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A Web Component Desktop??

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    A Web Component Desktop??

    I am in the process of creating a Web Component "ONLY" app to be used on the desktop or intranet without the use of the WAS. At this point I am using a Tabbed User Interface as the home page or menu which consists of buttons to open individual grids and dialogs as well as one or more images.

    I installed RT and the A5 Dev on a spare computer on my home network. I opened up the A5RT and, walla, I was able to open and run the app on puter2 from puter1 as well as run the app on puter1, from puter1.

    I have fund there are many, may advantages of using web components on what one might call the Web Component Desktop. This is a partial list of what I've discovered thus far:

    1) All your web components can be used with the web and mobile. Other than perhaps a few minor changes, you're good to go.

    2) Grids and dialogs are so much richer looking, in some case almost 3D.

    3) There are many more styles to choose from than what's available on the DT. And, you can modify them or create your own.

    4) Using check boxes to invoke If/Then/Else is ver easy to do.

    5) Grids an be nested within grids

    6) Grids can be embedded within dialogs

    7) Single fields in a table can be used as a repeating section on a grid and new rows can be added and removed by a simple click

    8) Lookups can be done on dbf tables and Sql tables, the genies are very easy to use.

    9) Creating a progressive search in the DT is much more cumbersome and time consuming. Simply checking the search part checkbox on a grid setup and then selecting the fields is nearly all that has to be done. It is a bit different but just as easy.

    10) Over the years, many have asked for a way to show totals at the bottom of a browse and finally a way was developed to put the totals in a separate field along side the browse. With a grid, simply check a couple of checkboxes and walla, there it is. Much quicker, neater and professional looking.

    I suspect that when Alpha first came out with the "develop once, deploy all" slogan, this was not what they had in mind but rather using web components on forms, etc. The more I worked with this I quickly saw that by using a TUI as the opening page/screen/menu, there would be no need for forms or browses. Some of my questions were answered by Marcel and when he saw we both were working towards the same goal, he suggested we 'hook-up'. No doubt there are others who have discovered this new venue.

    I closing, if you haven thought of creating a Web Component Desktop, start to explore and let you imagination run wild. I believe you will come away with the same enthusiasm as Marcel and I. One additional side note, The WCD seems to be more stable that the regular DT. At least I've not had to do a compact to remove excess files when something that was working, quit working. You really owe it to yourself to explore Alpha's best kept secret. You just might never want to go back to the 'old' DT.

    P.S.
    I've tried to upload a couple of snap shots but for some reason they will not upload even though they are small .jpg files. I'll see if I can't find another way to get it done.
    Attached Files
    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

    #2
    Re: A Web Component Desktop??

    Picture: Totals example

    Totals Example-1.JPG

    Picture: Search example

    Search Example 1.JPG

    Comment


      #3
      Re: A Web Component Desktop??

      So are you running V11 web components using the A5 runtime environment instead of the WAS? Will this also work in V12? How would this be licensed?

      Comment


        #4
        Re: A Web Component Desktop??

        Originally posted by DaveF View Post
        So are you running V11 web components using the A5 runtime environment instead of the WAS? Will this also work in V12? How would this be licensed?
        Obviously, I cannot speak for v12. You would deploy it according to v11 licensing.
        TYVM :) kenn

        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Pictures created by Ken

          Just a couple of comments from a desktop only perspective:

          I have played with grids as an alternative to forms and browses a bit.
          I do see that in many cases a grid is better than a browse.
          I do see that in many cases one can build a grid that is a good replacement for the old fashioned form.
          I do see that even in V10.5 and V11 one could build a new project without any forms or browses.

          What I don't like is that creating a grid replacement for a complex form is not a simple, quick, easy thing to do, and in some cases I suspect it is impossible. Easier to work with than a complex Xdialog, but no where near as easy designing a form tied to a table or set.

          So yes, I like that grids are there and can be powerful and in some cases elegant and in some cases preferable to a form, but I don't like that in V12 they totally replace forms. Especially since I would not be able to use anything past V11 to support existing databases for clients who would not pay for rebuilding everything just because Alpha Five so drastically changed the game.

