Alpha Video Training
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 51

Thread: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Just wondering. Now we can swipe through panels.... so what?
    Suppose you have a grid with a row expander, in it 20 grids. What good would it do to be able to swipe through 20 grids instead of picking exactly the one you need?
    The question being: is the native design with mobile devices efficient enough for daily use, or is it just a hype thing that is time consuming and in-efficient in nature?

  2. #2
    Volunteer Moderator Steve Workings's Avatar
    Real Name
    Steve Workings
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    The Dreaded Chair
    Posts
    5,636

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    In a mobile environment -- A5 or anything else -- it's probably not a good idea to try what you're suggesting. I did this too the first time -- tried to take my desktop-browser app and largely move it to mobile. But you quickly learned that it's often a good idea to go back and re-think your design for the new environment and new tools. The result (at least for me) is a vastly-improved web experience for my users.
    -Steve


  3. #3
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    Bill Griffin
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Edgewood, NY
    Posts
    1,201

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by mronck View Post
    Just wondering. Now we can swipe through panels.... so what?
    Suppose you have a grid with a row expander, in it 20 grids. What good would it do to be able to swipe through 20 grids instead of picking exactly the one you need?
    The question being: is the native design with mobile devices efficient enough for daily use, or is it just a hype thing that is time consuming and in-efficient in nature?
    Marcel,

    I don't think that I am telling you anything new, software design is as efficient as the person designing it. Whether it is for Mobile, web or desktop, a poor design could lead to horrifc results on any platform. Your scenario sounds like it would be a mess on mobile. But that does not mean you could not accomplish what you want on mobile without taking a different look at it. Amazon's mobile app(as are most others) is MUCH different then there web application. It is presented in a different way with a completely different design. Taking a desktop application and dropping it on a mobile device is not a smart idea, in my opinion. It really depends on what you and your customer wants to accomplish. I am sure you have visited websites that are a nightmare to navigate, as well as used software that was poorly designed. Just because something can be done, does not mean it will be done correctly. As experience is gained, efficiency hopefully will follow.

    I guess Steve and I were writing about the same time....Pretty much saying the same thing

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Griffin; 07-11-2013 at 09:52 AM.
    Bill Griffin
    Parkell, Inc

  4. #4
    Member
    Real Name
    Tom Peterson
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, MD
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Workings View Post
    In a mobile environment -- A5 or anything else -- it's probably not a good idea to try what you're suggesting. I did this too the first time -- tried to take my desktop-browser app and largely move it to mobile. But you quickly learned that it's often a good idea to go back and re-think your design for the new environment and new tools. The result (at least for me) is a vastly-improved web experience for my users.
    Steve, I agree, however I think the term "mobile" is a bit too broad, because it seems to include both tablets and smart phones. I have a desktop/web application using a tabbedui that runs really well on my 10.6" tablet with 1080p resolution. I'm sure it would be a bad experience on a smart phone...even my behemoth Samsung Note II. Now, with tablets being made in 9", 8" and 7" sizes, it's difficult to know where the break point is regarding the need to re-configure an app for a smaller sized device. I'll probably try to design future desktop/web apps in a less cramped way, i.e. larger buttons, etc, so that they scale a bit better to smaller devices, although scaling down to a 4"-5" screen will require a re-design.

  5. #5
    "Certified" Alphaholic kkfin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kenneth
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    "Better mobile experience"

    I have noticed that many sites has (and forces) to the mobile version when entering to the site. Many times I wonder why.

    Most of time I do not see any improvements in user experience. In fact mobile experience most of times just sucks. Why we now have to suffer from reduced site experience when all mobile platforms and their browsers has no problems at all with normal sites. This message board in good example. Very easy to use with mobile phone. No need for mobile experience at all.

    In mobile browsers it is very easy to scroll so why all the sudden everything has to fit in a small screen?.

    Special applications are different story. But if you again have to learn to use mobile version for better experience then goddamned.

  6. #6
    Volunteer Moderator Steve Workings's Avatar
    Real Name
    Steve Workings
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    The Dreaded Chair
    Posts
    5,636

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    (Reply esp. to Tom here):

    The question of "mobile" with such a range of devices is indeed worth some discussion. But what I found is that the new tools -- whenever you can possibly use them -- are just a whole lot better. I've quickly become a fan, for instance, of the new List Control. When I can use that instead of a grid, the choice is very easy.

