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Windev 20 vs alpha v12

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    #31
    Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

    Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
    Preston, as you know, InDe is $$$ these days. I worked with it for a month. Went through the tutorial, began to learn how to apply (code) security. InDe is an interesting product, but not at all intuitive. I felt the learning curve was too steep given all the Alpha work I have to support.
    True Peter, the learning curve is steep. As for the $$$, depends on how you look at it. Unlimited apps on unlimited servers versus buying a lot of WAS's.

    Again the issue I have is the only info I can get is AA will crawl at a very low concurrent user number unless you throw a fortune 500 companies budget at servers and things. Fine and dandy if you are building apps for large enterprise companies but not if you are trying to get your own SaaS solution off the ground. I would not be able to afford paying Zebrahost $500 to $1000 a month for a server to handle the user count.

    I will need to start with a VPS and then move up from there as things grow. Right or wrong most of the info I am finding says I cannot do that with AA and keep the site running. I even read in another thread where some are seeing AA bog way down when running xbasic and using some of my existing xbasic would be the only major perk moving forward with AA.

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

      Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
      Preston, as you know, InDe is $$$ these days. I worked with it for a month. Went through the tutorial, began to learn how to apply (code) security. InDe is an interesting product, but not at all intuitive. I felt the learning curve was too steep given all the Alpha work I have to support.
      I think you gave up too soon on INDE. As you must have realized, Alpha and Inde are two radically different approaches; they are on two very different levels. Alpha way of thinking and Xbasic are absolutely not transferable, hence it is going to take a bit more time than 1 month. Had you persevered, you would be on a different planet today, I can't say more on this board.

      As for Price, it really depends on your situation as Preston hinted.
      If you are a casual developer that develops 1 App per year or two, Alpha is cheaper. However, if you develop and sell 2 or more Apps a year, Inde is cheaper:
      -there is no WAS to buy. Get the developer version (freelance price) build, sell & install as many Apps as the market can bear at no additional cost
      -you do not need pricey VPS; my Apps are hosted on a $12/mth 2GB of RAM self managed VPS. With Alpha I used to pay $38/mth
      -the same way Alpha offers deals behind the scenes, Inde also offers group discount behind the scenes.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

        Originally posted by gaby_h View Post
        I think you gave up too soon on INDE. As you must have realized, Alpha and Inde are two radically different approaches; they are on two very different levels. Alpha way of thinking and Xbasic are absolutely not transferable, hence it is going to take a bit more time than 1 month. Had you persevered, you would be on a different planet today, I can't say more on this board.

        As for Price, it really depends on your situation as Preston hinted.
        If you are a casual developer that develops 1 App per year or two, Alpha is cheaper. However, if you develop and sell 2 or more Apps a year, Inde is cheaper:
        -there is no WAS to buy. Get the developer version (freelance price) build, sell & install as many Apps as the market can bear at no additional cost
        -you do not need pricey VPS; my Apps are hosted on a $12/mth 2GB of RAM self managed VPS. With Alpha I used to pay $38/mth
        -the same way Alpha offers deals behind the scenes, Inde also offers group discount behind the scenes.
        InDe is built around dot net 2.0. I do not see any reason why? It is basically from 2005. If I think what steps InDe has had last year and compare to Alpha I must say Alpha has taken much more interesting steps forward. Anything you can do with Nodejs you can do now with Alpha. You can use any javascript framework or any javascript solution with Alpha and for example MongoDb (noSQL) is already integrated thanks Nodejs. You can todays Alpha Anywhere build totally your own solutions and it allows it or if you want to hammer you head with components and wonder where to but checkboxes and so on Alpha allows that too.

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

          Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post

          Ken, I'm really curious how, or even why, you use Alpha? You don't use components, you don't use security, you don't use xbasic. So what part of Alpha do you use?
          I am using good parts. If I want to use nice urls like ...#!/tool/group/44567?q=456 I can not use security.

          What benefits I do get using components. Only component to consider is in fact ux-component but the most simple solution is abous 1200 lines of code in browsers source view???. I get headache when I even think where to put everything in components and wondering how it works. Too complicated to me. And if I use UX then I am basically stuck with its javascript, css and so on... So code editor is enough to me and I do use xbasic a lot but I would use just javascript if it would be possible. Now I use xbasic to produce mostly javascript and to start javascript process. So I am coding xbasic to get javascript. Why?? Why xbasic middleware? Any benefits?

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

            Originally posted by JerryBrightbill View Post
            If you can provide an example of the security causing a slowdown, we would certainly like to see it. While every request goes through the security check, extensive testing has shown the security check takes between 7 and 11 milliseconds, while some could actually be less.
            Glad to hear that there is no problems in security regarding performance.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

              Originally posted by kkfin View Post
              I am using good parts. If I want to use nice urls like ...#!/tool/group/44567?q=456 I can not use security.