          Finally, I very much resent the comments of some on this forum who suggest that people like me who aren't happy with the coming changes are just backward dolts, etc., etc. and if we would just listen to some of our superiors we'd see the light. Then again, if V12 an onward are by subscription only, I won't be here anyway so my problem with the total lack of forms won't matter, at least to me.

          Raymond Lyons

          Comment


            #6
            Re: A Web Component Desktop??

            ... for future reference ... voil�
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            Comment


              #7
              Re: Pictures created by Ken

              Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
              .....What I don't like is that creating a grid replacement for a complex form is not a simple, quick, easy thing to do....
              Creating a complex form is not an easy thing to do either. Hence the description: complex.

              Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
              and in some cases I suspect it is impossible
              In some cases I suspect creating a form is impossible as well.

              There are pro's and con's in almost anything on this planet. You are not obliged to use forms only, or to use grids only.
              However, were I obliged to make a choice with no specific further requirements stated, my money would be on WCD anytime.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                Originally posted by DaveF View Post
                So are you running V11 web components using the A5 runtime environment instead of the WAS? Will this also work in V12? How would this be licensed?
                Web Components on the Desktop run in "working preview" mode, which is a special protocol that allows Alpha Five to communicate with Internet Explorer directly without using the WAS. So no need for WAS to run in that case. If you want to stretch options even further, I have tested a WCD application running over the internet without the WAS as well. Successfully. This would however only run in intranet situations, or situations where you want to give access to the application to existing, known, accounts and not to the general anonymous public. In the latter case the WAS would be mandatory until now as far as I know.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                  I don't like that in V12 they totally replace forms.
                  So that is why? All makes better sense now and why they are continuing v11 after v12 is out.

                  So, if I carry forward with alpha, I have to adjust my old applications to web components or just drop them.

                  Questions: You do or do not need the was to connect to a database?? How do you make a Reports?
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Pictures created by Ken

                    I' haven't looked at v12 so i have no clue what's in there and what isn't.

                    What I don't like is that creating a grid replacement for a complex form is not a simple, quick, easy thing to do, and in some cases I suspect it is impossible. Easier to work with than a complex Xdialog, but no where near as easy designing a form tied to a table or set.
                    I cannot debate this since I do not know what you mean by a complex form. The grids contain a free form layout option and the dialogs are quite maneuverable as well. If you care to explain what you mean by a complex form, I might be able to speak to it, although I'm not an expert, by any means.

                    Especially since I would not be able to use anything past V11 to support existing databases for clients who would not pay for rebuilding everything just because Alpha Five so drastically changed the game.
                    You know more than I about v12 and none of us know what the pricing structure will be, which I hope, will not be debated in this thread. As far as present clients and their applications go, in one respect, there is no need to go beyond v11. If you want to redesign a bit to use the web components, either on forms or to call them with a button, v11 offers a wealth of promise in that area. How v12 drastically changes the desktop really has little to do, if anything, with your decision to move on from Alpha. If v11 can no longer provide for your needs and v12 pricing is, shall we say, a bit wild, I certainly wouldn't blame you for looking else where.

                    That said, to make a switch just because v12 will not be using forms or assuming they won't pay for upgrading or redesigning is jumping to conclusions. You won't really know what your customers will do until you know pricing and you tell/show them what v12 can do for them. Further, If I were Alpha, I would make the same plans for the DT, Mobile and web. Top stay with the old DT will be OK for a few years but you know as well as I that technology changes faster than the weather and if Alpha doesn't stay on the cutting edge, you would switch to another product that is.

                    Alpha's decisions on the desktop are probably because it is software which contains other 3rd party code that is fairly old and will eventually be non-compatible with newer technology.

                    Finally, I very much resent the comments of some on this forum who suggest that people like me who aren't happy with the coming changes are just backward dolts, etc., etc. and if we would just listen to some of our superiors we'd see the light.
                    This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread and I do not like that it was said here. I ask that you edit it out and if you want to discuss it, start a new thread and I will edit this part out as well.

