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Thread: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

  1. #1
    Member SNusa's Avatar
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    Robert Tupper
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    Default Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    I guess nobody uses the HTML editor tool anymore after placing a blank html object from the toolbox....
    (This is what you get.)

    Snap 2013-12-20 at 02.33.55.png
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Hey Rob! Hope you had a good season.
    Back in the saddle I see.
    It could be the problem caused by IE11 which has wrecked parts of Alpha but V11 isn't going to be fixed.
    Have you tried this in V12 - in a trial download of that version.
    Ted Giles
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Giles View Post
    Hey Rob! Hope you had a good season.
    Back in the saddle I see.
    It could be the problem caused by IE11 which has wrecked parts of Alpha but V11 isn't going to be fixed.
    Have you tried this in V12 - in a trial download of that version.
    Had an OK season, not great. ~ Most of us "on this side of the pond" (those who actually work for a living) are (like everywhere else) "working more & harder for less. (So I'm "fitting in just fine!")
    ~The present administration here in the US seems to be rewarding non workers, which obviously has consequences for the rest of us.

    How are you doing?

    I've read (here) that v.12 has some significant issues with desktop apps developed in v.11. (How true is this?) Since the licensing model was finally "softened", (based on what I've read here) according to MY "charter membership subscription expiring just a few weeks ago": I believe I was/am actually entitled to a registered "non-expiring" copy of v.12, but.....

    This past spring, I tried for about a month to get someone from Alpha to respond regarding my charter membership and the salesman's unfulfilled promises/expectations. Even the people I spoke with in sales (not my "salesman", because he/they were no longer with the company for whatever reasons) indicated "something should definitely be done based on my 8 month "extra early renewal" as a result of the "unfulfilled" sales promises. (But that I needed to get either Sewlyn or Richard involved.)

    Well, I tried, but ran out of time as the summer approached, and I never ever heard back from anyone..... Bugs reports were not being acknowledged either. Consequently, I let my subscription expire and briefly looked at some other tools. (I probably should have just called American Express, but I had chosen to give Alpha the benefit of the doubt.) ~ Was this how all their "subscription customers" were treated? I couldn't believe it, having chosen to support them.

    Anyways, in the end, I just don't think I'm going any further down the "Alpha yellow brick road." Honestly I've never bothered to download v.12 while it was in "beta." (Since I have this uncanny ability to encounter a bug ever single time I open a5, I had resorted to remain a good year or so behind their development cycle.) ~ I can't/won't waste more time with bugs, especially when the bugs weren't being fixed, or even acknowledged. I tried.)

    I've been looking at a few other options, as I don't have a good feeling about a5 desktop development in a non-browser front end. From what I've read, they are pushing a web based interface for everything which obviously enables the product to work literally "everywhere" (one way or another). But that's just another layer, and everything already has too many layers IMO.

    Since you've been active here, what's your take on v.12 and the future of "a real desktop" with Alpha products? One thing that kind of concerns me is the incredibly low numbers of active registered members on these forums. There should be at least 5x the activity. (Something I have been checking for quite some time.)

    I personally am sickened by this whole thing. I chose to spend countless hours studying/learning xBasic behind a5 because I didn't want to "go the Microsoft Way." ~ And then, in the end, that's apparently what Alpha chose to do... (I still sincerely enjoy working with the xBasic language, a language which isn't useful anywhere else.)
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-20-2013 at 10:26 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Hi Robert...

    I use the HTML editor (A5V11) and it is working ok. I'm not sure why you are getting the OLE error. I hope someone with more experience can help you with this.

    Re: V12 and desktop. I have a number of complex applications out there and there is no way that I could (in my lifetime) port them over to a browser interface. I have developed a few small 'easy' web apps with V12 but for all my existing and new desktop apps I intend to stay with V11. Even though I have worked with desktop development for years I continue to learn new capabilities that V11 offers... there are few requirements that my clients ask for that I cannot provide with V11 desktop. I realize that the trend towards web apps will continue and my client base will get progressively smaller. However, I am lucky as most of my apps are scientific/technical and that client base does not care if they get their reports from a desktop app or a web app. In one case I do the 'heavy lifting' in V11 desktop and sends reports to a folder that is monitored by a V12 web app which distributes the reports and receives input from users and send this input back to the V11 app. I know... sounds inelegant... but it works.

