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Thread: Runtime size comparison

  1. #31
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Well I suppose that's one way to get DT people into Web apps.
    I'd prefer not to mix the two styles though.
    Just my preference, but then I don't use Alpha for Web, only DT which is what it is excellent at doing.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    I leave out the NOdeJS folders, all sql folders, and a few more
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    i am curious about this thread, so i have few questions, obviously.
    why should 512mb runtime files should bother anybody when average computer comes with 500GB storage and 4MB memory and programs are distributed via download or dvd disk?
    why should someone knowingly upgrade to version 12 when there is no improvement on the desktop side, so nothing gained except for the headache of license expiry, renewal, subscription etc.,?

    nodeJs offers a lot of potential, like live messaging to all users on the network, push notifications, watch for events and update certain "WALL" and all of these can be placed inside a desktop form as web content frame ( yes you can also have a static html file and show that via the web content, but node js can inject content into the html file). say the manager wants to inform rest of the gang they can send push notification or put up a message broadcasting to everyone to do certain thing, like closing their terminal for one, to do the update. you can add chat feature to your desktop and the users can send and receive messages to each other, asking questions on the fly and getting answers.

    all these can be done without nodeJs as part of the alpha installation, i agree. but alpha has included the hook to integrate nodeJS within alpha that is a real hard work, may be it is better to take advantage of that rather than discard after paying for it, is that not logical?

    i do not work on the desktop side, i do not even have version 12 on top of that, so i don't have extensive knowledge or a sample workspace to experiment. i just tested my chat module on independent nodeJs installation incorporating into a dummy form. it seems to work. so the above came from that (besides the fact that i like nodeJS), not based on personal experience on a desktop application.
    Last edited by GGandhi; 10-19-2016 at 08:04 AM.
    thanks for reading

    gandhi

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  4. #34
    "Certified" Alphaholic Stan Mathews's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    why should someone knowingly upgrade to version 12 when there is no improvement on the desktop side
    I believe it was marketed as being necessary to upgrade in order to be compatible with Win 10.
    There can be only one.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    i have version 11 and it looks like developer works without a problem in widows 10. the working preview on the web side does not work, i use live preview. i do not know what all the stuff do not work on the desktop side because of my lack of knowledge.
    thanks for reading

    gandhi

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  6. #36
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Stan is correct Govindan, the upgrade to V12 was indeed marketed as a fix for V11 not working on Win10, however, as you found out, V11, and 10.5 run fine on Win10.
    See my PM regarding Working Preview.
    Ted Giles
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Unfortunately, once you edit a form in v12 you cannot go back to v11 - so something was changed...
    Robin

    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

  8. #38
    "Certified" Alphaholic Ted Giles's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Call me cynical but.......
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    JUst got a new computer with 2T HD. I don't like having almost half the drive taken by one application. Clients don't either.
    Runtime and dev need to be only what is needed for the resultant application. NO more.
    I don't send the runtime to clients Typically. I send a copy with all out that I can safely remove. and then register the files using the installer similar to what alpha does.
    Last edited by DaveM; 10-19-2016 at 02:39 PM.
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  10. #40
    "Certified" Alphaholic MoGrace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Dave,
    Could you print out a directory list of your runtime files to a text file and upload it here?

    What's the old DOS command... ?
    Robin

    Discernment is not needed in things that differ, but in those things that appear to be the same. - Miles Sanford

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    I could but I removed the latest patch & reinstalled the original v12 runtime. This one has over 240 pages of files......

    I am sure the v12 runtime with latest patch would have more pages.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    JUst got a new computer with 2T HD. I don't like having almost half the drive taken by one application
    boy, that size really means terra to a t. 1000 GB for just a program imagine with the data.
    thanks for reading

    gandhi

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  13. #43
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    FOLDERS INcluded in my installs
    a5css
    amyuni 3 of them
    caroot
    css
    dockpanels
    report styles
    stylesheet bitmaps
    Themes
    I have also removed some in needed files from the install.
    Dave Mason
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  14. #44
    Former Alpha Employee JerryBrightbill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Some years ago, we noticed a trend where some developers started using xdialogs on the desktop for forms because they are "disconnected" in behavior as they are not tied to an underlying table and can stand alone. Most of the forms and genies in Alpha Anywhere are actually xdialog.

    Xdialogs are very powerful, but hard to build as they must be completely coded. Starting in Alpha Five V10, we added some support for using web components on the desktop as an alternative. But support was limited until Alpha Anywhere. There was extensive work done in Alpha Anywhere to support web forms on the desktop.

    We have found a number of desktop application developers have moved from xdialogs to web components. One reason is they can use SQL based data much easier as SQL support in web forms is more direct than active link tables and much faster when used in the desktop. While the dbf format is fast and stable, it does have limitations, and developers are moving toward more powerful data engines such as MySQl and MS SQLServer for larger data sets

    Some developers are using web forms on the desktop for hybrid applications that have both desktop and web elements.

    Those are some reasons all of the browser support exists in the runtime.

    There are also extensive additions to support SQL based data. This can be very useful even if you are not using Active Link tables. For example, many users are not aware they can create a SQL connection to an Excel spreadsheet and then treat the spreadsheet like a "database". This is extremely powerful for import / export operations.

    If you are using legacy dbf and standard forms and browses, many of these features aren't required. But they do allow many new options to enhance the desktop experience, and we do have end users making use of these features.

  15. #45
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Thank you JERRY for the explanation. It helps!
    Dave Mason
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  16. #46
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    FOLDERS INcluded in my installs
    a5css
    amyuni 3 of them
    caroot
    css
    dockpanels
    Dave,

    This post is a bit old, but if you see please respond and thank you!

    Do you also remove some of the files in the runtime folder such as:

    A5InstallMySQLConnector.exe, A5SQLDB... stuff, dotNet files, install_node_modules.exe, phantomjs.exe, etc...
    if not needed in the desktop runtime using .dbf files?

    I haven't tried, but figured some of this stuff would not be needed. I figured I'd have to test my apps by removing one at a time.

    I wish Alpha Software would create a compiler of sorts that could examine your app for all scripts and functions and ON.. events and then only add what runtime stuff that was needed for your app. This would create a much more efficient app and without a huge install file...sweet indeed, but a dream I know!

    Anyway, I always appreciate what I can glean from this forum!

  17. #47
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Robert, you are on the right track.
    I leave out every one you listed with no issues so far. Still a large install.
    Dave Mason
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  18. #48
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    Default Re: Runtime size comparison

    Okay Dave thanks! Glad to know I'm going in the right direction.

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