    My current designs are specified for the iPad and desktop (captive user base -- as do so much of us when we build these things), so I simply build one new "mobile" site but more importantly, I'm using the new Alpha Anywhere tools, including panels, list controls, so many improvements in the UX control. So, in the end, what I'm saying is: Use the new tools whenever you can, be cognizant of your users' needs and design accordingly. The OP's original proposition of 20 linked grids is probably barely acceptable in an old-fashioned desktop environment, and unbearably bad in any mobile device.
    Last edited by Steve Workings; 07-11-2013 at 09:38 PM.
    -Steve


  7. #7
    VAR Dan Blank's Avatar
    Real Name
    Dan Blank
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    995

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    As I delve into the mobile aspects of app development I think the key here also is to know your customer and ask them what is really important for them to see on a phone app vs a table app and vs a web app. Also I am finding that some phone app users want a quick count or report of items for one type user and another type user wants to view other details. So now security and log on user privileges play a role based on the logged on user. It is a different world now and a new learning curve for me is being explored.
    Dan

    Dan Blank builds Databases
    Skype: danblank

  8. #8
    Member
    Real Name
    Tom Peterson
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, MD
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Workings View Post
    (Reply esp. to Tom here):I've quickly become a fan, for instance, of the new List Control. When I can use that instead of a grid, the choice is very easy.
    It would be interesting to know when you feel a grid is a better option than a list, and vice versa. Perhaps when you have some time you can expound on that a bit. Is a v12 Total Training in the works?

  9. #9
    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
    Real Name
    Peter Conway
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    We have not used grids for 4 months. All UX.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

  10. #10
    Member
    Real Name
    Tom Peterson
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Phoenix, MD
    Posts
    79

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Peter, is that because you're preparing all your applications for easier transition to "mobile", or you feel the UX and Lists are just generally superior to grids, even if just used on a full size monitor on the web, or both? (Marcel, I hope this isn't taking your thread off course too much.)

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Interesting opinions. I would say that determines that a mobile design is quite something else as a normal desktop design. Not only in how it looks and feels, but also in a functional sense. Which conclusion I would use to say that in its core mobile applications are a long way away from being fully functional "business wide applications" which statement is the real intent of this topic of course. I would even dare to say that a mobile application can be a perfect companion to a business wide application, but can at present not replace it due to the limitations of the devices. Which again leads to the conclusion that mobile applications although maybe "wanted" are at present mostly a result of a hype and where they are really functional they are at best covering a very small part of the business applications data input and most certainly not of the processes that normally run in a larger business application (business logic + business process management). The examples that we have all seen show that as well. That doesn't mean you can't make money on the hype, it means for me that this hype will settle in due time at the level that it belongs to which is by a long shot not what is predicted in the Alpha Software marketing bubble publications. But we'll see where it all ends.....

  12. #12
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    David Kates
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Unionville, ON
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    The developer and their vision is the limiting factors here... nothing else.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidk View Post
    The developer and their vision is the limiting factors here... nothing else.
    I don't think so. Go develop a CAD design program for your smartphone.
    This is an overly simplified statement as if the developer if with enough vision could create everything regardless of things like device-limitations, raw processing power, etc etc.
    The real issue is not what CAN be done, but what is the MOST OPTIMAL WAY to do it. The "Hype" is not always the most optimal thing.

  14. #14
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    David Kates
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Unionville, ON
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    I don't need to develop a CAD design program for my smartphone. I just install one of the many mobile CAD apps already in place... go do a search. And if I'm satisfied using a CAD app on my phone then that's optimal for me. Your continued reference to "hype" doesn't make sense.

  15. #15
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    JohnZaleski
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    1,736

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    This perhaps everyone should broaden their definition of what it is that alpha anywhere is offering. It is a very simple way to create "touch enabled" applications that will run on a variety of devices.The ux component including the very powerful list control is a tremendous development tool. If you have a current business application where the users can benefit by using a mobile device to access the data, then by all means offer it in conjunction with your present application. Bur it is very clear that web applications including the ability to access data with mobile devices is the future of business data oriented applications.
    John

  16. #16
    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
    Real Name
    Peter Conway
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    The emphasis on the word 'mobile' is the issue here, if people are prepared to open their minds to new and better opportunities as they are presented and then present those opportunities to clients, then the phone will start ringing again for those needing new work from existing customers and generate new.

    I find the ability to be able to merge the new tools into existing knowledge and generate applications that have a broader reach very positive.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

  17. #17
    "Certified" Alphaholic kkfin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kenneth
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    I suppose everybody in this thread are talking about browser based mobile not native applications. Big difference.

