


            #20
            Re: A Web Component Desktop??

            what's not totally true?
            TYVM :) kenn

            Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: A Web Component Desktop??

              Originally posted by mronck View Post
              Picture: Totals example

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]35355[/ATTACH]

              Picture: Search example

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]35356[/ATTACH]
              WOW! How did the fonts became bigger, how did you change the colors to make it look very professional and How did you customize the search on top to say wild card * , exact etc.?Thanks!

              Comment


                #22
                Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                I thought I cannot run the web component on a network environment, I have created a dialog component before, last year for sure, and I have posted my problem on this board asking why and how to update the records on another computer, my problem before was I cannot update a record on the other computer but on the computer where I installed the app is working and updating properly, so I thought that I cannot use web component on the desktop for multi-user. I will try again because I quit using the dialog component and the grid for data entry on the desktop. Hope I can figure it out now.

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                  #23
                  Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                  did someone say that traditional forms will NOT be available in12?
                  Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                  972 524 8714
                  [email protected]

                  ____________________
                  "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                    Originally posted by martinwcole View Post
                    did someone say that traditional forms will NOT be available in12?
                    I did. I'd love to be wrong. Whether it is with V12 or Vxx it seems to me that replacing desktop forms and browses (and sets?) with grids is the way Alpha is moving. For new projects it could even make a lot of sense, leaving V11 to deal with legacy desktop apps. When Win xx comes out they might even update V11 to deal with it--or not, depending on whether anticipated revenue would at least cover the cost.

                    Raymond Lyons

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                      Originally posted by forskare View Post
                      I am in the process of creating a Web Component "ONLY" app to be used on the desktop or intranet without the use of the WAS. At this point I am using a Tabbed User Interface as the home page or menu which consists of buttons to open individual grids and dialogs as well as one or more images.

                      I installed RT and the A5 Dev on a spare computer on my home network. I opened up the A5RT and, walla, I was able to open and run the app on puter2 from puter1 as well as run the app on puter1, from puter1.

                      I have fund there are many, may advantages of using web components on what one might call the Web Component Desktop. This is a partial list of what I've discovered thus far:
                      Kenn
                      You answered the single million dollar question in your second paragraph. THAT for me is the breakthrough.
                      Without repeatedly blowing hot air that it works, without ever trying it.
                      I had no need for the move to v11 with all the new release problems and time I had spent stabilising v10 apps.

                      Sincere well done and you are a trailblazer in this arena - looking forward to new discoveries.

                      Like Ray Lyons describes, I have forms that are complex (not referring to difficult to make - that's irrelevant) like dashboards and in line with some ERP principles, all aspects of the business resource as relevant for the user at any particular time, using colour and appearing objects to reflect predictions and effects of current operations elsewhere in an enterprise.

                      The range of fields is too wide for one method to serve all best. Just for example :-Running businesses efficiently and competitively (my area) is at another end of the spectrum to world wide flash and distributed cloud single solution apps. I have close friends in other fields, setting up web services and supply with huge hit numbers. They work in PHP and constantly evolving apps for apps - where I can only listen.

                      Those with many successful applications using A5 in multiple fields...
                      the likes of Ray, Tom, Mike, Stan, Gabe, Peter G and W and Kenn and others, too many to list now, with their knowledge, experience and fastidious attention to standards and detail I feel sure will be in the best position to take up the cudgel, so to speak, as and when the A5 playing field is declared, to highlight pros AND cons of new paradigms against old - as they have proven in the past.
                      Last edited by Ray in Capetown; 04-14-2013, 03:46 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                        Originally posted by martinwcole View Post
                        did someone say that traditional forms will NOT be available in12?
                        I think Ray impied that in post 5. I checked earlier in the v12 beta that is available and form creation is definately still there. I tested with an app I built in v8-9 and the app ran great in v12 with no modification. Was able to make new forms against existing tables as per normal. So I don't know where Ray got the idea web components will "totally replace forms".

                        oops took to long to post this
                        Tim Kiebert
                        Eagle Creek Citrus
                        A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked just fine.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                          Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
                          I did. I'd love to be wrong. Whether it is with V12 or Vxx it seems to me that replacing desktop forms and browses (and sets?) with grids is the way Alpha is moving. For new projects it could even make a lot of sense, leaving V11 to deal with legacy desktop apps. When Win xx comes out they might even update V11 to deal with it--or not, depending on whether anticipated revenue would at least cover the cost.

                          Raymond Lyons
                          Based on what statement exactly did you conclude that traditional forms will not be available in v12?
                          That's what I have against wild discussions on "what-Alpha-is-going-to-do" since a lot of smoke is blown up by some that is taken for fact by others whilst never confirmed by Alpha Software.
                          There is no evidence whatever that traditional forms will not be in v12 (but we don't know for sure since it is not yet out there in its definite form) and as such the most sensible thing to do would be to go from the situation they will still be in there.
                          Maybe someone who is actually beta-testing v12 can chime in and confirm that old forms are still in use since I am not one of those.

                          At some point in the future though, it is very likely that "the old desktop" (as we know it Jim) will transform into "something else" or "something heavily adjusted" while support for 32bit software is going to disappear from Windows OS systems in the future and a lot of proprietary stuff in Alpha Five would fall victim to that. From a perspective of efficiency / cost effectiveness it would be a very understandable decision to "replace" the "old desktop" with the web component technology. That may very well be Alpha's way out of that. And an extremely good one at it.
                          Last edited by mronck; 04-14-2013, 03:59 AM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                            Originally posted by mronck View Post
                            Based on what statement exactly did you conclude that traditional forms will not be available in v12?
                            That's what I have against wild discussions on "what-Alpha-is-going-to-do" since a lot of smoke is blown up by some that is taken for fact by others whilst never confirmed by Alpha Software.
                            There is no evidence whatever that traditional forms will not be in v12 (but we don't know for sure...
                            I guess I just "wildly" dreamed it up without there being a shred of evidence that Alpha in V12 "Anywhere" will be without forms and browses. Could be I guess--I have been sick lately and it has caused some weird dreams.