    Best wishes!

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Hi David;

    Actually, your solution sounds "resourceful." (The "When life gives you lemons, make lemon-aid" solution!)

    I suspect the problem is either ie v.11 (possibly ie permissions/security settings) or Win-7 64bit. This system is "rock solid." All I have to do is create a HTML object on a new/empty form, and click on the little pencil to edit it and this error appears. After acknowledging the error, I do get the editor to appear. But when things like this happen, obviously something is not right.

    By the way: I sincerely hope that this is just a "Christmas lull", and that the forums are typically more active! But based on your reply, It sounds as if I may be correct on my assumptions that: Alpha has (with v.12) effectively "killed the desktop" as we know it, and in doing so has alienated a "significant" portion of the preexisting long time desktop user-base. ~ If so, I can't say that I'm surprised one bit.
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-20-2013 at 10:54 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    I get the same error as you with A5V11 and IE 11 installed.

    My (now out-of-date) V12 generates the same error though I suspect that, if it is still occurring, it will be fixed in V12.

    The prevailing view is that "almost nothing" for the desktop side was changed for the initial release of V12. Any of the V11 apps I ran with that V12 release all ran without a problem so I think your impression of things being otherwise is mistaken.

    The latest version of V12 contains some pretty impressive new features involving embedding a Chrome browser into a desktop application. Selwyn seemed to be saying that, going forward, they were committed to fully supporting Chrome in the desktop, forsaking all others. Which is just fine with me. My initial reaction when I saw the videos was a "so-what" kind of shrug of the shoulder but, on reflection, I've changed my mind.

    After Marcel Kollenar was banned I felt that there would be no incentive for Alpha to continue supporting the concept of WCD i.e. the porting of Web Controls to the Desktop. So I gave up on the whole concept in both V11 and V12. However, if Alpha embeds the browser directly into the desktop in V12, as they have done, then concern about the technology used to present those controls goes away. It opens up all sorts of possibilities for "hybrid" applications.

    A really creative solution from Alpha.
    Finian

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    After Marcel Kollenar was banned I felt that there would be no incentive for Alpha to continue supporting the concept of WCD i.e. the porting of Web Controls to the Desktop.
    Fortunately, Marcel Kollenar was not banned, although we rarely see him here these days.
    Unfortunately, Marcel Onck was banned , even though I sometimes disagreed with him.

    I'm curious Fin, on how you see the Chrome adaption relative to WCD? If you are running a web app in Chrome I think you still need the WAS - even if Chrome is embedded in a form or xdialog. But I haven't had a chance to watch the videos yet, so maybe the secret lies therein?

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Well, I am not having a problem with html in V11 because I don't go there. That said I do agree with Roberts sentiments about where Alpha is going and where it has been. Last year I had to upgrade to V11 because V10.5 was not compatible with Win8. The problem is V11 is not 100% compatible with previous versions of Windows. It works on some and flat refuses to work on others. I ran into this problem on some of my machines and Alpha never came up with a reason or a solution. I am probably in a different boat then most here as I do not write apps for large companies. My app is used by hundreds of small companies all over the place which exposes my apps in Alpha to a larger audience with different Windows installations then most and as a result I see more bugs in Alpha then most.

    My solution to the issues I run into is to create two different installers for my App. One that contains the V11 runtime and the other that contains the V10.5 runtime. If they install the V11 runtime and everything works then fine but if they have problems and are on Windows 7 or lower I have them install the one with the V10.5 runtime. I know people say do not use different versions of the runtime from the development version but I do not have anything in my app that is version specific so it has not been an issue.

    V10.5 was/is extremely stable and I have never run into any problem with it except for not being compatible with Win8

    V11 is very unstable on pre-Win8 machines. It is just a pot-luck if it will work or not. Alpha could have fixed this as it is just an issue with it registering some files but instead they where in the gun-ho V12 development mode at the time.

    Now we hear V11 will not work with Win 8.1 if using anything that requires HTML. Alpha could have fixed V11 but instead now tells everyone they must upgrade to V12.