  18. #18
    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
    Real Name
    Peter Conway
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    I'm strictly talking about browser based tools - BIG - can be as BIG as you want it to be. It's your call.. - but right now BIG is big enough.
    Pete.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

  19. #19
    "Certified" Alphaholic kkfin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kenneth
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by peteconway View Post
    I'm strictly talking about browser based tools - BIG - can be as BIG as you want it to be. It's your call.. - but right now BIG is big enough.
    Pete.
    The big difference comes that you can build browser based mobile with any tool that produces html5.

    So Alpha version 11 is 100% suitable for mobile. All you need is suitable framework to use with Alpha for example KendoUI Mobile. If you need to have grid then KendoUI Complete. The bonus is you will get manual and you can bring your skills again to the next Alpha version.

  20. #20
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    David Kates
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Unionville, ON
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkfin View Post
    I suppose everybody in this thread are talking about browser based mobile not native applications. Big difference.
    There may be some differences now, but those are disappearing. Javascript, HTML5, Alpha are blurring the lines, quite successfully. And I don't really draw a line between them anyway. My Alpha mobile app looks and acts native. If it didn't, I wouldn't bother.

  21. #21
    "Certified" Alphaholic kkfin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kenneth
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidk View Post
    My Alpha mobile app looks and acts native.
    So I suppose your mobile applications made with Alpha do not need internet connection to work.

  22. #22
    Alpha Software Employee Richard Rabins's Avatar
    Real Name
    Richard Rabins
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,347

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    re pure html5 and hybrid (wrapped html5 applications to turn them into native applications,) this blog post (with videos about wrapping alpha anywhere (v12) using PhoneGap) is worth taking a look at http://alphasoftware.net/alpha-anywh...-of-the-world/
    Richard Rabins
    Co Chairman
    Alpha Software

  23. #23
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    David Kates
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Unionville, ON
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by kkfin View Post
    So I suppose your mobile applications made with Alpha do not need internet connection to work.
    If you don't want to use an internet connection then, for now, find something else to work with. Find the tools that let you do what you need to get done.

  24. #24
    Alpha Software Employee Richard Rabins's Avatar
    Real Name
    Richard Rabins
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    2,347

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Working without phone coverage is something we are actively working on.
    In the meantime Robin Bennett from http://www.start-software.com/ has found some tools that when used in conjunction with Alpha allow you to build applications when there is no signal

    Robin's email is robin.bennett@start-software.co.uk
    Richard Rabins
    Co Chairman
    Alpha Software

  25. #25
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    David Kates
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Unionville, ON
    Posts
    7,862

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Rabins View Post
    Working without phone coverage is something we are actively working on.
    In the meantime Robin Bennett from http://www.start-software.com/ has found some tools that when used in conjunction with Alpha allow you to build applications when there is no signal

    Robin's email is robin.bennett@start-software.co.uk
    That's so funny... I was playing with Pocket PC when it first came out to use an Access database on my first smartphone... a decade ago.

  26. #26
    "Certified" Alphaholic kkfin's Avatar
    Real Name
    Kenneth
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidk View Post
    If you don't want to use an internet connection then, for now, find something else to work with. Find the tools that let you do what you need to get done.
    You can read from my post (#19) what tools I use.

    I was more interested your native Alpha Mobile Applications you described in your post (#20). How you do it work like native.

  27. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,416

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by peteconway View Post
    The emphasis on the word 'mobile' is the issue here, if people are prepared to open their minds to new and better opportunities as they are presented and then present those opportunities to clients, then the phone will start ringing again for those needing new work from existing customers and generate new.

    I find the ability to be able to merge the new tools into existing knowledge and generate applications that have a broader reach very positive.
    Pete, since I am to assume you read the initial post correctly, I myself must have failed to explain the original post clearly. That happened before. So let me have another shot at it.

    The question was NOT whether or not "people are prepared to open their minds" (as if many of us would be dumb baboons not prepared to, or even capable of doing that).
    The question was, whether "mobile design" is anywhere near efficient, to ever become a full business application.

    My stance is, that this not the case. Not only because of the LIMITATIONS of mobile devices themselves like raw processor power and screen width (lack thereof - those will doubtlessly improve over time) but also by THE WAY you use them (be my guest and CAD/CAM on your phone if you like, most professionals won't, and in Holland we are pretty well known worldwide for our design capabilities if you did not know that yet) and the circumstances most of the mobile users are in WHEN they use them. My position is, that certain jobs are best done with certain tools. And of course, it may look great for a developer to have a new feature to show to his client. But the client is not going to instantly draw his wallet when you show him your new gadget, he is going to want to know what it exactly brings him in terms of benefits to his business. It's not the tool that conquers the client, as you seem to think, but the result you created with that tool. Hence, we need to properly select the best tool for any given job regardless of it being "old" or "just out there" or "hyping".
    And at this point in time, I don't see the mobile device turning out to be a carrier for a business wide application, more do I see the mobile device being a good companion to that business line application, serving it with small, well designed companion-applications for functionality that require/calls for mobile connectivity.

