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Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

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    #16
    Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Steve, it would assist if you had the manners to refer to me by name.
    Ok, well lets start with the problem of V11 and IE11.
    I cannot now distribute my app with the Super Control which uses Google maps.
    Jerry has stated that he is not going to get it repaired. The alternative is to revert to IE 10.
    I cannot tell my users to do this.
    What is your way of fixing my problem?
    Don't say buy V12.
    See our Hybrid Option here;
    https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


    Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
    You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

      Ted,

      I was not referring to you individually since "all three" were having problems.
      Steve Wood
      See my profile on IADN

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

        Duplicate - deleted by OP.
        Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013, 05:36 PM.
        Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
        It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
        RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

          Originally posted by preston2 View Post
          One of many. Unfortunately I cannot get a screen shot of every customer that has had problems with my app using the V11 runtime. Some have this same error and on some V11 just flat refuses to run at all. We swap them back to V10.5 and everything works.
          I've never tried going backwards like that... Can you actually open a v.11 application with v.10.5?

          On a related note: I was told (over the phone by sales) that v.12 includes all the "old school" desktop controls and is essentially identical to v.11 (only fixed.) And that if a desktop version 11 ran in v.11, it would also run fine in v.12. Apparently this is only 1/2 the story? Is there no "unlimited runtime" for these classic desktop applications? I hadn't realized that ALL things produced in v.12 required a $400 "Application Server." ~ (Not just browser based solutions.)

          If this is the case: Why couldn't a developer (longtime subscriber with all the appropriate licenses like myself) build a "desktop only application" using v.12 (only using classic desktop non-web based controls) and then open the application in v.11, or even v.10.5 for that matter? (Especially since IE11 has broken a5 v11!) ~ I know this is going backwards, but this methodology is solely for the purpose of circumventing the IE11 issue that has broken v.11. (for which Alpha apparently will not be patching?)

          If you can open it for editing in v.11, you could still conceivably publish "old school" applications using the "v11 unlimited runtimes" that way, right? On the other hand, after reading Preston2's post, it looks like v.10.5 is the way to go for this. I never gave this much thought (prior to today), but the current distribution model for v.12 essentially prohibits "classic desktop development" where one might create an application for distribution as shareware/freeware etc..... I never paid much attention to the "Application Server" threads as I was only working with classic desktop controls. (And then I "made the mistake" of trying to use the HTML editor in v.11)

          Seems to me that that if these v.11 issues are not only experienced during the development cycle, Alpha must do something (and fast). For quite some time, (due to the subscription) I was eligible to use v.12. I didn't because I like the "classic desktop" and the desktop controls worked fine for the things I had been producing. And since v11 wasn't to be fixed, I (foolishly?) just renewed my subscription today thinking I would be able to continue producing "classic desktop utilities/small applications" using the "classic desktop controls" in v.12, without being bitten by the IE11 bug. ~ It was the only option..... (So I thought.)

          But needing an "application server" for a small utility makes it unfeasible to distribute these applications. Hence, a subscription renewal (v.12+) won't/can't make things right either..... What have I done?
          Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013, 05:36 PM.
          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

            Originally posted by SNusa View Post
            I've never tried going backwards like that... Can you actually open a v.11 application with v.10.5?
            I do it all the time because I have to. But none of my stuff uses anything specific to V11 so that helps it be backwards compatible. I only bought V11 because they would not make V10.5 to where it could run on Windows 8 but because of the massive issues of V11 being stable across previous versions of Windows I am forced to create and distribute two versions of my app. I distribute it with the V10.5 runtime for use on Windows XP - Windows 7 and then I have another installer for Windows 8 that includes V11 runtime. I also have to create two versions of the workstation installer. I even have some customers that are running a V10.5 runtime for the master DB and V11 runtime on workstations with Windows 8. It can get confusing.

            I may download V12 onto one of my computers that V11 will not run right on and see if it has the same problems. I will also test it with my V10.5/V11 app. I will let you know how that works out.
            I do not think I will ever buy or subscribe to get V12 though.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

              Is there no "unlimited runtime" for these classic desktop applications? I hadn't realized that ALL things produced in v.12 required a $400 "Application Server." ~ (Not just browser based solutions.)
              There is the classic Runtime in V12, but it is bundled with the purchase of the Web App Server.

              V11 Runtime is $399. You could reverse the V12 Web App Server sales description and say "V12 Runtime is $399, comes with the 10-user Web App Server for free".
              Steve Wood
              See my profile on IADN

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                Originally posted by preston2 View Post
                I may download V12 onto one of my computers that V11 will not run right on and see if it has the same problems. I will also test it with my V10.5/V11 app. I will let you know how that works out.
                I do not think I will ever buy or subscribe to get V12 though.
                Please do Preston2! If it does work, I wonder if it will become "confusing" during the development cycle. (With regards to what you can and cannot use from v.12 when open the database with prior versions.... (oops, I mean "workspace")
                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                  Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                  There is the classic Runtime in V12, but it is bundled with the purchase of the Web App Server.