                    Ray, thank you for your reply.
                    TYVM :) kenn

                    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                      Dropping the was would be a MAJOR step forward for Alpha and the community! At least that is my opinion!
                      It would also be a strong enticement for developers that are sitting on v5 - v11 to do something.
                      Dave Mason
                      [email protected]
                      Skype is dave.mason46

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Pictures created by Ken

                        Originally posted by forskare View Post
                        ...I cannot debate this since I do not know what you mean by a complex form. The grids contain a free form layout option and the dialogs are quite maneuverable as well. If you care to explain what you mean by a complex form, I might be able to speak to it, although I'm not an expert, by any means....
                        I can't even do a screenshot of an example of a complex form much less a sample DB. Why? Because mine are proprietary to my client and are such that even a screenshot would allow a good developer to copy what the program does for my client's competitors.

                        I suspect that most simple forms are for entering new records into tables. However, users of my applications never enter new records, nor are forms just for looking at fields in records. Rather in my apps all new records are imported from exports from other programs. On one of my "complex" forms the user is reviewing existing data side by side with half a dozen "what if" scenarios that make use of static data from other tables and 70 or so form calculated fields. The what if scenarios are visually compared to the existing data in the record. Then the user can decide (by clicking checkbox fields) which records warrant processing via marketing letters, emails or phone calls--decisions that the program can't make on it's own, i.e., it requires user savvy.

                        As it would otherwise be difficult for the user to visually see how things compare, the form helps out by changing the background color and fonts of many of the "what if" fields depending on how it's value compares to existing fields in the record or on calculations based on the existing field data. Something similar is done on a display only browse at the bottom of the form.

                        Initially, existing records showing on the form are the result of a fairly complex query so the user isn't looking at totally irrelevant records (call this the base filter) but then the user also has the ability apply (or unapply) several additional subfilters to the form that further filter what is shown. Unfortunately, there is only so much the filters can do to get down to the target for a marketing campaign. A savvy, knowledgeable user is needed to make the final choices on the form (or browse embedded on the from). Even the user personally being familiar with the human being reflected in the existing record is relevant in many cases.

                        Okay, I'm no expert on grids (FAR from it) but so far in my playing around I have been unable to see how I could recreate one of these "complex" forms using grids (wouldn't have to be identical, just something that would accomplish the same things). Simple data entry forms, yes, something like my some of my forms may not even be possible.

                        Raymond Lyons

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                          So far I understand that data is imported from other sources and the key to your success with this app is the use of filters along with, what would happen if we did this? I realize this is a bit naive, but the forms an browses are and always will be for view the data. The secret is how you write the filter. Whether it's forms, browses, grids or dialogs, the filters are the same. I see no reason why a grid or dialog cannot be used. If it can be done on a form or browse, it can be done on a grid or dialog. I suspect your biggest obstacle is going thru the learning curve which really is not that hard. for the most part, I found the genies to be better than the ones in the DT.
                          TYVM :) kenn

                          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                            Originally posted by forskare View Post
                            So far I understand that data is imported from other sources and the key to your success with this app is the use of filters along with, what would happen if we did this? I realize this is a bit naive, but the forms an browses are and always will be for view the data. The secret is how you write the filter. Whether it's forms, browses, grids or dialogs, the filters are the same. I see no reason why a grid or dialog cannot be used. If it can be done on a form or browse, it can be done on a grid or dialog. I suspect your biggest obstacle is going thru the learning curve which really is not that hard. for the most part, I found the genies to be better than the ones in the DT.
                            Ken, I guess my description was inadequate. Filters are not the problem. I'd put my filter writing up against anyone's. What filters alone could do would result in at least twice as many records going into the marketing campaign, increasing the cost in $$ but also including people who would be turned off both in terms of negative word of mouth but also probably removing them as prospects for future campaigns. I wish I could give you a real example, but for the reasons I gave I cannot. Sorry.

                            Raymond Lyons

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: A Web Component Desktop??

                              I think I'm understanding, but please clarify. I understand how you're able to work off of a development machine but unclear how you access it via a machine with just the runtime installed...

                              Comment

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