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Windev 20 vs alpha v12

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    #46
    Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

    Originally posted by preston2 View Post
    True Peter, the learning curve is steep. As for the $$$, depends on how you look at it. Unlimited apps on unlimited servers versus buying a lot of WAS's.

    Again the issue I have is the only info I can get is AA will crawl at a very low concurrent user number unless you throw a fortune 500 companies budget at servers and things. Fine and dandy if you are building apps for large enterprise companies but not if you are trying to get your own SaaS solution off the ground. I would not be able to afford paying Zebrahost $500 to $1000 a month for a server to handle the user count.

    I will need to start with a VPS and then move up from there as things grow. Right or wrong most of the info I am finding says I cannot do that with AA and keep the site running. I even read in another thread where some are seeing AA bog way down when running xbasic and using some of my existing xbasic would be the only major perk moving forward with AA.
    I wanted to comment on the topic of concurrent users. Clearly it depends on the complexity of the app, the design of the app, the design of the database and the kind of server you are using. Nothing in this statement if Alpha specific btw.

    What I can say is that we have numerous SaaS apps built in Alpha that are running with very good performance and using a small amount of server power.
    For example www.petsitclick.com has approximately 15000 users on the system during the day and they are running off 3 servers and a load balancer.

    In addition because of the design of upcoming IIS plugin - http://www.alphasoftware.com/iis/ you will see very significant performance enhancements.

    If you want us to take look at what you are doing to troubleshoot your app - please let me know at [email protected]
    Richard Rabins
    Co Chairman
    Alpha Software

    Comment


      #47
      Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

      I am not a wndev/webdev fan

      Https://www.petsitclick.com

      57% seo ranking of a possible 100

      Alexa rank
      762288th most visited website in the world.
      197856th most visited website in United States is not real bad considering the SEO score.

      Http server : Alpha Anywhere Application Server Application Server/12.0 Build/2689-4440
      Technology : Unknown

      However, could not test speed of alpha and databases here. It must be in the background. The pages are built using html prior to html5.

      Used a free seo tool here http://www.site-analyzer.com/ that gets a lot of good information to you.
      Last edited by DaveM; 06-26-2015, 07:08 PM.
      Dave Mason
      [email protected]
      Skype is dave.mason46

      Comment


        #48
        Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

        Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
        I wanted to comment on the topic of concurrent users. Clearly it depends on the complexity of the app, the design of the app, the design of the database and the kind of server you are using. Nothing in this statement if Alpha specific btw.

        What I can say is that we have numerous SaaS apps built in Alpha that are running with very good performance and using a small amount of server power.
        For example www.petsitclick.com has approximately 15000 users on the system during the day and they are running off 3 servers and a load balancer.

        In addition because of the design of upcoming IIS plugin - http://www.alphasoftware.com/iis/ you will see very significant performance enhancements.

        If you want us to take look at what you are doing to troubleshoot your app - please let me know at [email protected]
        Naturally it depends on complexity of the app. I am currently using A5 V11 for my desktop app. I had wanted to make a SaaS web version of the apps concept and had started a subscription to AA last year but I had some bad experiences with Alpha preferred developers trying to get something going.

        Then I had a family emergency which forced me to cancel my subscription. I am now trying to build my app on my own because I can no longer afford to hire some help. That said, with the other development platforms I am looking at I can use them for as long as I need and develop my app for no up front cost. I would just need to pay for the system when I was ready to deploy.

        I cannot afford an AA subscription right now and I do not know if I would want to pay for one given that people are telling me the Alpha WAS starts slowing down at 10 concurrent users and comes to a halt at 30. True or not I cannot afford to risk it on the off chance it is true.

        My app would be an SaaS that needs to perform some very complex logic and math anytime any value is changed. It is not a simple matter of taking a product price and multiplying it by the number ordered.

        My expectations would be to have a max of 500 users per server without the need for a special high priced server to start with.

        The other issue is I could ask for a trial period for AA but I doubt I would get anywhere within the 30 day trial period and again I cannot afford to subscribe just to see if AA will do what I need to get done. I am more familiar with Alpha and would prefer to use it if it will do the job but I just cannot afford to subscribe to it right now to find out.

        As it stands I am going through tutorials on two other development systems that have no time limit on the trial and the first one that starts making sense to me and delivers the best look and feel will win. I will then start saving my nickles to buy a license for the winner.

        Comment


          #49
          Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

          Preston, you are not alone.
          In my situation, I subscribed for alpha AA to take advantage of all upcoming new feature and technologies. At that time alpha’s add-ons where expensive and sold separate, also many common and popular functionalists where not included with the main IDE. Then, I agreed and subscribed to AA. Under one year of my subscription, I am told that I will never get the SaaS functionality without paying $1000 and now, they are promoting to sale the IIS functionality for $1000, too.