    I would not be surprised if as soon as Alpha decides to start working on V13 that we will find that V12 will not work with Win 8.2 when it comes out so we will be told we have to upgrade our Alpha.

    I was at one time thinking about getting V12 if I could find some good info on developing a multi-tenant web app with it but I do not know if I want to take the risk of Alpha V12 becoming obsolete before I finish developing the web app.

    Just my little rant so I am sorry if I took this thread off the Html problem topic line.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    I think you are in the same boat as me Preston.
    I have developed an application which I decided HAD to run on V10.5 and V11. Just finished and with the client for testing.
    Given the lack of support sorting out V11 and running it with IE11 andWin8, I'd be forced to look at alternatives as the recent track record for problem resolution has not been great. It would be great if Alpha fixed V11, offered V12 as a realistic upgrade to rebuild confidence in the product, and get on with V13 as a new product entirely without the WAS requirement.
    It would probably win me over as well as a few others.
    As it stands I'm decidedly on the fence.
    Hope Ricard or Selwyn join in!
    Ted Giles
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Giles View Post
    I think you are in the same boat as me Preston.
    I have developed an application which I decided HAD to run on V10.5 and V11. Just finished and with the client for testing.
    Given the lack of support sorting out V11 and running it with IE11 andWin8, I'd be forced to look at alternatives as the recent track record for problem resolution has not been great. It would be great if Alpha fixed V11, offered V12 as a realistic upgrade to rebuild confidence in the product, and get on with V13 as a new product entirely without the WAS requirement.
    It would probably win me over as well as a few others.
    As it stands I'm decidedly on the fence.
    Hope Ricard or Selwyn join in!
    I think it's a pretty large "boat" with many "passengers!" ~ Titanic?

    The MS ie11 update problem is a perfect example of why I've been a strong opponent agains desktop applications' reliance on web browser presentation technologies (along with other a5 dependencies in general like .NET for that matter.) ~ You create an "application" and then on "one mystical Tuesday", it just stops working..... Simply because MS pushes an update that renders your delivered product "unusable?!?!" ~ And then you are forced to either find a workaround, or wait until a patch is released (hopefully) by Alpha? (And if the client (or you) are "out of subscription", you're "out of luck" on the second option.)

    If you're developing for the web, a browser based "front end" is obviously "a must." ~ But even here, you're not (hopefully) designing a GUI that only works in one particular browser engine!

    On a slightly related note, has anyone noticed how "all too frequently" many websites (based on ajax solutions) tend to become extremely "unresponsive" (lethargic may be a better word) during peak times? (like during much of this past holiday shopping season) ~ I'm not talking about Alpha products here, just "websites" in general... I can't tell you how many times (since early fall) that I've wished a page was "old school" (submit and response), without all the asynchronous communication "overhead."

    Quote Originally Posted by Finian Lennon View Post
    The latest version of V12 contains some pretty impressive new features involving embedding a Chrome browser into a desktop application. Selwyn seemed to be saying that, going forward, they were committed to fully supporting Chrome in the desktop, forsaking all others. Which is just fine with me. My initial reaction when I saw the videos was a "so-what" kind of shrug of the shoulder but, on reflection, I've changed my mind.
    Here again, the problem I see is more "dependencies." On one hand, they already have MS "breaking the machine" (as was the reason behind this thread.) ~ And now they've added Google as another potential threat..... One future google update could most certainly break every single v12+ desktop application in existence, right?..... This stuff may look great, but at what cost?
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-30-2013 at 08:14 PM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Well Ted and Robert it seems we are all in the same boat then. I have another development platform that can do desktop, Windows 8.X, Mac OS, web, mobile, the whole smear. I just did not want to take over a years worth of development in Alpha and convert it to another development platform. I have yet to receive an email from the other development platform telling me that the version I have will not work with the changes made by MS. Instead when I start it up, it automatically updates me with any patches that may have been released. They have a new version with even more bells and whistles now and I can upgrade to that if I want for under $300.00 out right or I can subscribe for $15.00 a month billed annually.

    The one advantage that Alpha has is that with a desktop application you can network as many computers as your LAN setup will allow without having to buy additional runtime licenses. This is about the only major plus I still see if you are developing desktop apps for large companies.

