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Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

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    Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    I guess nobody uses the HTML editor tool anymore after placing a blank html object from the toolbox....
    (This is what you get.)

    Snap 2013-12-20 at 02.33.55.png
    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

    #2
    Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

    Hey Rob! Hope you had a good season.
    Back in the saddle I see.
    It could be the problem caused by IE11 which has wrecked parts of Alpha but V11 isn't going to be fixed.
    Have you tried this in V12 - in a trial download of that version.
    See our Hybrid Option here;
    https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


    Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
    You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

      Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
      Hey Rob! Hope you had a good season.
      Back in the saddle I see.
      It could be the problem caused by IE11 which has wrecked parts of Alpha but V11 isn't going to be fixed.
      Have you tried this in V12 - in a trial download of that version.
      Had an OK season, not great. ~ Most of us "on this side of the pond" (those who actually work for a living) are (like everywhere else) "working more & harder for less. (So I'm "fitting in just fine!")
      ~The present administration here in the US seems to be rewarding non workers, which obviously has consequences for the rest of us.

      How are you doing?

      I've read (here) that v.12 has some significant issues with desktop apps developed in v.11. (How true is this?) Since the licensing model was finally "softened", (based on what I've read here) according to MY "charter membership subscription expiring just a few weeks ago": I believe I was/am actually entitled to a registered "non-expiring" copy of v.12, but.....

      This past spring, I tried for about a month to get someone from Alpha to respond regarding my charter membership and the salesman's unfulfilled promises/expectations. Even the people I spoke with in sales (not my "salesman", because he/they were no longer with the company for whatever reasons) indicated "something should definitely be done based on my 8 month "extra early renewal" as a result of the "unfulfilled" sales promises. (But that I needed to get either Sewlyn or Richard involved.)
      Well, I tried, but ran out of time as the summer approached, and I never ever heard back from anyone..... Bugs reports were not being acknowledged either. Consequently, I let my subscription expire and briefly looked at some other tools. (I probably should have just called American Express, but I had chosen to give Alpha the benefit of the doubt.) ~ Was this how all their "subscription customers" were treated? I couldn't believe it, having chosen to support them.

      Anyways, in the end, I just don't think I'm going any further down the "Alpha yellow brick road." Honestly I've never bothered to download v.12 while it was in "beta." (Since I have this uncanny ability to encounter a bug ever single time I open a5, I had resorted to remain a good year or so behind their development cycle.) ~ I can't/won't waste more time with bugs, especially when the bugs weren't being fixed, or even acknowledged. I tried.)

      I've been looking at a few other options, as I don't have a good feeling about a5 desktop development in a non-browser front end. From what I've read, they are pushing a web based interface for everything which obviously enables the product to work literally "everywhere" (one way or another). But that's just another layer, and everything already has too many layers IMO.

      Since you've been active here, what's your take on v.12 and the future of "a real desktop" with Alpha products? One thing that kind of concerns me is the incredibly low numbers of active registered members on these forums. There should be at least 5x the activity. (Something I have been checking for quite some time.)

      I personally am sickened by this whole thing. I chose to spend countless hours studying/learning xBasic behind a5 because I didn't want to "go the Microsoft Way." ~ And then, in the end, that's apparently what Alpha chose to do... (I still sincerely enjoy working with the xBasic language, a language which isn't useful anywhere else.)
      Last edited by SNusa; 12-20-2013, 10:26 AM.
      Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
      It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
      RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

        Hi Robert...

        I use the HTML editor (A5V11) and it is working ok. I'm not sure why you are getting the OLE error. I hope someone with more experience can help you with this.

        Re: V12 and desktop. I have a number of complex applications out there and there is no way that I could (in my lifetime) port them over to a browser interface. I have developed a few small 'easy' web apps with V12 but for all my existing and new desktop apps I intend to stay with V11. Even though I have worked with desktop development for years I continue to learn new capabilities that V11 offers... there are few requirements that my clients ask for that I cannot provide with V11 desktop. I realize that the trend towards web apps will continue and my client base will get progressively smaller. However, I am lucky as most of my apps are scientific/technical and that client base does not care if they get their reports from a desktop app or a web app. In one case I do the 'heavy lifting' in V11 desktop and sends reports to a folder that is monitored by a V12 web app which distributes the reports and receives input from users and send this input back to the V11 app. I know... sounds inelegant... but it works.