          What is the advantage of subscribing?
          Yes, there are some small additional functionalists and bug fixes that subscribers get, but when it comes to best functionalists, Alpha never give you without getting a $1000 dollars from you.

          Don’t get me wrong, AA is a nice tool, but I think PCSOFT (windev) may become a killer developer’s tool.
          When I see PC-Soft software's V20 , I'm blown away.

          Watch-out AA!!
          {

          Comment


            #50
            Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

            Originally posted by preston2 View Post
            Naturally it depends on complexity of the app. I am currently using A5 V11 for my desktop app. I had wanted to make a SaaS web version of the apps concept and had started a subscription to AA last year but I had some bad experiences with Alpha preferred developers trying to get something going.

            Then I had a family emergency which forced me to cancel my subscription. I am now trying to build my app on my own because I can no longer afford to hire some help. That said, with the other development platforms I am looking at I can use them for as long as I need and develop my app for no up front cost. I would just need to pay for the system when I was ready to deploy.

            I cannot afford an AA subscription right now and I do not know if I would want to pay for one given that people are telling me the Alpha WAS starts slowing down at 10 concurrent users and comes to a halt at 30. True or not I cannot afford to risk it on the off chance it is true.

            My app would be an SaaS that needs to perform some very complex logic and math anytime any value is changed. It is not a simple matter of taking a product price and multiplying it by the number ordered.

            My expectations would be to have a max of 500 users per server without the need for a special high priced server to start with.

            The other issue is I could ask for a trial period for AA but I doubt I would get anywhere within the 30 day trial period and again I cannot afford to subscribe just to see if AA will do what I need to get done. I am more familiar with Alpha and would prefer to use it if it will do the job but I just cannot afford to subscribe to it right now to find out.

            As it stands I am going through tutorials on two other development systems that have no time limit on the trial and the first one that starts making sense to me and delivers the best look and feel will win. I will then start saving my nickles to buy a license for the winner.
            If you need to extend your trial - we can accommodate - just email [email protected] and he will assist you
            Richard Rabins
            Co Chairman
            Alpha Software

            Comment


              #51
              Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

              Originally posted by Ferenju View Post
              Preston, you are not alone.
              In my situation, I subscribed for alpha AA to take advantage of all upcoming new feature and technologies. At that time alpha’s add-ons where expensive and sold separate, also many common and popular functionalists where not included with the main IDE. Then, I agreed and subscribed to AA. Under one year of my subscription, I am told that I will never get the SaaS functionality without paying $1000 and now, they are promoting to sale the IIS functionality for $1000, too.

              What is the advantage of subscribing?
              Yes, there are some small additional functionalists and bug fixes that subscribers get, but when it comes to best functionalists, Alpha never give you without getting a $1000 dollars from you.

              Don’t get me wrong, AA is a nice tool, but I think PCSOFT (windev) may become a killer developer’s tool.
              When I see PC-Soft software's V20 , I'm blown away.

              Watch-out AA!!
              I have to take exception to your comment "Yes, there are some small additional functionalists and bug fixes that subscribers get,..."

              Check this page out for what has been added over time to AA

              http://www.alphasoftware.com/innovation.asp

              Also we have a new release coming in the next 30-45 days with a lot of important functionality (it has been in pre-release for some time and has been available to subscribers for some time)
              Richard Rabins
              Co Chairman
              Alpha Software

              Comment


                #52
                Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                Originally posted by Ferenju View Post

                What is the advantage of subscribing?
                Yes, there are some small additional functionalists and bug fixes that subscribers get, but when it comes to best functionalists, Alpha never give you without getting a $1000 dollars from you.

                Don’t get me wrong, AA is a nice tool, but I think PCSOFT (windev) may become a killer developer’s tool.
                When I see PC-Soft software's V20 , I'm blown away.
                When I saw that WebDev 20 had a SaaS server built in (not sure if it is in the developer or the WAS) I too became very excited.

                The drawback with the PC Soft stuff is they have it separated into 3 different development systems. But the cost of their WAS is extremely low.

                I have not totally discounted Alpha but I have to take a strong look at the others. When I first tried WinDev it was version 17 and I hated the console but the console in 19 is quite nice. On the other side of the fence, Alpha brings familiarity but still would require a hefty learning curve to go from desktop apps to web apps.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                  Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
                  If you need to extend your trial - we can accommodate - just email [email protected] and he will assist you
                  Thanks Richard, I may do that.

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                    Originally posted by preston2 View Post
                    No, I have just downloaded WinDev Express version 19 and I am downloading WinDev Mobile Express version 19.

                    You are correct that they do not offer an express version of WebDev.