    The one thing other than all the obvious work involved that has kept me from switching over has been this message board and the people who visit and post here. But I just do not think I am willing to pop another 9 bills (under the current special) for something that may be outdated the next time MS changes something.

    So I too am riding the fence right now and I really do not know which way I will go but for right now it will either be work with the versions of Alpha I have or change platforms. I just do not see me upgrading or subscribing right now.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    It cannot possibly be just us 3 who have the problems, but to be fair to Alpha, they host this Forum so it is sensible to remove offensive posts. I don't think any of the above is offensive, but who knows!
    The only way I can think of at present, is to send e-mail direct to Richard or Selwyn and put our point of view, but as far as AS is concerned, the Desktop is of no interest any more.
    Now that would be OK by me if the web came as able to run under IIS or IIS Express without the expense of the WAS.
    IMHO, the web side was spawned from the DT side which was old technology. The competition didn't have that baggage, and so they were able to start from a more clean sheet, so to speak, and don't have two separate products in a single package to contend with. I'd be happier if they actually split the offerings and charged a licence fee for DT in bundles of 5/10/50 etc. No web in the DT and vice versa. Two products, two separate work streams and two income opportunities.
    We'll see what happens, but there are other offers out there which seem to be better value for money, but time will tell on that front. I am looking forward to the day when I can just ask my tablet/laptop/phone to do things and it just happens. It's actually getting quite close given the Voice Recognition modules available.
    Ted Giles
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Everything you've said makes perfect sense Ted, with the one exception of becoming reliant upon the additional "dependencies" of a web browser.
    (Which apparently can literally "break everything" overnight, as was the topic of this post)

    One related question I have been thinking about recently revolves around "Xdialog." It seems to me that with this shift to an "embedded browser control desktop solution", Xdialog has essentially been depreciated to the point it no longer has any relevance/usefulness for us coders. If I am correct in this assumption, that is one REALLY GOOD THING. (It would be one huge step in "simplifying" development.) ~ I had no intentions of learning to code Xdialog. IMO, it's just way too far "out there." (And I'd prefer "dabbling" in javascript any/every day of the week.)

    I have done very little work with the web controls to date. (I did build a simple front end points lookup which is in use for my business, but I built that with version 10.5 quite a while ago.) The browser was where I had intended to head next, before all the "drama" broke out with the "roadmap change." (I wasn't "going there" until I had a solid foundation of Xbasic first. ~ Which I believe I have.) Step 1 was to be desktop, Step 2 was to be web, and Step 3 was to be "smart-phones" & tablet.....
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013 at 08:55 AM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

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    Volunteer Moderator Steve Wood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    It cannot possibly be just us 3 who have the problems
    It's hard to tell what problems you are referring to when the description is buried in your paragraphs of personal opinion. Can you bullet point what problems you are finding so that other's can test out the issue?
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wood View Post
    It's hard to tell what problems you are referring to when the description is buried in your paragraphs of personal opinion. Can you bullet point what problems you are finding so that other's can test out the issue?
    One of many. Unfortunately I cannot get a screen shot of every customer that has had problems with my app using the V11 runtime. Some have this same error and on some V11 just flat refuses to run at all. We swap them back to V10.5 and everything works.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by preston2; 12-31-2013 at 04:51 PM.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Steve, it would assist if you had the manners to refer to me by name.
    Ok, well lets start with the problem of V11 and IE11.
    I cannot now distribute my app with the Super Control which uses Google maps.
    Jerry has stated that he is not going to get it repaired. The alternative is to revert to IE 10.
    I cannot tell my users to do this.
    What is your way of fixing my problem?
    Don't say buy V12.
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Ted,

    I was not referring to you individually since "all three" were having problems.
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Duplicate - deleted by OP.
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013 at 05:36 PM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  19. #19
    Member SNusa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by preston2 View Post
    One of many. Unfortunately I cannot get a screen shot of every customer that has had problems with my app using the V11 runtime. Some have this same error and on some V11 just flat refuses to run at all. We swap them back to V10.5 and everything works.
    I've never tried going backwards like that... Can you actually open a v.11 application with v.10.5?