                            On the other hand, maybe not. In any case I have neither the time nor the desire to chase down the evidence in statements made by Alpha Software staff (Richard and others) in regard to what will or will not be in V12. But of course evidence, even based on what is currently in the beta, does not make it certain what will finally be in V12. Me? I am thrilled that traditional forms and browses (and sets?) are in the beta and take that to be strong evidence that they will be in the final release. Still, traditional forms, browses and even sets are part of a desktop model that it seems pretty clear to me that Alpha is moving away from. But hey, I could be wildly dreaming again.

                            Raymond Lyons

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                              Good to hear
                              Not sure I will ever use V12, if V11 remains, and is supported
                              at my age I have minus zero interest in the web! been programming since the 70's!! - I've got more work than I can get to with the desktop only
                              Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                              972 524 8714
                              [email protected]

                              ____________________
                              "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                                Some things that jump to mind:
                                • It might be good to mention, that with regards to "more complex" applications (not meaning complex form designs) the most "power" is "under the hood" so to speak and done with xbasic/UDF's, and that those are still and completely available using web components on the desktop. So the power of any Alpha Application coming from any xbasic would still be completely available with WCD technology.
                                • The richness of todays web applications can not completely be used on the desktop since some components require the use of the WAS. This does not apply to the most commonly used components as for instance grid, dialog and tabbed UI component, but it does apply to for instance the calendar component. So that specific component is "ruled out" being used as WCD since the WAS would be required to be running.
                                • For anyone who has not yet been developing with the web components, there will be a learning curve. Not only because of the completely different look and feel but also because Javascript might become involved which isn't required on the desktop. Web components bring another aspect in the game: the difference between server-side and client-side events. Whilst the server-side events are dealt with in xbasic as usual, the client-side events are dealt with in Javascript, which requires some knowledge of that if you want to go byond the basic action scripting functionality which is available client-side.
                                • The learning curve is dramatically flattened by the many instruction videos that have been created by Selwyn on many aspects of using web components and which will give you a fast heads-up on what is required. Definitely a must-watch!
                                • Some functions in WCD are quite simple visible, but some are hidden pretty well and you almost have to stumble over them or search for them specifically and methodically. For instance there is a small setting for "alternate views" which does not quite attract attention at first glance. However, these few words hide a very rich pallet of functionality like creating graphs with a few mouseclicks or creating google maps with a few mouseclicks. All of that functionality can be used on the desktop.
                                • WCD technology works because of the presence of "working preview", which is a special protocol that allows Alpha to communicate with Internet Explorer directly hence the WAS does not need to run. As said earlier, some components or technology used on the web however will require the WAS to be active/running.
                                • Using WCD you CAN create an "intranet" application that runs over the internet WITHOUT having a WAS running or active. If you want to know how, just send me a pm.
                                • WCD allows you to run a Tabbed UI component as a menu. You can have the TUI start-up automatically using an autoexec script with specific xbasic code that CAN be generated for you by using a wizard. That wizard is hidden a bit but available if you select the TUI in your web control panel and then open the right-mouse-click-menu. There you will find an option to open the wizard.
                                • There are still some things in WCD technology that needs to be addressed. However, Alpha is on this and has fixed some minor issues with that in no-time. Some remain though like the fact that the wizard will most likely come up with a fully qualified filename embedded in its xbasic code. That won't always (mostly not) work in situations with runtime/network. So you manually need to change the fully qualified filename into a short filename.
                                • WCD technology HAS been tested to some extend and the tests showed that WCD will run over the network, it will run as a shadow (some parts of Alpha needed adjusting for that which is done in the most recent patches) and it will run on a runtime install (successfully tested by Ken as stated in initial post). In all cases the TUI will automatically show up on startup.
                                • One of the things that still need to be addressed is the capability to show pictures on the home page of the tui. You can embed images on the menu bar of the TUI, but not yet in the home page itself, since that still requires the WAS to run. That might be addressed in the near future but as is this is still something that can't be done.
                                • WCD is not perfect. Neither is "old desktop". WCD however can run multiple dependencies without the use of "sets" which forms can't. With WCD you can "click through" in grids to an almost infinite level with great ease without any set being present.
                                • In terms of "design&looks" WCD introduces animation on the desktop which enriches the look and feel for the user. Some will like this, some might not. It's there if you want it.
                                • Whilst grids might look a bit "rigid" at first glance and whilst you might take from that, that it restricts your layout freedom, this is not at all the case. Grids offer A LOT of freedom when you look a bit closer. There are freeform layout options all across the grids even inside them on row level (which I use a lot). So these freeform layouts are above, besides and below the grid rows but also inside them which allow you to create almost anything you like.
                                • One of the most powerful components is the dialog grid. In any case where you would want to gather input from the user, you might want to consider this component. Features are way too many to name here, I would advise you to have a look at the video list to get started on that one. Dialogs can automatically create tables for you if you so desire and bind them to the fields on the dialog if you want. Designing multi-step dialog screens is a snap. This all works on the desktop.
                                • Over the past versions, Alpha has adapted its "under the hood" capabilities to web component requirements. One of them being the fact that it will now support several Json functions which allow you to use Json objects in your xbasic code.
                                Last edited by mronck; 04-14-2013, 05:30 AM.

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