        Best wishes!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

          Hi David;

          Actually, your solution sounds "resourceful." (The "When life gives you lemons, make lemon-aid" solution!)

          I suspect the problem is either ie v.11 (possibly ie permissions/security settings) or Win-7 64bit. This system is "rock solid." All I have to do is create a HTML object on a new/empty form, and click on the little pencil to edit it and this error appears. After acknowledging the error, I do get the editor to appear. But when things like this happen, obviously something is not right.

          By the way: I sincerely hope that this is just a "Christmas lull", and that the forums are typically more active! But based on your reply, It sounds as if I may be correct on my assumptions that: Alpha has (with v.12) effectively "killed the desktop" as we know it, and in doing so has alienated a "significant" portion of the preexisting long time desktop user-base. ~ If so, I can't say that I'm surprised one bit.
          Last edited by SNusa; 12-20-2013, 10:54 AM.
          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

            I get the same error as you with A5V11 and IE 11 installed.

            My (now out-of-date) V12 generates the same error though I suspect that, if it is still occurring, it will be fixed in V12.

            The prevailing view is that "almost nothing" for the desktop side was changed for the initial release of V12. Any of the V11 apps I ran with that V12 release all ran without a problem so I think your impression of things being otherwise is mistaken.

            The latest version of V12 contains some pretty impressive new features involving embedding a Chrome browser into a desktop application. Selwyn seemed to be saying that, going forward, they were committed to fully supporting Chrome in the desktop, forsaking all others. Which is just fine with me. My initial reaction when I saw the videos was a "so-what" kind of shrug of the shoulder but, on reflection, I've changed my mind.

            After Marcel Kollenar was banned I felt that there would be no incentive for Alpha to continue supporting the concept of WCD i.e. the porting of Web Controls to the Desktop. So I gave up on the whole concept in both V11 and V12. However, if Alpha embeds the browser directly into the desktop in V12, as they have done, then concern about the technology used to present those controls goes away. It opens up all sorts of possibilities for "hybrid" applications.

            A really creative solution from Alpha.
            Finian

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

              After Marcel Kollenar was banned I felt that there would be no incentive for Alpha to continue supporting the concept of WCD i.e. the porting of Web Controls to the Desktop.
              Fortunately, Marcel Kollenar was not banned, although we rarely see him here these days.
              Unfortunately, Marcel Onck was banned , even though I sometimes disagreed with him.

              I'm curious Fin, on how you see the Chrome adaption relative to WCD? If you are running a web app in Chrome I think you still need the WAS - even if Chrome is embedded in a form or xdialog. But I haven't had a chance to watch the videos yet, so maybe the secret lies therein?
              Peter
              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

              [email protected]
              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


              Comment


                #8
                Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                Well, I am not having a problem with html in V11 because I don't go there. That said I do agree with Roberts sentiments about where Alpha is going and where it has been. Last year I had to upgrade to V11 because V10.5 was not compatible with Win8. The problem is V11 is not 100% compatible with previous versions of Windows. It works on some and flat refuses to work on others. I ran into this problem on some of my machines and Alpha never came up with a reason or a solution. I am probably in a different boat then most here as I do not write apps for large companies. My app is used by hundreds of small companies all over the place which exposes my apps in Alpha to a larger audience with different Windows installations then most and as a result I see more bugs in Alpha then most.

                My solution to the issues I run into is to create two different installers for my App. One that contains the V11 runtime and the other that contains the V10.5 runtime. If they install the V11 runtime and everything works then fine but if they have problems and are on Windows 7 or lower I have them install the one with the V10.5 runtime. I know people say do not use different versions of the runtime from the development version but I do not have anything in my app that is version specific so it has not been an issue.

                V10.5 was/is extremely stable and I have never run into any problem with it except for not being compatible with Win8

                V11 is very unstable on pre-Win8 machines. It is just a pot-luck if it will work or not. Alpha could have fixed this as it is just an issue with it registering some files but instead they where in the gun-ho V12 development mode at the time.

                Now we hear V11 will not work with Win 8.1 if using anything that requires HTML. Alpha could have fixed V11 but instead now tells everyone they must upgrade to V12.

                I would not be surprised if as soon as Alpha decides to start working on V13 that we will find that V12 will not work with Win 8.2 when it comes out so we will be told we have to upgrade our Alpha.

                I was at one time thinking about getting V12 if I could find some good info on developing a multi-tenant web app with it but I do not know if I want to take the risk of Alpha V12 becoming obsolete before I finish developing the web app.

                Just my little rant so I am sorry if I took this thread off the Html problem topic line.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                  I think you are in the same boat as me Preston.
                  I have developed an application which I decided HAD to run on V10.5 and V11. Just finished and with the client for testing.
                  Given the lack of support sorting out V11 and running it with IE11 andWin8, I'd be forced to look at alternatives as the recent track record for problem resolution has not been great. It would be great if Alpha fixed V11, offered V12 as a realistic upgrade to rebuild confidence in the product, and get on with V13 as a new product entirely without the WAS requirement.
                  It would probably win me over as well as a few others.
                  As it stands I'm decidedly on the fence.
                  Hope Ricard or Selwyn join in!
                  See our Hybrid Option here;
                  https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                  Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                  You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                    Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
                    I think you are in the same boat as me Preston.
                    I have developed an application which I decided HAD to run on V10.5 and V11. Just finished and with the client for testing.
                    Given the lack of support sorting out V11 and running it with IE11 andWin8, I'd be forced to look at alternatives as the recent track record for problem resolution has not been great. It would be great if Alpha fixed V11, offered V12 as a realistic upgrade to rebuild confidence in the product, and get on with V13 as a new product entirely without the WAS requirement.
                    It would probably win me over as well as a few others.
                    As it stands I'm decidedly on the fence.
                    Hope Ricard or Selwyn join in!
                    I think it's a pretty large "boat" with many "passengers!" ~ Titanic?

                    The MS ie11 update problem is a perfect example of why I've been a strong opponent agains desktop applications' reliance on web browser presentation technologies (along with other a5 dependencies in general like .NET for that matter.) ~ You create an "application" and then on "one mystical Tuesday", it just stops working..... Simply because MS pushes an update that renders your delivered product "unusable?!?!" ~ And then you are forced to either find a workaround, or wait until a patch is released (hopefully) by Alpha? (And if the client (or you) are "out of subscription", you're "out of luck" on the second option.)

                    If you're developing for the web, a browser based "front end" is obviously "a must." ~ But even here, you're not (hopefully) designing a GUI that only works in one particular browser engine!

                    On a slightly related note, has anyone noticed how "all too frequently" many websites (based on ajax solutions) tend to become extremely "unresponsive" (lethargic may be a better word) during peak times? (like during much of this past holiday shopping season) ~ I'm not talking about Alpha products here, just "websites" in general... I can't tell you how many times (since early fall) that I've wished a page was "old school" (submit and response), without all the asynchronous communication "overhead."

                    Originally posted by Finian Lennon View Post
                    The latest version of V12 contains some pretty impressive new features involving embedding a Chrome browser into a desktop application. Selwyn seemed to be saying that, going forward, they were committed to fully supporting Chrome in the desktop, forsaking all others. Which is just fine with me. My initial reaction when I saw the videos was a "so-what" kind of shrug of the shoulder but, on reflection, I've changed my mind.
                    Here again, the problem I see is more "dependencies." On one hand, they already have MS "breaking the machine" (as was the reason behind this thread.) ~ And now they've added Google as another potential threat..... One future google update could most certainly break every single v12+ desktop application in existence, right?..... This stuff may look great, but at what cost?
                    Last edited by SNusa; 12-30-2013, 08:14 PM.
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                      Well Ted and Robert it seems we are all in the same boat then. I have another development platform that can do desktop, Windows 8.X, Mac OS, web, mobile, the whole smear. I just did not want to take over a years worth of development in Alpha and convert it to another development platform. I have yet to receive an email from the other development platform telling me that the version I have will not work with the changes made by MS. Instead when I start it up, it automatically updates me with any patches that may have been released. They have a new version with even more bells and whistles now and I can upgrade to that if I want for under $300.00 out right or I can subscribe for $15.00 a month billed annually.