                  V11 Runtime is $399. You could reverse the V12 Web App Server sales description and say "V12 Runtime is $399, comes with the 10-user Web App Server for free".
                  Still confused Steve: Does that "v11 Runtime" enable one to build "desktop" applications and distribute them without a $399 price tag added to each one?

                  What I'm hoping that means is: "V12 Unlimited Runtime is $399, comes with ONE 10-user Web App Server for free". ~ That would work for marketing/distribution purposes of small tools/utilities. (It's not like many desktop developers are going to be selling hundreds of "desktop based" copies of anything built with Alpha... However, a capable distribution mechanism must be in place in order to facilitate distribution/marketing to even make this a possibility/opportunity!)
                  Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013, 06:08 PM.
                  Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                  It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                  RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                    Robert - Definitely Runtime is not front-and-center on Alpha's site. Cannot find any description of what that product is other than "The Alpha Anywhere Application Server also includes a free Runtime Server for the distribution of your Windows desktop applications." So I have to assume the V12 implementation of Runtime is the same as the V11.

                    Ted - can you provide me with a couple sample address expressions generated by your Super Control/Google Maps. Also, a screenshot of your form that includes the Super Control. Would you be able to use a solution that did not use the Super Control but still provided the same look-and-feel?
                    Steve Wood
                    See my profile on IADN

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                      Thanks Steve! (That is reassuring news for my current usage anyways.) ~ Have a great 2014!
                      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                        Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                        Please do Preston2! If it does work, I wonder if it will become "confusing" during the development cycle. (With regards to what you can and cannot use from v.12 when open the database with prior versions.... (oops, I mean "workspace")

                        Ok, V12 has the same problems as V11 and a few more. For one it interferes with Skype causing Skype not to function correctly. This is a big problem for me because my app uses Skype.

                        Installation was horrible to say the least and I would not wish that experience on any of my customers.

                        On the plus side it does seem to work just fine running a desktop app built with V10.5 or V11 but I always have to "run as administrator" to even get V12 to work. Big downside is it did not fix the incompatibility issues that I have found with V11. If it had run smooth on my test machine I may have considered buying the runtime if I could get it as "Unlimited" for a reasonable price. How ever it does not run smooth and none of the V11 problems were fixed. If they do ever get it fixed my 30 day trial will be over by then and I will never be able to test and find out so it looks like V12 is definitely a no-go for me.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                          And that's after applying the most recent patches/updates to v.12?
                          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                            Originally posted by SNusa View Post
                            And that's after applying the most recent patches/updates to v.12?
                            That is with the latest and greatest. Version 12.2, Build 1856, System Addins - Build 4237

                            One thing I did just notice when checking the version. V12 apparently checks your subscription status so I assume if you ever stop your subscription it will cease to function.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                              V12 does not stop functioning when the subscription expires. It says so right on the Buy page. This forum would be a lot more useful, and less confusing if everyone worked at making informed accurate statements.
                              Steve Wood
                              See my profile on IADN

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                                Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                                V12 does not stop functioning when the subscription expires. It says so right on the Buy page. This forum would be a lot more useful, and less confusing if everyone worked at making informed accurate statements.
                                Ok, informed and accurate statement. V11 and V12 are both full of bugs. V12 still has some of the same bugs as V11 so they have never been addressed. Known fact.

                                I stand corrected on my statement about the subscription. From the pricing page:

                                *Note: Developer Edition licenses include all new features, updates and future releases�as they become available�for the duration of your licensed term. If your term expires and you have not renewed your license, you can still use the software indefinitely, but you will no longer be entitled to any new features, updates, or future releases.

                                Which basically means if you do not keep paying a subscription then you will probably not get bug fixes for bugs that where present when you bought the software. Is that an informed accurate statement or did I read it wrong?

                                What about if I buy it outright under one of the email deals? They say after a year I am out of luck if they did not get around to fixing any bugs within that time frame. Is that an informed accurate statement or did I read it wrong?

                                I guess I look at support differently then some. I support my apps forever even if they only paid once. Even Microsoft kept giving free updates for Windows XP until just recently so I got free updates and patches for 12 years without having to pay MS a subscription and I have been getting free updates for Windows 7 since I have been using it. Maybe I believe as Microsoft does that you stand behind what you sell. I do not have a problem paying for enhancements but I should never have to pay for patches to fix bugs in a program I bought.

                                Steve, to me the mere fact that Alpha has not addressed major bugs in V11 Developer & Runtime and those bugs are still present in the V12 Developer tells me that they will never be addressed. Again, is that an informed accurate statement or did I come to the wrong conclusion?

                                I wish things where different as I would really love to stay with Alpha but I have lost all faith and trust in them and I just do not see that happening as long as they are on the path they have chosen to go down. If that gets me banned for this site then so be it.

                                Comment

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