    Oh, and Pete: phones do ring sometimes, but it occurs that nothing happens afterwards anyway. I wonder why. "Work" is often not the problem. The reasonable pay often is, since more and more people are trying to hunt freebees instead of being willing to pay proper money for a proper job. And some are quite cunning at that.

  28. #28
    "Certified" Alphaholic forskare's Avatar
    Real Name
    Ken Nordin
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Walker, MN
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    As to Marcel's original question:

    Quote Originally Posted by mronck View Post
    What good would it do to be able to swipe through 20 grids instead of picking exactly the one you need?
    The question being: is the native design with mobile devices efficient enough for daily use, or is it just a hype thing that is time consuming and in-efficient in nature?
    T this point in time, there is much more 'hype' for the use of the smartphone. Smartphones have a place in the market and I think we will see it settling down to what can be done efficiently on the smartphone. I have a Galaxy Note but even that size screen is not suited for anything but reading email and that has to be swiped and moved back and forth. I will not use it for anything interned (other than email) There are a lot of apps designed to run on the smartphone but they are NOT designed for the smartphone. Only the tasks which are 'short and sweet' will survive on the smartphone. For companies with employees in the field, that's another animal but there to, a tablet with an air-card is a much better option.
    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

  29. #29
    "Certified" Alphaholic
    Real Name
    Bill Griffin
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Edgewood, NY
    Posts
    1,201

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    I think this says it all stealing from Ken's Signature " Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore"

    Saying all of this if "hype" (I really am sick of that word) is going against what that statement says. It is all about the customer. What the customer want and delivering an efficient way of doing it. I have people who use their smartphones daily for key things to there job. It does'nt really matter what I think, it is key to them, therefore essential and important to THEM. And that is what it is all about. By thinking this is "Hype" (last time I use that word) you are going in with a negative attitude. By not offering these possibilities to your customers you are doing yourself and your customers a disservice. I remember when the Browser based stuff came out the negative and downright close mindedness of most "Desktop for life" guys amazed me. Now many of them are web(browser) guys only and would not even think about doing a desktop application. Same thing is happening for Mobile (touch enabled) (touch screens for certain desktop applications are great).

    So in My opinion (for what it is worth) open your mind to some NEW possibilities and NEW revenue streams. Maybe, just maybe it might work for you.
    Bill Griffin
    Parkell, Inc

  30. #30
    "Certified" Alphaholic forskare's Avatar
    Real Name
    Ken Nordin
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Walker, MN
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: Is the mobile design anywhere near efficient?

    Hello Bill,

    Yes, you most certainly have an arguable point. Every time 'anything' new comes along, there is a certain amount of hype. That's just the way it is. You also made the point that there is at least some hype with the mobile and used browser based stuff an example which is precisely my point, which is, there will also be a certain amount of hype. The hype with the smartphones is that everyone or every business needs to have a smartphone app or your missing out. IMHO, by the time the phones, development time and fees are totaled up, it will be a no go. A cell phone app is an expensive investment and it's value is determined by the need, 'must have' vs 'like to have'.

    I also agree, but only to a point, with your theory about giving a customer what he wants. If you know it won't work, ethically, the customer should be told it won't work or that is doing a much bigger disservice to the customer first and to you second. After all, is that not a reason why you are hired in the first place, to be honest and up front with the customer? Now, if your customer wants to try a new approach, I see nothing wrong with that as long as he knows he is spending money on something which might not work all that well.
    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

Similar Threads

  1. Efficient design of SQl report follow-up -Layout report woes
    By GGAllen in forum Application Server Version 11 - Web/Browser Applications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-02-2013, 12:54 PM
  2. Efficient Search
    By JetLi in forum Alpha Five Version 11 - Desktop Applications
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-19-2011, 05:48 AM
  3. Alpha VP of Mobile Bob Moore - The power of HTML 5/CSS3/JScript for mobile App Dev
    By Richard Rabins in forum Application Server Version 10 - Web/Browser Applications
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-14-2010, 10:21 AM
  4. Is RECORD_UPDATE Efficient?
    By michaelwpayton in forum Alpha Five Version 9 - Desktop Applications
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-03-2009, 08:08 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •