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Documentation or Lack Thereof

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    Documentation or Lack Thereof

    Hi,

    Seems like all the good documentation is 3rd party and for a very steep cost. Liberty's cost for the mega bundle with shipping is just south of $400. And for anyone evaluating, it just doesn't make sense to buy all these books. And to properly evaluate, one would need to review them all, functions, xbasic, and the rest. I'm coming with a VFP background which is extremely documentation rich (from both Microsoft, 3rd party vendors and the community).

    If I was sold on Alpha, I'd buy the books in a flash. So, why isn't Alpha doing good step-by-step documentation, instead of us wasting our time searching for what should be included. It would certainly help sell their products. If Liberty's or anyone elses documentation is really good, why wouldn't Alpha license only the pdf versions for inclusion with their offerings. Then if we want the physical books, then I would't hesitate to buy them. (just a thought that would benefit everyone)

    Honestly, if Alpha would make available good documentation I would definitely put a lot of effort into my trial of Alpha. I learned a long time ago that a product is only as good as it's documentation, ant there is no replacement for the hard copy book in front of you as you work thru the examples.

    Videos are also great, but only as reinforcement and not as a primary learning tool. Once you know you way around Alpha and how it thinks, then videos can really be beneficial. BTW, Alpha is doing a great job with them, so don't stop, but build on previous videos and link them together so I the developer can move between them with ease, instead of the ad-hoc style presently used.

    Thanks, Stanley

    #2
    Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

    There is a lot of free documentation about. You need to do more research on this Forum.
    Try Peter Wayne and Alphapedia.
    See our Hybrid Option here;
    https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


    Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
    You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

      Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
      There is a lot of free documentation about. You need to do more research on this Forum.
      Try Peter Wayne and Alphapedia.
      Why should anyone, much less someone who is evaluating Alpha Five, have to 'dig' for up to date documentation? Most of what you mention is not up to date. For those who are evaluating AA, there should be a clear path to the most current documentation which reflects on the version being evaluated. The goal would be to give the evaluator the best possible experience, would it not?
      TYVM :) kenn

      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

        Stanley is right. Ken is right. As most of us know, documentation has been a sore point for much (but not all) of Alpha's history. I still don't understand why they don't have someone integrate and reassemble the release notes (and I mean v10, v11 & v12) into a comprehensive online doc. Seems to me, as AA continues to become more and more complex, the videos become an increasingly less useful method to learn Alpha for newcomers. I mean who can sit down, watch and assimilate 300-400 videos? That's not to say videos are not useful, of course they are. But all we have is videos & linear (i.e. chronological) release notes - and that's the problem.
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #5
          Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

          I am wearing the cone of shame Ken.! (See film Up!)
          I suppose it is easier for us oldies who grew up with Alpha and had the big books. Still have one as it happens.
          Then Alpha is a bit like a club, and I wonder how the WAS guys get all their information when it seems to be so sparce?
          Unfortunately, if you want to learn a product, it's a bit like joining a gym to lose weight. You have to actually get stuck in.

          Anyway Stanley, you failed to respond to my earlier question about what you want to do with AS, so I hope you wont be offended if I pop you on my stop list. I have serious doubts about your real all intentions given the phrasing of the questions undermining the product at every turn.
          See our Hybrid Option here;
          https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


          Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
          You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

            There are many reasons why an answer does not come when we think it should. I don't get hung up on that or fault anyone and I won't chastise them for not answering for that very reason. If I were evaluating A5 and became very frustrated with it (does that really happen LOL) I might not be in the mood to respond either, especially when I've made a post and found out there is really nothing more than I've already found. I would have to let the pot simmer to at least a low boil before responding or I know I would probably give more than my .02 and it wouldn't be positive towards Alpha. As a matter of fact, I do not try to promote Alpha any more to others with that being a big reason. If Alpha doesn't care to improve the documentation so threads like this no longer appear, why should they expect positive responses?
            TYVM :) kenn

            Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

              On the other hand, I see little engagement from the enquirer Ken.
              A post designed to cast aspersions and little follow up if any?
              Bit odd don't you think?
              See our Hybrid Option here;
              https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


              Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
              You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                Originally posted by Ted Giles View Post
                On the other hand, I see little engagement from the enquirer Ken.
                A post designed to cast aspersions and little follow up if any?
                Bit odd don't you think?
                Perhaps. If he doesn't answer within the next couple of years, you may be onto something.
                TYVM :) kenn

                Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                  OK, I'm back... I've been busy petitioning help from the Alpha powers. It has taken 4-5 days to finally get something useful which can be found at http://downloads.alphasoftware.com/a...&_hsmi=9683244

                  MasterMind315, thank you so much for this much needed link.


                  Anyway Stanley, you failed to respond to my earlier question about what you want to do with AS
                  I think I have been very clear in my other posts... Again, it is to replace VFP9 and .Net/VS/C#/CSS/JavaScript/HTML for desktop, web and mobile development.

                  So far, I've spent the better part of 10 days of my evaluation time trying to find a road map on how I can quickly get up to speed with Alpha with me coming from a VFP background. Alpha is soooooooooooo different, and that's ok, as I have seen a lot of its power in the videos, which I am impressed. But no docs to get me there raises major concerns!


                  so I hope you wont be offended if I pop you on my stop list
                  What is a stop list is... So far, I can't see where I'd lose anything.


                  I have serious doubts about your real all intentions given the phrasing of the questions undermining the product at every turn
                  What am I supposed to do? Most of my eval time has been diging to find the docs and/or a roadmap to easily and properly eval this very different product. The more Alpha stuff I reviewed, the more questions were being raised while the original questions were not being answered. Adding to the heap. Some questions were answered. I've said it here and I've said it in some of the questions that I've posted, that Alpha appears to be a legitimate replacement, but not if there is no documentation. They need to sell me on making the purchase.

                  My undermining Alpha is simple me stating/comparing what I know about Alpha (very, very little) to VFP and VS. Now, whose fault is that? I've went more than the extra mile in pulling teeth (documentation) to allow me to eval Alpha correctly.

                  Can anyone suggest any docs or videos that shows the step by step setup of the web server, security, and all the stuff that makes Zebra hosting such a great service, as we do not intend to farm the hosting out. Instead, I need to be proficient on the hosting as well, so we can fully support our clients.

                  Thanks, Stanley

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                    poor documentation, segmented videos have been the shortcomings of alpha, not to say the least about other things. but once you get the idea of alpha how it works it is a very good tool to work with. I am sure with your background you will do well and possibly help many on this board in future.

                    in the past year and half or so I have built a web interface to manage my own business. it is a private intranet where we manage all aspects required to run the business and also I have a public sector that gives information to my customers.

                    I am chronicling my experience in building the application in a more streamlined fashion in a blog, not unlike alpha, to show the progress of one product. the blog may be viewed at
                    http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
                    I have just started with websecurity, today I will be posting editing the security.
                    while it may not be a pro standard, I am only a hobbyist with alpha, it might help you to see what alpha can do for you.

                    as the video from giant in the languages you mention says

                    "if I can do these, I am sure you can do. possibly better"

                    good luck in your trial, most of all have fun.
                    thanks for reading

                    gandhi

                    version 11 3381 - 4096
                    mysql backend
                    http://www.alphawebprogramming.blogspot.com
                    [email protected]
                    Skype:[email protected]
                    1 914 924 5171

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                      What Stanley said is based on facts what have been substantiated through the years by many others. If that upsets Alpha, or anyone else, then Alpha and 'anyone else' needs to 'pony up' and fix things so that those types of complaints and frustrations cease to exist. Time is money, no matter what one thinks is his/her time is worth. The longer one has to 'dig' for proper documentation, the less time there is for evaluation of the product. The less time for evaluation of the product, the likelihood of saying adios, increases with each hour. The ball never has been in Stanley's court. It's always been in Alpha's court. I hope Alpha appreciates Stanley's persistence and does something about the documentation.

                      You did very well, Stanley. You did very well!
                      TYVM :) kenn

                      Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                        I think the issue is more this http://alphasoftware.com/careers.asp then not willing of due to lack what ever you want to think of it, but be aware the bannerlist team is watching

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                          Originally posted by bea2701 View Post
                          I think the issue is more this http://alphasoftware.com/careers.asp then not willing of due to lack what ever you want to think of it, but be aware the bannerlist team is watching
                          Thanks for the info. That is news to me and the first I've heard/seen it. I am looking forward, albeit down the road, to improvement. Sometimes, unless and until thoughts and opinions are expressed, one can have a false impression that all is OK.
                          TYVM :) kenn

                          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                            Do you know how old that link is Eric?
                            If it is recent, then good news indeed.
                            See our Hybrid Option here;
                            https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                            Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                            You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Documentation or Lack Thereof

                              Ken, you and I both know that hammering Alpha on the Forum rarely works.
                              If someone is unhappy, they generally have 3 options.
                              1 Walk away,
                              2 Change the situation,
                              3 Live with the problem.

                              If anyone wants better documentation then a poll would be good, else tackle Richard or Selwyn direct. (2)
                              If there is no reply, then (1 or 3)

                              Personally I don't care about documentation as the original intent was to develop systems without programming. V11 and 12 have messed up what little info was available. Robin showed how to get at the CHM for an older version, but this chap wants it, probably quite correctly, up front.
                              All I would say, is try getting useful documentation with a download of MySQL. You have to look elsewhere.
                              See our Hybrid Option here;
                              https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


                              Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
                              You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

                              Comment

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