    On a related note: I was told (over the phone by sales) that v.12 includes all the "old school" desktop controls and is essentially identical to v.11 (only fixed.) And that if a desktop version 11 ran in v.11, it would also run fine in v.12. Apparently this is only 1/2 the story? Is there no "unlimited runtime" for these classic desktop applications? I hadn't realized that ALL things produced in v.12 required a $400 "Application Server." ~ (Not just browser based solutions.)

    If this is the case: Why couldn't a developer (longtime subscriber with all the appropriate licenses like myself) build a "desktop only application" using v.12 (only using classic desktop non-web based controls) and then open the application in v.11, or even v.10.5 for that matter? (Especially since IE11 has broken a5 v11!) ~ I know this is going backwards, but this methodology is solely for the purpose of circumventing the IE11 issue that has broken v.11. (for which Alpha apparently will not be patching?)

    If you can open it for editing in v.11, you could still conceivably publish "old school" applications using the "v11 unlimited runtimes" that way, right? On the other hand, after reading Preston2's post, it looks like v.10.5 is the way to go for this. I never gave this much thought (prior to today), but the current distribution model for v.12 essentially prohibits "classic desktop development" where one might create an application for distribution as shareware/freeware etc..... I never paid much attention to the "Application Server" threads as I was only working with classic desktop controls. (And then I "made the mistake" of trying to use the HTML editor in v.11)

    Seems to me that that if these v.11 issues are not only experienced during the development cycle, Alpha must do something (and fast). For quite some time, (due to the subscription) I was eligible to use v.12. I didn't because I like the "classic desktop" and the desktop controls worked fine for the things I had been producing. And since v11 wasn't to be fixed, I (foolishly?) just renewed my subscription today thinking I would be able to continue producing "classic desktop utilities/small applications" using the "classic desktop controls" in v.12, without being bitten by the IE11 bug. ~ It was the only option..... (So I thought.)

    But needing an "application server" for a small utility makes it unfeasible to distribute these applications. Hence, a subscription renewal (v.12+) won't/can't make things right either..... What have I done?
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013 at 05:36 PM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

  20. #20
    Member preston2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by SNusa View Post
    I've never tried going backwards like that... Can you actually open a v.11 application with v.10.5?
    I do it all the time because I have to. But none of my stuff uses anything specific to V11 so that helps it be backwards compatible. I only bought V11 because they would not make V10.5 to where it could run on Windows 8 but because of the massive issues of V11 being stable across previous versions of Windows I am forced to create and distribute two versions of my app. I distribute it with the V10.5 runtime for use on Windows XP - Windows 7 and then I have another installer for Windows 8 that includes V11 runtime. I also have to create two versions of the workstation installer. I even have some customers that are running a V10.5 runtime for the master DB and V11 runtime on workstations with Windows 8. It can get confusing.

    I may download V12 onto one of my computers that V11 will not run right on and see if it has the same problems. I will also test it with my V10.5/V11 app. I will let you know how that works out.
    I do not think I will ever buy or subscribe to get V12 though.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Is there no "unlimited runtime" for these classic desktop applications? I hadn't realized that ALL things produced in v.12 required a $400 "Application Server." ~ (Not just browser based solutions.)
    There is the classic Runtime in V12, but it is bundled with the purchase of the Web App Server.

    V11 Runtime is $399. You could reverse the V12 Web App Server sales description and say "V12 Runtime is $399, comes with the 10-user Web App Server for free".
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by preston2 View Post
    I may download V12 onto one of my computers that V11 will not run right on and see if it has the same problems. I will also test it with my V10.5/V11 app. I will let you know how that works out.
    I do not think I will ever buy or subscribe to get V12 though.
    Please do Preston2! If it does work, I wonder if it will become "confusing" during the development cycle. (With regards to what you can and cannot use from v.12 when open the database with prior versions.... (oops, I mean "workspace")
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wood View Post
    There is the classic Runtime in V12, but it is bundled with the purchase of the Web App Server.

    V11 Runtime is $399. You could reverse the V12 Web App Server sales description and say "V12 Runtime is $399, comes with the 10-user Web App Server for free".
    Still confused Steve: Does that "v11 Runtime" enable one to build "desktop" applications and distribute them without a $399 price tag added to each one?