                      The one advantage that Alpha has is that with a desktop application you can network as many computers as your LAN setup will allow without having to buy additional runtime licenses. This is about the only major plus I still see if you are developing desktop apps for large companies.

                      The one thing other than all the obvious work involved that has kept me from switching over has been this message board and the people who visit and post here. But I just do not think I am willing to pop another 9 bills (under the current special) for something that may be outdated the next time MS changes something.

                      So I too am riding the fence right now and I really do not know which way I will go but for right now it will either be work with the versions of Alpha I have or change platforms. I just do not see me upgrading or subscribing right now.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                        It cannot possibly be just us 3 who have the problems, but to be fair to Alpha, they host this Forum so it is sensible to remove offensive posts. I don't think any of the above is offensive, but who knows!
                        The only way I can think of at present, is to send e-mail direct to Richard or Selwyn and put our point of view, but as far as AS is concerned, the Desktop is of no interest any more.
                        Now that would be OK by me if the web came as able to run under IIS or IIS Express without the expense of the WAS.
                        IMHO, the web side was spawned from the DT side which was old technology. The competition didn't have that baggage, and so they were able to start from a more clean sheet, so to speak, and don't have two separate products in a single package to contend with. I'd be happier if they actually split the offerings and charged a licence fee for DT in bundles of 5/10/50 etc. No web in the DT and vice versa. Two products, two separate work streams and two income opportunities.
                        We'll see what happens, but there are other offers out there which seem to be better value for money, but time will tell on that front. I am looking forward to the day when I can just ask my tablet/laptop/phone to do things and it just happens. It's actually getting quite close given the Voice Recognition modules available.
                        See our Hybrid Option here;
                        https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                        Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                        You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                          Everything you've said makes perfect sense Ted, with the one exception of becoming reliant upon the additional "dependencies" of a web browser.
                          (Which apparently can literally "break everything" overnight, as was the topic of this post)

                          One related question I have been thinking about recently revolves around "Xdialog." It seems to me that with this shift to an "embedded browser control desktop solution", Xdialog has essentially been depreciated to the point it no longer has any relevance/usefulness for us coders. If I am correct in this assumption, that is one REALLY GOOD THING. (It would be one huge step in "simplifying" development.) ~ I had no intentions of learning to code Xdialog. IMO, it's just way too far "out there." (And I'd prefer "dabbling" in javascript any/every day of the week.)

                          I have done very little work with the web controls to date. (I did build a simple front end points lookup which is in use for my business, but I built that with version 10.5 quite a while ago.) The browser was where I had intended to head next, before all the "drama" broke out with the "roadmap change." (I wasn't "going there" until I had a solid foundation of Xbasic first. ~ Which I believe I have.) Step 1 was to be desktop, Step 2 was to be web, and Step 3 was to be "smart-phones" & tablet.....
                          Last edited by SNusa; 12-31-2013, 08:55 AM.
                          Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                          It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                          RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                            It cannot possibly be just us 3 who have the problems
                            It's hard to tell what problems you are referring to when the description is buried in your paragraphs of personal opinion. Can you bullet point what problems you are finding so that other's can test out the issue?
                            Steve Wood
                            See my profile on IADN

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Priceless: HTML editor now broken... Always something...

                              Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
                              It's hard to tell what problems you are referring to when the description is buried in your paragraphs of personal opinion. Can you bullet point what problems you are finding so that other's can test out the issue?
                              One of many. Unfortunately I cannot get a screen shot of every customer that has had problems with my app using the V11 runtime. Some have this same error and on some V11 just flat refuses to run at all. We swap them back to V10.5 and everything works.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by preston2; 12-31-2013, 04:51 PM.

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