                    My understanding though is if I develop something in WinDev and then decide to purchase WinDev and WebDev that all I need to do is have WebDev compile the app and code I wrote in WinDev. What I am reading on their site is basically develop it in WinDev and then use WebDev and WinDev Mobile to deploy it onto the web and mobile devices.

                    Just started reading the docs and tutorial stuff. Version 19 seems to be a lot different than version 17 and on initial observation the development console looks a lot better.

                    If I can learn it and get some things to work, I may just buy the suite as I am very interested in the built in SaaS tools in version 20.

                    According to the Concepts_WinDev.pdf, All the elements, except for the GUI (pages and windows) are 100% compatible and shareable among the WinDev, WebDev and WinDev Mobile projects. Which to me means all I would have to do is create different pages for each deployment method and I am cool with that.
                    If you can write it all in Windev why do they sell Webdev there is no SAAS project choice in Windev and deploy is a different package.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                      Originally posted by bea2701 View Post
                      If you can write it all in Windev why do they sell Webdev there is no SAAS project choice in Windev and deploy is a different package.
                      Do not know the exact answer to that right now. They just say all code is compatible between the 3 products except for the GUI's. But that is not the point for me. There is no express version of WebDev so I have to try out their stuff using WinDev express. That said if I do get a base for my app developed in WinDev express, I can then pull all that work into WebDev to complete the project and get it ready to deploy. If all I had was 30 days to try WinDev then I do not think I would learn enough about it to make a decision about buying it or not. Because I can use WinDev for as long as I need, I can learn it at my own pace. Right now I do not know if I will go with Alpha, InDe or PC Soft but so far I am liking what I see in WinDev.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                        Originally posted by bea2701 View Post
                        If you can write it all in Windev why do they sell Webdev there is no SAAS project choice in Windev and deploy is a different package.
                        Eric,
                        You can't write it all using one of the application. But you can convert one of your project to another to save time. Remember you may be required to clean up your code after conversion depends on your first project setup/code. but it may save you lots of time.
                        Windev, windev-mobile and webdev are stand alone applications each on for targeted purpose.
                        {

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                          One thing that Windev company has make it right is that they have three separate products: desktop, web and mobile versions.
                          And they are all developed further also desktop version.
                          Maybe it is time to look at mirror. Do we all do mobile?

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                            Originally posted by kkfin View Post
                            One thing that Windev company has make it right is that they have three separate products: desktop, web and mobile versions.
                            And they are all developed further also desktop version.
                            Maybe it is time to look at mirror. Do we all do mobile?
                            My mailbox says "Renew your license now and order before date xxxx save $1000,00" for the soon to be released IIS-plugin normal an optional add-in.
                            Are feature packs coming back? Introduction of a new Sales line = Subscription + feature packs
                            if correct then Ken made a statement.
                            Last edited by bea2701; 06-29-2015, 01:59 AM.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                              Originally posted by bea2701 View Post
                              My mailbox says "Renew your license now and order before date xxxx save $1000,00" for the soon to be released IIS-plugin normal an optional add-in.
                              Are feature packs coming back? Introduction of a new Sales line = Subscription + feature packs
                              if correct then Ken made a statement.
                              YES, as far as I know!
                              The first feature pack that alpha released was the SaaS framework for $999.
                              Both SaaS and IIS suppose to be part of the subscribers benefit and those should be available to everyone who has active subscription.
                              {

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                                Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                                Ferenju, my point is that a list of great features is one thing. How it all works in development and the real world is another.
                                Peter,

                                You made a very, very good point. My experience is that all or nearly all software is like that, including Alpha. I find that most frustrating and considerably time consuming with Alpha. I really like a lot of Alpha's features, but implementing them is another story. I've yet to find any documentation from "Anyone" that even begins to show the ins and outs of AA. Example: Alpha hasn't even begun to tap the many ways grids can be used, which I find short sited on Alpha's part. After a LOT of experimenting, I finally came up with a visual solution using 3 tables, having access to all the fields in each table and show them all on a 12" screen. For me, the result is amazing but it took me many months to get there.

                                The time it takes to explore is considerable and really, really negates rapid designing using Alpha. Most apps demand otherwise. With Alpha, one can get there from here, but first, must cross the desert and then wade through the jungle. Having lots of great features is wonderful but using them is another story, even with Alpha.

                                I have a love/hate attitude with Alpha but the thought of embarking on a new tool is more that I want to take on at this time. I just don't have the time for even a moderate learning curve. Alpha has the potential to be a fabulous tool, but that will never happen unless a commitment is made to much better documentation such as showing the possible ways grids can be used. The videos are great but much too abrupt. Showing a quick, basic way to do something is not the real world. Using the feature is quite another story.
                                TYVM :) kenn

                                Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

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