    What I'm hoping that means is: "V12 Unlimited Runtime is $399, comes with ONE 10-user Web App Server for free". ~ That would work for marketing/distribution purposes of small tools/utilities. (It's not like many desktop developers are going to be selling hundreds of "desktop based" copies of anything built with Alpha... However, a capable distribution mechanism must be in place in order to facilitate distribution/marketing to even make this a possibility/opportunity!)
    Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013 at 06:08 PM.
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Robert - Definitely Runtime is not front-and-center on Alpha's site. Cannot find any description of what that product is other than "The Alpha Anywhere Application Server also includes a free Runtime Server for the distribution of your Windows desktop applications." So I have to assume the V12 implementation of Runtime is the same as the V11.

    Ted - can you provide me with a couple sample address expressions generated by your Super Control/Google Maps. Also, a screenshot of your form that includes the Super Control. Would you be able to use a solution that did not use the Super Control but still provided the same look-and-feel?
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Thanks Steve! (That is reassuring news for my current usage anyways.) ~ Have a great 2014!
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by SNusa View Post
    Please do Preston2! If it does work, I wonder if it will become "confusing" during the development cycle. (With regards to what you can and cannot use from v.12 when open the database with prior versions.... (oops, I mean "workspace")

    Ok, V12 has the same problems as V11 and a few more. For one it interferes with Skype causing Skype not to function correctly. This is a big problem for me because my app uses Skype.

    Installation was horrible to say the least and I would not wish that experience on any of my customers.

    On the plus side it does seem to work just fine running a desktop app built with V10.5 or V11 but I always have to "run as administrator" to even get V12 to work. Big downside is it did not fix the incompatibility issues that I have found with V11. If it had run smooth on my test machine I may have considered buying the runtime if I could get it as "Unlimited" for a reasonable price. How ever it does not run smooth and none of the V11 problems were fixed. If they do ever get it fixed my 30 day trial will be over by then and I will never be able to test and find out so it looks like V12 is definitely a no-go for me.
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    And that's after applying the most recent patches/updates to v.12?
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by SNusa View Post
    And that's after applying the most recent patches/updates to v.12?
    That is with the latest and greatest. Version 12.2, Build 1856, System Addins - Build 4237

    One thing I did just notice when checking the version. V12 apparently checks your subscription status so I assume if you ever stop your subscription it will cease to function.

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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    V12 does not stop functioning when the subscription expires. It says so right on the Buy page. This forum would be a lot more useful, and less confusing if everyone worked at making informed accurate statements.
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    Default Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wood View Post
    V12 does not stop functioning when the subscription expires. It says so right on the Buy page. This forum would be a lot more useful, and less confusing if everyone worked at making informed accurate statements.
    Ok, informed and accurate statement. V11 and V12 are both full of bugs. V12 still has some of the same bugs as V11 so they have never been addressed. Known fact.

    I stand corrected on my statement about the subscription. From the pricing page:

    *Note: Developer Edition licenses include all new features, updates and future releases—as they become available—for the duration of your licensed term. If your term expires and you have not renewed your license, you can still use the software indefinitely, but you will no longer be entitled to any new features, updates, or future releases.

    Which basically means if you do not keep paying a subscription then you will probably not get bug fixes for bugs that where present when you bought the software. Is that an informed accurate statement or did I read it wrong?

    What about if I buy it outright under one of the email deals? They say after a year I am out of luck if they did not get around to fixing any bugs within that time frame. Is that an informed accurate statement or did I read it wrong?

    I guess I look at support differently then some. I support my apps forever even if they only paid once. Even Microsoft kept giving free updates for Windows XP until just recently so I got free updates and patches for 12 years without having to pay MS a subscription and I have been getting free updates for Windows 7 since I have been using it. Maybe I believe as Microsoft does that you stand behind what you sell. I do not have a problem paying for enhancements but I should never have to pay for patches to fix bugs in a program I bought.

    Steve, to me the mere fact that Alpha has not addressed major bugs in V11 Developer & Runtime and those bugs are still present in the V12 Developer tells me that they will never be addressed. Again, is that an informed accurate statement or did I come to the wrong conclusion?

    I wish things where different as I would really love to stay with Alpha but I have lost all faith and trust in them and I just do not see that happening as long as they are on the path they have chosen to go down. If that gets me banned for this site then so be it.

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