              What benefits I do get using components. Only component to consider is in fact ux-component but the most simple solution is abous 1200 lines of code in browsers source view???. I get headache when I even think where to put everything in components and wondering how it works. Too complicated to me. And if I use UX then I am basically stuck with its javascript, css and so on... So code editor is enough to me and I do use xbasic a lot but I would use just javascript if it would be possible. Now I use xbasic to produce mostly javascript and to start javascript process. So I am coding xbasic to get javascript. Why?? Why xbasic middleware? Any benefits?
              Thanks for the clarification. Now I have at least a conceptual understanding of what you are doing.
              Peter
              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

              [email protected]
              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


              Comment


                #37
                Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                Hi,
                From the documentation it seems windev is for desktop development. For web development they have webdev. Webdev does not seem to be as easy as alpha in matter of databases applications...
                the mobile part (windev mobile) seems better than alpha since it has direct access to sql lite (installed on the mobile). The local storage of alpha is not so robust for offline Enterprise apps.
                Has anyone developed something with webdev?

                Regards.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                  Paul,
                  Did you see some of the videos that are found here http://www.windev.com/pcsoft/videos.html#liste ?
                  Even if they are old you can see the power of webdev. Also, you can find many videos on youtube (in English, french and other languages) use the youtube video translator to watch them with (subtitle), I find that feature very useful. I never used webdev but it looks like from the videos that i seen, it does a better job than alpha's approach building websites. currently, I am looking into the users and authentication section of webdev. so far, I am amazed by it.
                  {

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                    Here is the English language video channel on you-tube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTf...rEPgIDdQ7qnP3A
                    {

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                      I looked at windev a while back and if I were making a webpage selling widgets, it might be just fine.

                      But I write apps in Alpha Anywhere (xbasic) that do, accounting, HR, Clock IN/OUT via mobile, near real time synchronization from self hosted MS SQL to cloud hosted MySQL, and many other logically complex operations.

                      Can windev do all of that? I can find no evidence that it can.

                      So...what kind of webpage are you making? How complex is it? Must it automatically resize itself based on the device it's on? Can it work OFFLINE? :)

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                        Just reading the info on WinDev again. It seems to say that you develop using WinDev and then you can recompile for web and/or mobile using WebDev and WinDev Mobile. So it seems like you write the code once and then can use it for desktop, web or mobile.

                        I will look at it again and see if I have any better luck following the tutorial then I did when the express was version 17.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                          Originally posted by PaulAmmoun View Post
                          Hi,

                          Has anyone developed something with webdev?

                          Regards.
                          Check 100's of sites on this link http://www.windev.com/webdev/list-of-sites.html
                          Some of them are poorly designed though.
                          {

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                            Preston, do you mean you have a copy of WebDev, for they don't have an express version for that hence not sure how you will test this....
                            Regards,

                            Kotin Karwak
                            Developer Edition
                            Version 12.3 Build 2684
                            System Addins: Build 4438
                            Build machine Windows Vista
                            Skype: mateso08

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                              Originally posted by kotinkarwak View Post
                              Preston, do you mean you have a copy of WebDev, for they don't have an express version for that hence not sure how you will test this....
                              No, I have just downloaded WinDev Express version 19 and I am downloading WinDev Mobile Express version 19.

                              You are correct that they do not offer an express version of WebDev.

                              My understanding though is if I develop something in WinDev and then decide to purchase WinDev and WebDev that all I need to do is have WebDev compile the app and code I wrote in WinDev. What I am reading on their site is basically develop it in WinDev and then use WebDev and WinDev Mobile to deploy it onto the web and mobile devices.

                              Just started reading the docs and tutorial stuff. Version 19 seems to be a lot different than version 17 and on initial observation the development console looks a lot better.

                              If I can learn it and get some things to work, I may just buy the suite as I am very interested in the built in SaaS tools in version 20.

                              According to the Concepts_WinDev.pdf, All the elements, except for the GUI (pages and windows) are 100% compatible and shareable among the WinDev, WebDev and WinDev Mobile projects. Which to me means all I would have to do is create different pages for each deployment method and I am cool with that.
                              Last edited by preston2; 06-25-2015, 03:55 PM.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Windev 20 vs alpha v12

                                Originally posted by PaulAmmoun View Post
                                Hi,
                                From the documentation it seems windev is for desktop development. For web development they have webdev. Webdev does not seem to be as easy as alpha in matter of databases applications...
                                the mobile part (windev mobile) seems better than alpha since it has direct access to sql lite (installed on the mobile). The local storage of alpha is not so robust for offline Enterprise apps.
                                Has anyone developed something with webdev?

                                Regards.
                                Alpha Anywhere will soon be supporting the file system on mobile devices so the amount of data - especially media - that can be stored when offline will go up by orders of magnitude. Also when synching up after connection is restored - you will have the option of sending the media files to S3 and just sending a link back to the server

                                Also have you see what is coming in mobile in ALpha? check this out

                                Tablet optimized apps for stand-up workers

                                Soon, Alpha Anywhere will make it extremely quick and easy to build apps that are optimized for field workers in industry, government and health care whose job requires them to work standing up most of the time.

                                Learn more http://www.alphasoftware.com/blog/2-...ess-computing/

                                see video by Dan Bricklin Alpha CTO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrl_...ature=youtu.be
                                Richard Rabins
                                Co Chairman
                                Alpha Software

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